pigeonlover01
21 posts
Oct 12, 2006
5:16 PM
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What is the best feed to feed rollers?
i feed mine whole wheat is that good? i mix pellets and 2 percent corn when the rollers have young is that good?
anythiing else that might help their performance please anyone let me know
~~AnDrEaS wIlLmS~~
Last Edited by pigeonlover01 on Oct 12, 2006 5:27 PM
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J_Star
628 posts
Oct 12, 2006
7:41 PM
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Lover01 (lol),
The customary way, which the majority of the fanciers feed their flyers is Wheat/Milo (50/50) most of the time and on occasions when the speed of the spin deteriorates a little, they hit their birds with more protein. Some will feed only wheat in the summer months.
Unless you live in an area where it gets very cold, then you don't need to feed corn or popcorn at all. I add 10% corn with the feed when the temps get around 20 degrees or bellow.
When your birds are molting you need to give them some oily seeds with the mix. Best is safflower seed. It is a bit expensive but works best to help with the molt and makes the feathers shine.
For breeders, I don't give them any of the expensive seeds because they will pick and choose and drop the rest on the bottom and gets soiled and wasted. Therefore, I only give them Wheat and on occasions I will give some mix. But when you give them only one kind of seed they will not waist too much of their feed.
Jay Alnimer
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Newflyer
83 posts
Oct 15, 2006
8:03 AM
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I think that this is the biggest question in the minds of all people new to Rollers. Speaking for myself.The wheat/milo mix is always first and formost. That was the way to go.Tweeking along the way. If the birds did this...then add alittle more wheat. If the birds did that...add alittle more milo. Speaking from all the EXPERIENCED flyers. Perhaps they forget about the young ones and are more concerned with the Comp Kits????This is great for the older birds. BUT, no one ever said "How to Feed your Young Birds"
The ones that most of us new to the hobby start with. I learn the hard way. But, after asking the RIGHT questions on How to Feed your Young Birds did I get the right answers. I was told to feed the YB's a good quality pigeon mix (1 cup per 10) to build up muscles so they get all the vitamins & minerals to help their developement. As YB's they need all the help they can get. Maybe this was a slight oversight.
When alot of guys just have that competition kit in mind (older birds).
Just seam as a new guy to ROLLERS. And please don't take this as a personal attack on anyone. Iam still learning ALOT from all the EXPERIENCED flyers. Thanks for all your advise and keep sharing.
Paul
Last Edited by Newflyer on Oct 15, 2006 8:11 AM
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MILO
6 posts
Oct 15, 2006
12:16 PM
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Hi guys.
Flying rollers has many facets, and when it comes to feeding, it can really be a mystery to the new fancier. If I can give any advice, remember to feed your youngsters a higher protein diet. A mix grain from the store will do fine. Peas, wheat, milo, kafir, safflour, and a couple others are usually the most prevalent seeds in a purchased mix bag. They will need it for muscle development and their first "traumatic" moult. You can control their fly time with the quantity of feed, and not the grain mix itself. As the birds age into the four to six month range, you will notice they are much stronger, and at that point, you can tweak their feed. I cut straight wheat into their mix over a three week period, until it is straight wheat alone. Wheat is the grain of choice for my current family. This is the general rule I follow. Just a guide, but hope it helps.
C
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J_Star
635 posts
Oct 15, 2006
7:54 PM
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I feed the young just wheat. They will perform just fine on that alone. Young birds don't like pickup bigger seeds like peas or pellet. They will go for the wheat and milo first. Peas will sit in the tray untouched.
Some fancier have reservation about giving their young birds wheat alone. I don't see side effects to the young at all in my family of rollers. They usually take to sky like pros when they are ready for flying.
Wheat is the stable feed to my family of birds from young to old.
Jay
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dave
167 posts
Oct 15, 2006
10:48 PM
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Certain feed is good for certain family. If you are getting birds from someone than ask them what they feed their birds.
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MILO
7 posts
Oct 15, 2006
11:57 PM
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Jay:
Odd, my young birds gobble up the peas and leave the small grains. The mix grain in my birds as youngsters, and pretty much every other family I have worked with requires protein for growth in the beginning. It's just a good tool for strong healthy development. I may have been a few inches shorter if my parents only gave me bread and water as a kid...LOL If my birds have been on straight grain and appear to be thin, and feel light in the hand, I go back to higher protein mix. To put on weight. I can't imagine trying to get the most out of my kits by adjusting the feed by quantity alone. Mine would just wither away. I think it is important to know which specific grains have good and bad effects on flying time and the roll. Of course, many families can be very different. JMO
As for the family/grain, Dave makes an excellent point. I have birds very closely related to the new Billings birds I am working with...Interestingly, mine do really well on straight milo. I have always had good luck with the milo. These new birds hate it, and do much better on wheat. Makes it difficult to fly mixed kits. I think this is primarily due to selection of stock and the handlers feeding habits of the birds in that specific program.
