Newflyer
68 posts
Aug 17, 2006
5:23 PM
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This question has puzzled me for a long time about wheat and milo.When I use to have homers I fed them a good pigeon mix all yr long with NO problems. Now that I have Rollers all I hear is to feed them wheat and milo. How can these two seeds provide all the nutrients that they need. Are all the other seeds that are in a good pigeon mix just a waste of time and $$? In the wild pigeons dont just eat wheat and milo. So how is it that these 2 seeds are all that a roller need to eat during flying season. Can someone set me straight about this. Please answer here.... or e-mail me at hdwindjammer@yahoo.com
I need HELP
Paul
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
684 posts
Aug 17, 2006
5:54 PM
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What is boils down to is "strength". With racers you want them to have muscle mass, plenty of energy, and be fit enough to fly for hours, or in some cases, days. I have some racer friends who routinely pack the racer's crops full of whole peanuts the day before a race to make sure they have plenty of protien, carbs and sugars for energy.
That is completely the opposite of how you want to manage rollers. In order to manage the rollers to keep them at a viewing height, to keep their fly time reasonable and to keep them weak enough mentally and physically to not be able to resist the roll impulse, a fancier must keep them on a restricted diet. Families of rollers have been bred differently and manage differently. That means that some families possess a strong will and are high strung and in some cases, metabolize their feed differently than say a family which is more prone to having weaker will power, less desire to fly, fly, fly, etc and can be fed a mix feed.
Most successful roller flyers have come to agree that balancing the protein intake is the groundwork for proper management of the birds. What protein amount is appropriate? It all depends on the birds and how old they are. Hard red winter wheat, as fanciers for decades have discovered, appears to contain a reasonable amount of protein and carbs which overall gives the fancier the ability to keep the birds in a zone where they can be made roll fit, yet able to manipulate them one way or another. Milo is soft and digested quickly. It is low in protein which gives the fancier the ability to bring his birds down in fitness by feeding this lower protein feed. Yet it possesses a carb factor which helps to generate energy to fly, even during times of being physically brought down.
Other seeds tend to be too much of one thing which if given more than one time to the wrong family, can put them completely out of your control and in some cases make them so stiff they never roll. Again it depends on the family and each bird in particular.
Flying rollers is a day and night difference than flying racers. They might both be pigeons but they are worlds apart in what they require for what we require of them. A competitive kit of rollers has to be managed without fail. A roller flyer has to become a self-taught dietician when it comes to what and how much to feed their birds.
If a person just wants to keep rollers and fly them for their own pleasure without having to worry about doing any kind of feed maintenence, there is probably a family out there that can be fed mix daily, as much as they want and still go out and roll everyday and make the guy happy.
Brian.
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Santandercol
251 posts
Aug 17, 2006
6:05 PM
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Brian,
I like that post alot.You explain it sooooo clearly.I'll print that out.Thanks.
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Kelly
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nicksiders
796 posts
Aug 17, 2006
7:35 PM
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Believe it or not Brian put that hammer right square on the head(LOL).
All kidding aside, Brian's knowledge is pure and right on. That is why he is the State Champion of California 2006 and that is a tough roller league.
What a lot of breeders do for health reason is "yoyo" the feed schedule on a plan to be ready for a set competition day. I have an 8 day cycle. Two days on high protien; high fat grains; two days less protien and fat; two days straight wheat; two days wheat and milo 50/50; ninth day is comp day. Drinking water gets minerals and vitamins added. Take thier drinking water away after eating on 8th day. I feed about 1 1/2 cups per 20 birds.
You got to remember that with each family it will be different and adjustments have to be made until you are getting peak performance from them. They are sprinters; twenty minutes and the "race" is over - judging ends. Done!
Today, I had them too "hollowed out". I had six bump in the bean field that runs along my property. I had them on wheat and milo for 4 straight days just to try something different and to see how they would react to it. It was a disaster in the making.
Now, with someone elses family thier preperation for competition may be different and whatI do may not work for them.
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by nicksiders on Aug 17, 2006 11:10 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
685 posts
Aug 17, 2006
10:53 PM
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I wouldn't say my comments are right on the money Nick, but I appreciate the approval.
What you mentioned above in regards to the series of events of feeding is precisely what makes flying rollers with satisfaction such a daunting task for many people. Many people use the term "its a moving target" and rightfully so because it is nearly impossible to keep rollers performing correctly every single day. You always have to adjust. You always have to make changes, most of the time feed changes.
Right now on several of the forums there have been some comments made and discussions about what makes great teams of rollers isn't the families, but the management of them. It's an age-old topic, but one that truly is the essence of satisfaction a person gets from his birds. Rollers must be nutritionally managed, and unlike any other breed of pigeon, that management probably could be considered unsatisfactory or even cruel to some people. I would never, ever consider feeding my show birds straight wheat. Hell my chickens eat better than my kit birds...lol. But that is, for the most part, the means in which we have to manage our birds. And wheat is definitely one of the tools which gives the fanciers a greater amount of control over his birds.
