smokey
1 post
Jul 24, 2006
8:01 PM
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having troble finding whites that will roll is this comen or am i just looking in wrong places also pros/cons i love watching them in the sky. nube to rollers smokey
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gle619
4 posts
Jul 24, 2006
8:28 PM
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You're just looking in the wrong places. I've owned many white selfs that rolled DEEP back in the early 90's.
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J_Star
532 posts
Jul 25, 2006
4:58 AM
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I have a few that I treasure. They are double grizzles. Some have red spots but will disappear comes moult time and some are just pure whites. They all have pearl eyes.
Jay
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siddiqir
247 posts
Jul 25, 2006
7:23 AM
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I get few whites off Mee family but they are not *pure* white. They look nice in the air.
Last Edited by siddiqir on Jul 25, 2006 7:23 AM
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Ballrollers
416 posts
Jul 25, 2006
7:46 AM
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Smokey,
My good friend, Wendall Carter, of Greensboro, North Carolina has a "White Lightning" kit of homzygous grizzles (all whites) of his Jake 'n Bakes (Jaconette/Baker cross). They roll deep and fast and we'll see them in the Fall Fly this year. You might contact him. I'm sure he would consider raising some late hatches for you.
YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jul 25, 2006 7:47 AM
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smokey
2 posts
Jul 25, 2006
5:50 PM
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thanks for input ballroller how do i get info on this gentelmen email phone#. i would like couple pairs the whites i have need the company smokey hello everyone thanks for comments
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Ballrollers
426 posts
Jul 25, 2006
7:00 PM
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Smokey,
That's Wendall Carter,
jake1bake@yahoo.com
That's a "one" between "jake' and "bake"! If you have any trouble with e-mail, let me know and I'll get you his phone number.
YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jul 25, 2006 7:01 PM
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ROLLERMAN
38 posts
Jul 25, 2006
7:19 PM
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I HAVE TWO PURE WHITE MASONS I BREED THIS YEAR.THERE OUT OF A BLACK & WHITE HEN AND A WHITE TICKED COCK.THESE THE 1ST WHITES OUT OF THIS PAIR IN 8 YEARS AND OVER 50 YOUNG. JUST HAVE TO SEE HOW THEY TURN OUT. NICE SMALL BIRDS .THERE OUT OF MY BEST PAIR
AL
Last Edited by ROLLERMAN on Jul 25, 2006 7:22 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
245 posts
Jul 26, 2006
4:40 AM
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I have three so far this year. Seems to all be pearl eyes or all ready are. For some reason, they have all ways been pearl eyes (white selves). Every white bred from this line that I have seen are on the hot to over cooked side. All have been deep and usually kills itself if hits some thing on accident.
I have a crazy thought that if I ever breed one with Orange eyes, they will be more stable and hence be a keeper. Only time will tell.
On a side note, I have broken up the pairs this year that threw the white selves, one particular pair threw one in every round. Don't know why some one would want White selves but my experience tells me they will eventually kill themselves. Waste of time as I say. Time well spent breeding and flying some thing else.
The ones I bred this year are from Red Grizzle x Black Grizzle pairings. Double factor grizzles as they say.
When the weather cools off alittle, I'll take photos of these 3 left.
White selves with pearl eyes... too hot if you asked me.
Thor
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J_Star
539 posts
Jul 26, 2006
6:51 AM
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Thor, being too hot is possible that in your family of birds. In mine, they are stable with multible depth, H pattern and about 20' to 35'. Look at Cliff's post in regard to his frind with the White Lightning family he has of stable and high performance whites. Pensom had a pure white cock that rocked the skies and so do we.
I really don't think color has to do anything with performance. Maybe color balancing to some extent. If the family of birds has the gene of excellence, then the majority of the offspring will demonstarate that in their own perfomance. As always, breeding two hot birds together will yeild too much heat and that is in every family.
Rollerman, writing in caps indicate shouting. Please use your lower case caps when posting. Thanks.
Cliff, is the Jaconette side in the Jake n Bake family from Danny Horner line? Just curious!!