C
Last Edited by MILO on Oct 15, 2006 11:59 PM
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Velo99
642 posts
Oct 16, 2006
3:12 PM
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My birds, as Milo knows a mix of mostly west coast families. Every bird I fly except three are "my" familiy of birds. In all reality I have 9 families of birds.
Overall I have been happy with most of the birds I have bred. I have noticed that there are of two types. The majority are the longer cast thinner birds. A few are short thick cobby birds. I haven`t noticed a difference too much in the feeding requirements. They all come around when they get hungry.
Back to the subject. I was feeding wheat milo and pellets. After doing a bit of reading on the values of the various nutritional contents of the seeds we use, I decided to pump the milo to them. I have done the wheat thing and my birds don`t respond well to a straight wheat diet.I know it is to even them up before a fly,but still.....
I went over the period of three days, to 1 1/2 milo with 1/2 pellets. As I watched them fly I noticed a shorter "butterfly" wingstroke. They were flying as long as usual but stayed in closer and a bit lower.The kit action was pretty decent considering a lot of them are still really young birds. I picked out the best of both kits and moved them to the A box. I kept them at this feed ration for 3 days and they finally got really sloppy and a little thin. They were working well but just didn`t have the reserves from the higher protien pellets and wheat. They did come right on down when I called them in.
I put them on wbs and pellets 50-50 mix for now they were stiff as a board Sunday morning when it was prime flying weather. The wbs has then up a little higher than normal but they will come down in a day or two. I am getting ready to jack them with milo in about another week. See what I get. Overall milo is as effective a feed tool as wheat just on the opposite end of the spectrum.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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motherlodelofts
915 posts
Oct 17, 2006
5:40 PM
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One thing that you must keep in mind is that these are living creatures and not machines.
And you must familarize yourself with at least basic knowlege of of the seeds being used , and yes they need a well rounded diet to build feather,muscle,bone and to maintain health.
These birds are also breed towards a fault "rolling" which is brought on by stimulation and or weakening thier mental state , this is done mainly by feed.
Also these birds are athletes , they need "lean" muscle to roll hard , once you take it past "lean" everything suffers including health as the body if basicly eating itself , no bird rolls well once this starts taking place,at least not for long. And like any athlete you cannot maintain optimun condition for extended periods of time or they go past the lean muscle stage.
Milo will do exactly this after a fairly short period of time as it is a high carb seed that is more air than anything else.
Wheat is a great grain for bringing birds into roll condition (not all families), but should NEVER be used as the only source of nutrition for more than a few weaks, possibly a month in the heat of Summer , in mild weather mature birds not being flown do fine on it.
Young birds are just like kids, they need a good solid mix to grow muscle,feather, bone and to mentaly mature properly.
Breeders MUST have a solid rich feed also , not only for the obvious reasons of feeding growing youngsters but they also need it for themselfs as breeding season is very taxing on them , myself I like 16 0/0 lay pellets, for a breeding mix you want 16 0/0.
The hotter families need a richer mix to keep them from plowing dirt , my family runs more on the stable side , Wheat excels with my family , but that doesn't mean that they are kept on wheat, I also want to maintain muscle and this is done with protien when needed.
Pellets are for breders only , pellets contain to much salt which ups the water intake which over a short period of time destroys qaulity (if it was there in the first place).
Milo- high carbs,very weak due to a lot of air in it , I use it to lean up birds fast if needed
Wheat- good all the way around seed, weak when fed only by itself, good for bringing mature birds into condition , will also slow wing beat.
Peas - protien , birds must have when condion is brought to close to the edge (mature)also needed in a maintance diet , young birds need it in their diet to grow properly !!!!!!.
salfflour - fat, another must have seed when the diet needs to be richened up ,also valuable during moult.
Corn- must have when the weather gets extream, in N. Calif. I use Salfflour in it's place , Fat = heat
of course these are just the basics but valuable info that was needed on this thread.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 17, 2006 6:33 PM
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brian430
44 posts
Oct 17, 2006
6:19 PM
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hey Scott, well said, thank you.