One day a veteran roller flyer friend of mine told me that it is extremely important to balance heat with stability in the rollers while keeping a tight reign on their strength. His reasoning was that Mother Nature is always trying to revert the roller back to a strong flying, stiff pigeon if we don't keep steady vigilance over our birds. I have to agree with his assessment. If we were to just casually feed our rollers like we would say a flock of racing homers, we wouldn't see the performance of our birds and most of us would end up overflying them.
Management is everything with these rollers. It is a constant tug of war between control and them being out of our control. The feed can and quality of it is the throttle, the thumb on the pulse.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Aug 17, 2006 10:54 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
773 posts
Aug 18, 2006
3:36 AM
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Brian.You said;It is a constant tug of war between control and them being out of our control. The feed can and quality of it is the throttle, the thumb on the pulse.
And this is what makes rollers such a challenge and never really finding the right answers.The little buggers can adapt real quick to a set pattern.I find that constant changes keeps them on their toes and even then they still outwit me.LOL.
Every kit I fly reacts differently even though they are from the same family.
I am scheduled to fly the Fall Fly on Sept 8th so I am really trying hard to get my kits ready for that.Wheat, Milo & Canadian Peas are 3 grains that I use when setting them up for a fly.Hawks are starting to move already so hopefully we can get our fly in before the main migration starts.The heat and moult is bad enough to deal with as it is.LOL. David
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Spud
36 posts
Aug 18, 2006
5:29 AM
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Great information here guys! But I was wondering about these youngsters I have. I've been feeding them more protein for their muscle and feather growth. They are flying well, and starting to roll. I guess my question is when do you go to a diet of largely wheat?
Spud
Last Edited by Spud on Aug 18, 2006 5:30 AM
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siddiqir
259 posts
Aug 18, 2006
8:14 AM
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Hi guys, what would be the desire protein level we should look for in red hard wheat?
I got very good quality red hard wheat this year. The protein level is around 20% according to the website
Wheat
Birds are stiff & feel fat in the hand...probably high protein in wheat causing all that
Last Edited by siddiqir on Aug 18, 2006 8:18 AM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
688 posts
Aug 18, 2006
11:25 PM
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Rauf, when I get wheat that looks like that, I have to cut the amount I feed them in half! If I don't they will be flying long and high and roll less. I prefer for the wheat to not be that robust, but usually I don't have the option of choosing the quality, so I just have to adjust the amount.
Brian.
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Newflyer
69 posts
Aug 19, 2006
6:10 AM
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Once again I knew I could acount on my mentors. Especially Brian. Hey Brian can I just have a direct line into your brain? (LOL) All kidding aside, Now I have a better understand in the feeding of my birds. It explains why I ve had so many problems with my birds. And here I thought it was my birds and along it was ME. Maybe someday YOU GUYS will make a good manager and flyer out of ME yet. (LOL) Thanks again. I know I always have a place to come to for the BEST answers. Keep up all the great work
Paul
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siddiqir
260 posts
Aug 19, 2006
7:38 PM
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Yep Brian, it makes sense. Giving less will yield same nutritious to birds
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Major-ret
26 posts
Aug 20, 2006
10:06 AM
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Great info you guys - I to would like a direct line to Brian's brain!!! Hey Nick I'm going to try that feeding regiment and see if it will help with my 8 month old/+ flyers. I suppose it can be a little more difficult if one has several different families to feed for roll stimulation if the families react to the different feeds. I also feed the 2-6 month olds a bit more protein daily and am wondering if that could delay the roll. I'm figuring that a bit more for the younsters is good for development. Thanks again for the great advice. Steve
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Opinionated Blowhard
64 posts
Aug 20, 2006
6:33 PM
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You dont need ideal high protien wheat. If your wheat isn't strong enough just feed them a little more.
You can feed rollers like homers if you want. But pay attention to their reaction. Then you will feed your rollers the way most rollers are fed. Kevin
Last Edited by Opinionated Blowhard on Aug 20, 2006 6:33 PM
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J_Star
572 posts
Aug 22, 2006
5:35 AM
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Kevin, I tend to agree with you.
Jay
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quickspin
463 posts
Mar 18, 2008
12:37 AM
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Good info
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SALAS LOFT
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Mount Airy Lofts
569 posts
Mar 18, 2008
2:43 AM
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I am one of those who feed wheat and milo. It is best over all combonation for my family. Milo weakens my birds while wheat gives them flying strength. Frequency tho still maintain quality is what I am after. A good breeder mix is given to my fliers on their off days. They need off days to relax, just like me. They will also get their 'Let them be pigeon days' as well every so often.
Brian explains it pretty well.
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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sippi
150 posts
Mar 18, 2008
12:26 PM
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The Posts by Brian and Nick were some of the best I have seen on here in a while. My hat is off to you gentlemen. Thanks quickspin for ressurecting this post. This is part of the reason that when I decided to compete I went to one family. I have the time to play with feed and have found great and disasterous results. I have also found a family that responds well to my regimen rather than me responding to a family. I release my birds daily and feel each one and adjust my feed probably weekly because of weather, temp, flight times etc.
Sippi
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