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jul 26, 2006 7:03 AM
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Ballrollers
427 posts
Jul 26, 2006
8:15 AM
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Jay,
No, he got them straight from Richard Jaconette, before Danny Horner had really established his success with the family. He got two birds from Richard and two from Roger Baker, as his foundation birds. A couple years later, Rick Mee selected one of the birds Wendall raised, a red grizzle, as one of the foundation birds for his family.
YITS, Cliff
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smokey
4 posts
Jul 27, 2006
5:44 PM
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Cliff sent email this evening waiting for his reply thankyou i hope to hear from him soon smokey
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Mongrel Lofts
199 posts
Jul 28, 2006
9:32 AM
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Smokey,
Why are you looking for white rollers? Is it about the color or lack of it in this case? I'm always a little set back when I see guys looking for certain colors and breeding for them. Trying to find and breed really good rollers is tuff!!! Breeding for certain color's and patterns seams to go against the pursuit of first class rollers.. Always interested to know if its the roll or the color that one is breeding for first when searching out certain colors. I would think one would find the best rollers he could see roll.. Breed them and whatever color they happen to be, that is the color of your good spinners.. If they happen to be white,, Great! But if they happen to be red bars, I would think the spin would dictate the color.. Not the color would dictate my choice and then try and make them spin..
Good Luck in your search for whites Smokey.. I hope you don't find my questions offensive.. I sure don't mean them to be.. Mongrel Lofts
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
115 posts
Jul 28, 2006
9:43 AM
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Mongrel, well said , i couldn't agree with you any more. The spin first.
Smokey-- you could make your whites out of grizzles but the spin gene is the main factor.
R-Luna
Last Edited by GREED FOR SPEED LOFT on Jul 28, 2006 9:44 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
246 posts
Jul 28, 2006
10:32 AM
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Jay,
I can second it that all the white's (selves) that I have seen or bred from this family can rocket it. That is the problem. They don't live too long because if any makes even a single mistake, they are done for by their own velocity/means.
I know color has little to do with it. It's not so much the color but what I have observed and written down in the record books. If you breed about 4 to 5 a year (white selves) from various different pairings or one single pairing and say all either killed themselves or sustainned crippling injuries for a number of years now, wouldn't it be a good guess that any future youngster with the same color would end up with the same feat? It is like saying that if you breed about 4 to 5 white ticks from various different pairings and all will make the grade, wouldn't it be safe to say that any future ones will end up with the same feat. Say if I bred a round from this pair and one is a white tick and the other was a white self, I can put my money on the white tick as a sure bet.
Color has little to do with it but for some reason, they seem to line up the genetics in a certain order when say a white self is bred. Just my crazy belief. I don't grade any bird on it's color but it has been some thing I have observed in the family of birds I am working with. Yet even tho it has been observed time and time again, I still fly these darn critters out.
Here is the kick tho, all of which that is breeding these white selves has been line bred off a Stan Plona White Self band number '79 PRC 14686. It's brother/nest mate '79 PRC 14687 seem to carry such color in it's linage as well. Both are being line bred by me and show that the line can both produce white selves. Either line has yet to produced a white self living past the one year mark. None have rolled down but have caused their demised by rolling into something/bumping hard, some instantly some being maimed.
I am still waiting for a stockable white self but like I said, unless one pops up with some thing other then pearl eyes, it seems hopeless. Hell, I'll stock any thing bred by me or someone I trust if it carries all what I am looking for in a BR.
Not a color breeder but a breeder of best to best.
Thor
P.S. I was looking at Dave S.'s auction (NBRC) and he had a White Self Cock. Is it me or does that bird have Yellow eyes? If so, that seems to confirm my crazy belief that if any White Self carrying any thing else but pearl eyes has the protential of making it.
P.S.S. These birds of ours seem to be able to produce alot of varying colors. No need to breed for any certain colors as they will pop up regardless. If you bird carries the genes, it will crop up.
P.S.S.S. I am curious to know what eye color was Stan Plona's White Self '79 PRC 14686?