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Brian in Ludlow, MA
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MILO
8 posts
Oct 18, 2006
12:16 AM
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Very nice post Scott.
c
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Major-ret
30 posts
Oct 18, 2006
7:30 AM
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Scott, thank you for an excellent post. Feed is certainly one of the more difficult parts of this hobby as it takes a bit of time to see the effects of diet (change) in the birds performance. Steve
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katyroller
62 posts
Oct 18, 2006
8:26 AM
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I also like to feed my young kit birds a good pigeon mix. I will keep them on the mix until I see them starting to perform either flips or deep tail rides. During this time they are usually racing around and flying high like kids hopped up on sugar and feel like a brick in your hand. I then switch them over to 50/50 wheat and milo. They usually start to slow down their flying, don't fly as high and start feeling lighter within two weeks. I've fed the wheat and milo from the start before and had trouble getting young birds to start flying and they didn't turn out as nice body wise.
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motherlodelofts
920 posts
Oct 18, 2006
1:41 PM
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Steve it'll come easier with more experiance of your birds , but all families need the basics.
Always handle your birds and watch thier reactions , they will tell you.
Gotta watch these temp changes also , they are burning more fuel than just three weeks ago and if you havn't adjusted they will rail out on you quick , my geese are eating about a third more , birds are needing close to that also maybe a tad less.
During the moult I feed everything rich with higher fat (Salflour) it ruins the roll with my birds but I don't care,I only want to get them through the moult as quickly and cleanly as possible.
I think that is where many inexperianced flyers get confused , you aren't looking for optimun performance all the time , they just can't do it, sometimes I'm just looking to build em up, and most of the time just a maintance type diet to fly on, other time's I'm just trying to keep the body wt on them through cold spells,in other words I am not always feeding for performace , but when I want to bring on performance they have what they need physicaly and mentaly to pour it on (the good one's).
Myself I buy all my feed in bulk
Wheat
Milo
Salflour
Austrian Peas
Plus Pellets for breeders and Millet for a trapping seed
A good young bird mix is
2 parts Wheat
1 part Milo
3/4 part Peas
1/4 part Salfflour
If I lived where temps got extream I would add corn to that also
If I run out of Milo I don't sweat it and just use Wheat , when you mix your own you can vary it as needed , as some kit or kits mature I will weaken it as need, if I think they need more body wt. I can make it richer.
Old birds only get Saf. during moult or if I think they need a few days of a richer diet or if I want to pound wt on them.
If I want to feed Wheat straight I got it ect. ect. , when you carry these grains seperate the options are endless.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 18, 2006 1:49 PM
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RXR Loft
45 posts
Oct 29, 2007
8:26 PM
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this is very good informantion...
I thought I would post only to bring back to page # 1
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Rudy
RxR Loft
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FRENCHROLL
160 posts
Jun 19, 2008
12:09 PM
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yup xlnt post......I gain valuable info on this site on a daily basis.
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"ROLLIN INTO 08"
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JMUrbon
545 posts
Jun 19, 2008
2:21 PM
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You know it is strange how each family of birds is different and in all actuality the location has as much to do with the type of feed as anything else. I know that I absolutely cannot feed my birds straight wheat for much more than a week or they just fall flat on their face. I found that a mix with no pop corn and approximately 40% wheat works best for me. I have flown from this mix and picked my birds for stock from this mix and thus it is what they do best on now. I up the protien % for the breeders to 15-18%. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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ozrollerman
1 post
Jun 19, 2008
7:21 PM
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Hi to you all.I just joined up names mark(ozrollerman) from melbourne australia.I feed mine pigeon chips,it looks like a chook pallet but its made for pigeons..
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Electric-man
1727 posts
Jun 19, 2008
7:29 PM
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Welcome Mark, glad you joined!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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PR_rollers
1231 posts
Jun 19, 2008
8:03 PM
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OZ Welcome,
This is an excellent post .especially the way Scott explains it .. ,,These birds are not robots.very important to remember when it comes to feed always give them mix protein at least twice a week for old birds. I give it everyday..they do fine on it.but when they youngsters its a different ballgame they need protein to help build muscles and maintain it.. great post Scott/Thx...
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Ralph
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Newbie 08
182 posts
Mar 11, 2010
8:23 PM
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I notice my young birds 6 weeks old don't pick up the bigger grains as well and lots of it just fall through the wire at the bottom of the kit box which causes lots of waste. I notice when I give them staright milo they pick it up better and there's hardly any dropping out and wasting. My question is it ok to just give them straight milo at 6 weeks until they can start picking up the peas as well or should I give them wheat and milo mixed?
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~~~~~~Roosevelt
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 8:25 PM
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JMUrbon
964 posts
Mar 11, 2010
10:33 PM
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Not a good Idea Roosevelt. Milo flies through their system too quickly. I will feed straight milo to a bird that is under the weather becauseit is easy to digest. Young need somthing with a higher protien content and that stays with them longer. You may even try pellets. I dont use them personally but many do with good results. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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J_Star
2262 posts
Mar 12, 2010
12:05 PM
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They will aquire a taste for Milo and you will have hard time breaking the habit. Milo will make the birds sky out due to the carbohidrate and will break your heart when an over fly happens.
