rosebudrollers
21 posts
Aug 21, 2006
3:46 PM
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My 20 bird kit when first released skies out and is stiff for about the first 30 min.Then they desend to about 300 ft. and roll fair for the next 30 min.before trapping in.Have been feeding the 1 cup to 10 bird amnt.1/2 wheat 1/2 milo.Changed to 1/3 wheat 1/3 milo 1/3 mix ,same thing.They fly about 1 hr each day and trap in 2 min after landing. Ideas please! Curtis Miller
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Alohazona
178 posts
Aug 21, 2006
4:35 PM
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Seperate your kit in half.In one kit put birds that you know do the rolling when they come down to the viewable height.Take a good look at the 20 you have,and if your unsure if a bird is performing or just flying and kitting,handle them,you'll know a truly strong flying bird by handling them.See where they perch in your kitbox,stiff flyers are usually in a top perch position.Basically grade through them.Fly the 10 seperate where your able look for birds causing the problem,like strong flying.P.S.they are usually cockbirds...Aloha,Todd
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
775 posts
Aug 21, 2006
4:42 PM
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Curtis. Try cutting their feed by 1/2 untill they are only flying for 30 minutes.Try just wheat only untill you get them flying the way you want them.See if that don't slow them down some too.You have to be careful with wheat and don't let them get to lean and sky out on you.If they start skying out on you hit them with just peas.It takes 3 to 4 days after changing their feeding habits for you to see what it is actually doing.Hope this helps some. David
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Santandercol
263 posts
Aug 21, 2006
4:47 PM
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Hi Rosebud,
I would cut the feed an ounce only at first but I'd say you have about 2 ounces to work with.I want to see my birds roll in the first 5 minutes,not 1/2 an hour later.You've got to bring them down and feed is the way to do it,cutting the feed by half is less than a tablespoon per bird,a little bit drastic measures.Only my humble opinion.
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Kelly
Last Edited by Santandercol on Aug 21, 2006 4:50 PM
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Velo99
591 posts
Aug 21, 2006
7:31 PM
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The wheat is making them stiff. Cut the mix go with 1 1/2 milo and 1/2 wheat for a couple of days. then cut back the total amount a bit at a time. If that does`nt work do what Dave said
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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RB&R
33 posts
Aug 21, 2006
9:23 PM
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Wheat make my birds more frequent than any other feed. to me wheat is the mean source for pigeon fly. before i use to feed them protein 14% no corn food and my birds are not doing what i expect, when i start feed them wheat i see a lot of improvement..
Just my opinion.
Andrew
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
691 posts
Aug 21, 2006
9:37 PM
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Of course as you see, opinions will vary.
If I had a kit doing that, I'd feed them their normal amount you've been feeding them when they return, then don't feed them the next day and don't fly them that day. Kick um out the day after that and you'll see a difference.
Brian.
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Santandercol
264 posts
Aug 21, 2006
9:48 PM
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Brian,
Yeah everyone has different ideas eh??!!But the different approaches are interesting.I'm a newby in this gig so I'm only speaking from very limited experience.I'm sure your last post is much more valid than mine,I'm to much of a softy I guess!!Still,,,it's good to be involved.HA!!!!
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Kelly
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
693 posts
Aug 21, 2006
10:51 PM
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Kelly my initial comment wasn't meant to degrade anyone else's approach to such a situation so I hope you didn't take it that way. It is one of those things where if you get five roller guys together and ask them a question like that, you will get at least four different answers..lol
Just something you might find interesting Softy..lol...when I have to go out of town for work for three days, I feed my kit birds as much as they want. I let them gorge till they won't eat no more. They don't get fed for two days then are flown the next morning when I return. 8 times out of 10 they will put on a good show and fly for a good while. Rollers are really good actors, sometimes you have to jerk them around a little bit to keep their attention.
Brian.
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J_Star
568 posts
Aug 22, 2006
4:57 AM
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If you want to keep your birds flying low, hammer them with allot of protein. Too much protein will keep your bird closer to earth. You need to add some protein to their feed. Give them pigeon mix that includes peas and safflower for about 4 to 5 days and go back to Wheat/Milo. Giving them safflower will help them through the molt season. Stop and evaluate their heights when flying. When feeding Wheat/Milo, every 10 days or so you need to give them good pigeon mix for couple of days, otherwise they will get too light on you.
For being stiff, that is a different story. If they are older birds, then don't fly them every day and follow the yo yo system of feeding and flying. If you don't know what that means...just ask. I usually feed 20 birds about a cup and a half most of the time then I give them 2 cups on rest days. If they are younger birds, then I would suggest adding couple of tblspoon of canary seed with their feed (cup and a half) for about three days in a row. Stop and evaluate for the next three days. If you see an improvement then you will only need to give that to them a time or two during the week.
If your birds were doing it right and just recently changed their behavior to being stiff, then don’t really worry too much, it is just because they are molting right now. Once the molt is over, they will get back to normal. Good luck.
Jay
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Santandercol
267 posts
Aug 22, 2006
6:20 AM
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Brian,
Nooo!!Not at all!!I need to go away 3 days next week to pick up 45 or more birds from the interior of the province(not ALL for me ,some are for a buddy who was in the hospital during breeding season so didn't get achance to breed enough youngsters).I'll try exactly what you mentioned with my youngbirds.
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Kelly
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siddiqir
261 posts
Aug 22, 2006
9:12 AM
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Rosebudrollers,
Here is my take. You are most probably overfeeding and doing it for long time. Your birds are strong on wings and there must be few birds which are very strong and whole kit is following them...start cutting their feed slowly. The key is slowly and add weaker grains like milo, barley...bigger % of milo and barley will weaker them and you would see more action (less resistance to roll).