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on Jul 28, 2006 10:38 AM
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smokey
5 posts
Jul 28, 2006
7:43 PM
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my reason for wanting whites is just personali like pure white pigeons i have had white homers and white budapest in the past and it just sortof stays with me.my dad raised many diff types of pigeons of all colors.i useto drive him crazy with whites as well. thanks for chatting in vermont smokey
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smokey
7 posts
Jul 29, 2006
7:20 PM
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question when you let out young birds for first time what should i xpect to see i have land on roof and short flights around yard thanks smokey
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parlorfancier916
119 posts
Jul 29, 2006
7:55 PM
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um.. wondering... are you a color breeder? or a performance standard breeder? I mean what's the point of getting white rollers that'll merely flip? why not get some good performers?
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gle619
5 posts
Jul 29, 2006
8:45 PM
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parlor, there is not point in getting white rollers that just flip, smokey made this post for his quest in finding white rollers that indeed roll. I dont think hes a "color" breeder just that he moreso has a preference in white rollers. Their is a definite difference in a Color breeder and a person who has a preference over certain colors. id also like to add that White rollers, can roll, i dont think color has to do any with rolling ability. back in the 90's I had bull eye'd White self rollers that rolled with the best.
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smokey
8 posts
Jul 30, 2006
6:33 AM
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thanks gle619 i wish i would have thought to put it that way. i just like a couple of white rollers that spin so i can enjoy them in the sky in my own backyard.this is a great site hope i can fit in with my whites. smokey
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ROLLERMAN
39 posts
Jul 30, 2006
2:51 PM
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Smokey
Some one just won two birds off dave szabatura from new york on the nbrc auction they bid $490.00 for the pair and the cock was a white self, In the write up for the birds dave said that he had 5 birds from this cock in his a team. all you have to do is check his flying record to see he has some very good birds, So there are some good white selfs out there, There not all junk as some would Lead you to believe.
al
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Mount Airy Lofts
248 posts
Jul 30, 2006
3:31 PM
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No one said White Self rollers can't roll. Actually, it is the total opposite. Their white featherings seem to blurr them out more so then a darker bird. Their style seem to be clearer and faster as well because of the white feathering.
My question is for the White Self *breeding quality - bird, is it able to reproduce it's color. The ones I get, I doubt they are able but then again, I have not tried such a bird in the pen.
Thor
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smokey
9 posts
Jul 30, 2006
7:43 PM
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it is my belief that if you have white cock and hen that are selfs they will throw only white selfs .this is the way it worked in my other breeds. smokey
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nodoze
1 post
Jul 30, 2006
8:44 PM
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Smokey, there are some very good spinning white selfs out there. I have seen them and have own them. Good luck in finding them. Just keep looking and inquiring and you will shurely find them
Bobby
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smokey
10 posts
Aug 01, 2006
4:43 AM
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hay bobby thanks for your input. ill keep looking and i will find them have a great day smokey
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Velo99
572 posts
Aug 01, 2006
5:02 AM
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Smokey,
I have a lot of whites. Not all pure white but real close.I have had the best luck breeding to a red baldie cock to get the highest percentage of whites. I have pearls and orange from two different hens
I am NOT breeding for them this is what this particular pair produced. I have had the cock on other hens. He is on an andy now. I will add this. Most of the whites I have encountered can be hot.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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J_Star
554 posts
Aug 01, 2006
5:15 AM
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Kenny, when you say they can be hot, is that good or bad? When they exhibit the hotness, is it when they are young or as they mature or matured?
Jay
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Mount Airy Lofts
249 posts
Aug 01, 2006
1:45 PM
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Took some photos
This bird here is still just tumbling. Trapped trainned not too long ago. (1053) I thought it was gonna be pearled eyed but looks like this might be the first Oranged eyed White Hen out of my stuff. Come to think of it, this is the first hen ever bred in the White colouration.
This bird here (283) is going about 10 feet with average velocity and 'X' style. It started flipping right off the bat but stablized in that flipping mode for a month before stinging the flips. Looks sound so far. Pearl eyed Cock - first rounder.