Jay
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winwardrollers
446 posts
Mar 12, 2010
7:32 PM
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Scott
...And you must familarize yourself with at least basic knowlege of of the seeds being used....
Yes..Scott, I just got a rude awaking to Safflower this winter. Safflower doesn't put weight on like corn will. I was feeding 1/2 wheat and 1/2 safflower the birds were always hungry. The weather is cold enough here during the winter months that they need more. Next year I will half the safflower with corn and the birds will not eat as much and have more weight to them. This is a winter feed only.
I feed a small amounts of white wheat to slow the birds down and it seems to also keep them from getting irritated bowels like just striaght red wheat will cause.
I have ruined a lot of good hard working birds by feeding them same as non-workers over the years. Handling the birds is something that I need to do more often, alot of what I do is by sight when reading the birds.
One thing I have found with my Plona family of birds is I have to be constaint, I don't very the feed in large amounts. Slow and steady or the birds are out of control. If I held the birds in for a week like I have been reading here on the site, I would loose control. If I had them in great condition and cut the feed drastically they would only fly longer and harder..again loosing control.
I studied what people were feeding for the 2005 W/C fly and have come to the conclusion a varied diet is the best and those that feed single grain of anything grain didn't fair well.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Mar 13, 2010 8:04 AM
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JMUrbon
969 posts
Mar 12, 2010
8:29 PM
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You know Brad that is what has worked for me. I have fed my birds tha same mix 365 days a year for 10 years and have found that the consistancy is far better than trying to tweek them for a fly. I have seen far too many kit over the years that were supposed to be the " team to beat " that just couldnt hold it together. A shot in the dark that because it just so happen to work once or even twice all of the sudden becomes the gospel. Consistancy is what I concentrate on. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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winwardrollers
447 posts
Mar 12, 2010
10:21 PM
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Joe
I have done my share of tweeking in years past, it's a gamble, some times you get lucky and it works. I have had much more success just being constant, the birds get into a routine. As a flier you have a good idea what is going to happen on a given fly instead of trying to out guess the top or bottom of the roller coaster ride. I want birds that simply roll because they are conditioned well. Birds that are feed down hard to make roll or the eithier side of the spectroom that have to be feed up to stay in the air is just to much sway of the pendallem.
bwinward
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Squabby*32
234 posts
Mar 13, 2010
4:25 AM
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Good topic and responses. Thanks all.
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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fhtfire
2493 posts
Mar 13, 2010
10:12 PM
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I am like Joe...the birds really dont need to be tweaked...I really think tweaking them or trying something out of the norm is not the best thing. I have found that doing the same thing and like Brad said getting the birds into a rythm. I agree with Joe too....find the mix that works and then use that as the foundation. To me....all I do is get the birds in better shape....get them feeling good mentally and physically and then use the instinct of wanting to fly against the little bugers to get them real excited.....I have found its a matter of making them feel good....good feed foundation...fly time...lock down and open the door....to me the 1# thing that will jack you is wind..or drastic temp changes.....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
2916 posts
Mar 14, 2010
9:27 AM
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I am absolutly going to tweak them to manipulate potential as far as optinum condition with slight stimulation.. have I shot myself in the foot before ? you bet..more times than I care to think about.. but it also goes both ways... the over stimulation is the biggest fly killer when it is a good team.. if it isn't the best of teams I'm going to pull all the stops out and go for it with every trick I know.
Paul.. your water trick.. what do you think that is ?
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2010 9:39 AM
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fhtfire
2494 posts
Mar 14, 2010
2:15 PM
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Scott,
The water trick is just making them feel good....it is just giving them the extra to make them feel good.
Maybe we have a different definition of tweaking them....To me tweaking them is pulling the water, starving them down, not feeding before a fly, throwing a rubber snake in the box or what have you.
My water thing is not doing something extreme, it is just giving them what they need to feel good. I call that juicing them...LOL..To me the water is no different then what athletes do in real life preparing for a comp or game...or match...you get our self in TIP TOP condition and then you also use supplements to give the body what it needs to perform for a long period...that is what we called juicing before it was related to steroids....or fueling the fire.....putting some hustle in the muscle....That is all part of what you need to be an athlete..
Now tweaking is doing something just for stimulation..some call that torture...LOL...pulling the water...Not normal, Starving down not normal, throwing a handfull of something totally out of the norm.....to get them to freak...
so maybe we were talking about something different.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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J_Star
2264 posts
Mar 15, 2010
10:16 AM
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You have peaked my interest (lol)!! What is with the water thingy! Are you adding Top Plus to the water or other conditioner?
Jay
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