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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
mating bird to achieve top performers
mating bird to achieve top performers
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bob
9 posts
Oct 16, 2006
5:08 PM
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I have had rollers for approx 5 yrs. Ihave read W Penson,s Book & i find he contradicts himself on several topics. He states that he does not have to see birds flying to know how to mate for top performers. Does anyone with vast experience do this? In other words you could come into my loft & tell me how to pair them without ever seeing them fly. If this is the case could you give me some tips.
Thank you Bob
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J_Star
636 posts
Oct 17, 2006
5:36 AM
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Bob,
What he is saying is this; once you have a well inbreed family of rollers that all exhibit the same performance, character, and similar genetic makeup and pretty much everything in between, then no matter how you breed them, they will breed true. So you can just pick your choice right from the perch and the pairs will breed true as anticipated.
I or anybody else cannot do that for you and your loft because no one knows your birds better than you. If you have a close family that enjoys genetic similarity then you won’t have problem matting them off the perch.
Jay
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
144 posts
Oct 17, 2006
8:37 AM
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Bob,Pensom was a smart man with this type of bird , i would disagree with him in times in the past with his statement or writings , but putting his comments or his experience to the test his statments panned out true and i realized he was right and gave him his props.
Now mating birds from the ground ,without knowing the birds to achieve top performers,,,( yes it can be done).
I have met people that mated certian pairs together with good-great success,and yes i have done it because i have learned from them and through reading books and studying the roller,first of all we have to go with the spinner is and not with what we want or to compromise the bird,we pair them and put in the air to test them out, the pairs and the flyers and the percentages,negatives, and postives,keeping the best you study the birds and learn from them.
The charater,,,expression,,, body type,,, feather,,, eye sign,,,is what should be learned to having good indicaters on chosing birds from the ground and putting it to the test to build your family genetic's.
Once again i say let the bird teach us the way a spinner is designed.
Later dude---R-LUNA
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motherlodelofts
912 posts
Oct 17, 2006
9:30 AM
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Bob, good post
When you read Pensoms writings you must keep in mind that they span over many many years (including book)in fact in the book you can see where even where his writing styles differ from England to when he was in the states for a while.
No doubt he learned as he went and so his thinking on particular things also changed.
At the NBRC convention this year a couple of old timers hit on how well Pensom could read a bird to a point that was unbelievable.
Now to us mere mortals , I can look in my kitboxes and tell you which one's have the "potential" to be good one's , and I can tell you which one's don't , and then there are those that fall inbetween where it's anyone's guess , these I consider just kitbirds no matter how good they are , but generally they won't be super stars anyway.
I might add that truelly good birds aren't that far off from each other no matter what loft they are out of no matter what country.
And there is a lot more to it than just the gene pool, every family no matter how tight will throw off birds, if the family is well bred there is just fewer of the birds that are off , some are too strong, some to weak, the type may be off ect. ect. such birds will breed more of the same.
With that said , just breeding off the perch is a road to no where !!!!!!! and if you do for some reason, you never ever do it past the first generation.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 17, 2006 9:35 AM
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Alohazona
198 posts
Oct 17, 2006
9:55 AM
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Bob,
Yes it can be done!!..I agree with Richard,the more you study youre better birds you will look for characteristics for pairing up for performance.Often times,breeding rollers contradicts its self;ex.why don't first class rollere become prolific breeders them selves ,reproducing the same ,yet it happens.Pensom,had a knack with rollers,some would say more than that.Have you ever watched that show "the dog whisperer".A good read is TRUE SPINNING ROLLERS,it discusses the aerodynamics of rollers,it doesn't talk a great deal about character which is very important to me,but it will give you insight, and a direction to move in.Since my family is Plona based it has served me well.Tom Hatcher once told me there is " no one that can breed a body on a roller like Dick Stephens,Dick was very good friends with pensom himself....Aloha,Todd
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3757
85 posts
Oct 17, 2006
12:13 PM
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Bill Pensom understood his family of rollers and was a flying man. He did mate some unproven birds but these were not birds of unknown origin. He also would note in his record book that this bird was "unproven." This meant that he did not fly it. Most of his breeders recorded in his records had notations as "10 yard spinner champion" etc. A word of advice is that they have to be flown!! Bruce Cooper and I have had this discussion many times and Bruce will tell you that even though Bill could do this the birds have to be flown! Also, this was not a practice that Bill Pensom did extensively.
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:44 AM
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bob
10 posts
Oct 17, 2006
1:49 PM
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Thanks guys for all your insight into mating in this part of Ontario we do not have a big concentration of flying roller breeders so i really appreciate your views.
thanks again Bob
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