Both are just Double Factor Grizzles. None were bred for that type of color.
Thor
P.S. 283 is a medium sized bird (small for being a Cock). 1053 is a medium to small sized bird.
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on Aug 01, 2006 1:50 PM
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Velo99
574 posts
Aug 01, 2006
2:57 PM
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Jay,
Both. I have a cock bird thats a griz from the original white family(orange eye) He bumped at nine monhts and hasn`t been right since. He was a deep roller not super clean but scorable. Had it looking pretty good til he bumped showing off for the hens on the roof.He had never bumped ,had stabilized nicely after the first moult. I was thinking FOUNDATION. I am glad he did what he did and saved me the trouble. His mom on the other hand is a great bird who will bump very gently on release very occasionally. She is almost pure white with about three red feathers on her face. I had her on the redbar cock and they threw a lot of almost white birds. Most of them pretty good then stiffened a little in the second year. When they get ready to go woohoo look out!
Got another family(pearl eye)who I had a significant number of RD`s. I was later informed they were an "experimental" matching. I got the birds fourth hand so I really didn`t care. Gonna split em up after this round. The others are gonna be good with multi depth and nice control.One of the Squeaks did a realy nice piece of tight flying today when he came in after a few laps.Didn`t even land on another squeak. Was his third time up.Just keep em where you can remove them from your program if they go over.
I like a hot bird.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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smokey
11 posts
Aug 01, 2006
5:59 PM
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Nice pic,s thanks for sharing them. hope to a pair of selfe,s to fly soon have a good lead. have to wait until after NBRC fly smokey meanwhile i can look at your,s
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smokey
13 posts
Aug 05, 2006
7:20 PM
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young birds finaly flew today one nice big area one small area with trees in the way thats where they went better luck next time still enjoyed the fly have a great day everyone smokey
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edrick berzas
16 posts
Oct 20, 2006
6:47 PM
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Has anyone ever heard of a almond colored roller. Afriend of mine had 2 almond colored birds.
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smokey
23 posts
Oct 20, 2006
7:14 PM
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i had a pair they are nice i see them for sale elsewhere from time to time. thinking of getting some again.
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JMUrbon
30 posts
Oct 20, 2006
7:52 PM
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Smokey, I am not going to critisize you wanting white rollers because that is your choice to make and not mine. There are alot of different families of whites and yes most are on the hot side. I have seen some dam nice ones but far fewer than the bad ones. Most white families are double factor red grizzles and will go back to grizzle one generation out if you allow them to. I think that KGB's post was more on the money than olot of you realize. As long as you breed for the roll FIRST and the color second then you will be fine but as soon as you put two birds together just because they are white then you have started breeding for a certain color and hence gone backwards. Just my opinion though.You know on the complete opposite I probably get 40% self blacks anually but I never put 2 birds together because they are black I breed strictly for speed and style. I dont pay any attention to depth because it is already there I just try to focus on the speed and style. Joe Urbon
Last Edited by JMUrbon on Oct 20, 2006 7:57 PM
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Heyyou
58 posts
Oct 21, 2006
7:49 AM
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I have several almond colored birds that roll nice, the last one is a very young bird, good looker, not rolling yet and just a smidge bigger than my average.
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smokey
25 posts
Oct 21, 2006
11:25 AM
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i agree best with best thats why im looking for the best darn whites i can find troble is they all look alike up there.
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JMHD
5 posts
Oct 22, 2006
11:14 AM
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Smokey i am going to put down a pair of whites they are pure 318 Smith birds. My good friend Sam Gutierrez has bred these birds for years and of all the whites i have seen they are the best i have seen and they are a little hot but they will go 20' to 40'very fast. just wondering what family are you working with?
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smokey
27 posts
Oct 22, 2006
5:38 PM
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hate to say it but i dont no any family history on my birds. some day ill get some with good backround and all others will go. but untill then ill have fun with what i have
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155
631 posts
Jul 20, 2008
11:28 AM
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g/topic
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EVILLOFT'S
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