With my family the stronger the birds - less roll/action. It is difficult with temp. change to find out right amount to give so that birds can stay in the air for 30 minutes every day & they perform during those 30 minutes but it is not difficult to get close to it.
Hope that helps.
Last Edited by siddiqir on Aug 22, 2006 9:20 AM
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STARFIRE
51 posts
Aug 22, 2006
11:18 AM
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Hi Kelly;
I live in
Mississauga Ont.You said you were going to get 45 birds from someone in Ontario.I just was wondering whose strain of birds you are getting .Are they Barret birds from England?Or something else?Just curious.I know most of the guys that keep good birds.
Stan Arnold
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STARFIRE
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Santandercol
269 posts
Aug 22, 2006
9:39 PM
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Stan,
No,I'm on the west coast.Gabriola Island.These birds are coming from Al Hunt(Lumby),Larry Racine(Falkland)and Aaron in Kamloops,interior B.C.All Neible birds.
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Kelly
Last Edited by Santandercol on Aug 22, 2006 9:40 PM
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mammoth hill lofts
10 posts
Aug 23, 2006
5:44 AM
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Curtis, Now that you've identified the family of birds you fly, you might soon find the answers you seek from this assemblage. Initially I think you need to get your fly times down to 30-45 min max. If you gradually cut thier rations down and concentrate on feeding smaller seeds you should see actions that are more pleasing to you.My experience has been that it doesn't take much for your birds to perform on. Cutting back with a keen eye on condition and performance should help considerably. Rollers make the best actors! Mark
Last Edited by mammoth hill lofts on Aug 23, 2006 5:47 AM
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motherlodelofts
875 posts
Aug 23, 2006
7:50 AM
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If you are feeding Wheat/Milo and they are doing this they are in to good of fly condition and are probaby pretty lean , at at this point my birds will do the same.
You can starve them down but in the conition that they are in now they will probaby loose to much body wt. then when you feed them a little more ,up they go.
When my birds get like this it is time to quit flying and pack some wt on them ,and then start over.
They will react to feed much better also at that point, many times my old birds will get flown every 3rd day and the day before get no feed but the other two days get plenty to keep wt on them.
There is a reason why fat men don't run marithons,and the one's that do well are lean and mean, these birds are the same.
Scott
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rosebudrollers
22 posts
Aug 23, 2006
8:19 AM
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Thanks guys for all the great info. After studying all these great post I think these birds are too strong and over fed.Cutting the feed down has already brought the flying time down to 30 min. The roll has improved but the height is still too high but better.I will now pull the 6 most dominant cocks to see if one is pulling them up and place them back in one at a time to see if thats the problem.Playing around with these puzzling little creatures is a great pastime for retired old farts. thanks again, Curtis
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J_Star
576 posts
Aug 23, 2006
8:41 AM
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In my family of birds, its the hens who causes the birds to fly higher.
Jay
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rosebudrollers
23 posts
Aug 23, 2006
10:18 AM
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Thanks Jay,I will do hens next. I did notice one cock seems to always fly out front and he is the bully type.He is on the large side and is seldom and shallow in the roll. Could be the one. thanks Curtis
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Alohazona
179 posts
Aug 23, 2006
12:03 PM
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Curtis,
Its good to see your identifying some potential problems.Not necessarily becacaus I made mention of it in my above post,but its getting you thinking of the birds on a more individual basis which think is important in assembling a team of good/great performers.It is not always the case that we can feed/rest and hope for an overcast windy day birds through a funk.Genetically,not all birds even off of your best pairs will meet your standard you have set for performance.After a year or more of flying birds out comes a time to move birds in or out of your better kit.My point is this,and it has helped me.Your better performers need to re-energise after a solid performance,stronger stiff birds are able to eat more than their fair share and continue to be genetically strong which is just as good as a genetically weak bird performance wise.So theoretically birds that that eat at the same pace and are allowed the same amount of rest will perform short or long with more unity.This makes a better performance.Handling the birds checking their crops will tell you who the hoarders are.Splitting up the birds for flight or marking the birds in some fashion will tell you who the performers really are,and are the ones that really need the daily ration to re-energise.This might have started to get off the original question,but adjusting feed/rest,flying in the right weather pattern are a constant.Selecting for kitting and performance is a important factor in getting birds to fly right and CREATE unity.Just my thoughts....Aloha,Todd
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
695 posts
Aug 23, 2006
12:33 PM
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Jay, I agree. Once my birds mature, I've noticed the culprits of high, long flying are the hens. I didn't fully realize this until I separated the cocks and hens in my A and B teams and flew them separate. The hens would always climb, climb, climb whereas the cock kit would always hang at a nice hieght and fly for no more than about 30 minutes. I've also noticed the cocks appear to have a faster metabolism than mature hens. If fed the same amount, the hens will fly twice as long as the cocks, sometimes three times as long.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
876 posts
Aug 23, 2006
2:54 PM
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Brian, my cocks will do the same once mature and I fly them by themselfs ,overall they are also beefier than the hens which plays at least somewhat into it.
Scott
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Mount Airy Lofts
252 posts
Aug 24, 2006
4:55 AM
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Usually, if my birds are stiff and flying long, it is because of the lead birds. If your lead birds are pushing them thru the setups, then the rest will follow.
Feed will effect families differently. Play with it and see what works.
Try pulling out a bird or two until you find what is causing it. It could be that they are just going thru a phase. Or it could be that the family goes stiff after being so old. There could be a number of things.
Man, this hobby sure can be a headache.
Thor
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