belle
7 posts
Oct 28, 2006
2:12 PM
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what family of roller pigeon is the best, and why?<><
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
827 posts
Oct 28, 2006
2:22 PM
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Belle. I have had rollers for most of my adult life since 1962.I have tried many of the families of rollers out there.To be Honest you have to find the family that suits what you like to watch.I have found good and bad in all that I have tried.My opinion only.David
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
813 posts
Oct 28, 2006
2:26 PM
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The one you invest ten years in and that gives you the satisfaction you are looking for.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rollerpigeon1963
108 posts
Oct 28, 2006
3:48 PM
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Belle,
It's not what family is the best, but the family that fits you. You can have birds from World Cup winners and get nothing out of them. And you get can get some birds from a guy across town and they are perfect for your needs. You have to have a family of birds that work with your flying schedule, conditionong method and breeding. Because its very hard for someone to change themselves for the birds. Because you can't change what come natural to you.And trying to change a bird to your standards well it wont be the same.
Now I'm not saying go to Eggbid and buy every roller on there. And see if they work for you. What I'm saying you have to find a good established family. One that is proven in the air and work with that. That is why you see some guys fly birds from Jay Starley, Norm Reed, Jerry Higgins, Carl Hardesty, Kenny Billings and etc,etc. Because all these families are different in some way.You can't take a Carl Hardesty kit and work it like you do a Norm Reed family. Every kit that you raise from these families are even different in some way as the others. And like Tony said it takes some time to get a grasp on these birds.
Some have had good luck flying different families of birds to see which ones fits them. And once they find a family that shows the goods. Well it goes without saying. That would be the family in the breeding loft.
Now the gentlemans names above was used as an example. And by no means did I mean these were the best. They were just some of the older families that a few people have been working with. It's up to you to find the one that works for you.
I myself have had 3 to 4 different families in the past 12 to 13 years. And I believe I finally have a family that is working for me and my methods. We will see!!!!
Hope this helps and best of luck
Brian Middaugh
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spinner jim
6 posts
Oct 28, 2006
4:00 PM
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hello,from my forty years of keeping rollers i would say that the badge roller is the best ,it has proven itself in the uk as the best competition roller ever ,in all club flies here it has won countless awards and has become unbeatable in club competitions believe me when i say to you if you want to win competitions the badge is the one to have ,to prove it i will send you a couple of pairs to start you off free of charge if you can pay the shipping ,this is from the uk where roller pigeon competition flying began and we are the best, make no mistake if you send for these birds you will have the bast fresh stock in your country and everybody will want them when you win the flies,forget the birmingham roller the badge will kit tighter and spin together tighter better scoring more points than your rival , spinner jim.
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sundance
20 posts
Oct 28, 2006
4:37 PM
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srinner Jim, you said to forget the Birmingham roller and get the Badge rollers. Whats the difference? are the just a different family or are they a truly different bird?
I`ve never heard of these... would love to hear more details.Does Badge refer to the markings or is it a family name only. Are they black and white or do they come in most average colors?
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MILO
13 posts
Oct 28, 2006
5:13 PM
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I'm speechless Jim.
Please enlighten us. Why is a badge roller the best? I've never heard of such a thing.
Milo
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belle
8 posts
Oct 28, 2006
5:37 PM
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thank you, I have turners and think I like them.<><
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
829 posts
Oct 28, 2006
7:19 PM
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Belle.Thats my main family too.David
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Santandercol
371 posts
Oct 28, 2006
7:24 PM
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Yeah,,,c'mon Spinner Jim.Fill us in some more.
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Kelly
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JMUrbon
36 posts
Oct 28, 2006
8:24 PM
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I have seen the competition badges and the only thing impressive about them is that they do roll in very large breaks but they just flip. They are crap compared to a good kit of Birmingham rollers. Just my opinion but I have seen them. Joe Urbon
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
145 posts
Oct 28, 2006
8:52 PM
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Best for what? I believe you must first now what to distinguse what best is , there is the question do you want best birds to score points for kit competition or the best high calibre pigeons in the air. To me i would want or try to acomplish first string rollers instead of second or third string birds for the mere sake of scoring points for kit competetion , although with ones hard work you could acomplish working rollers with the high quality in high percentage, and thats what i believe everyones goal should be, in advocating or perpetuating the true spinning birmingham roller.
Late R-LUNA
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
814 posts
Oct 28, 2006
8:52 PM
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Oh NO! Did I let Jim sneak back in here? Sorry guys. I will look into it.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Santandercol
373 posts
Oct 28, 2006
9:42 PM
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Yeah,he seems likes to stir la mierda.Pretty funny tho!LOL!
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Kelly
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W@yne
14 posts
Oct 28, 2006
10:39 PM
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Badge birds lol im from the uk and never heard of this in my 12 years of keeping rollers. The top flyers over here dont also ive asked many.There is badge birds in almost every family of birds over here in the uk ,Thats in many diffrent familys of birds I have seen aand judged flies around the country Ive seen good badges ,bad badges , Its the family of birds that you are flying. you might have some good badges other flyers might have some good selfs but badge birds its a new 1 to me please enlight me .ive heard of badge tipplers {high flyers} but birmingham rollers are a totally different bird? regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by W@yne on Oct 29, 2006 12:43 AM
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nicksiders
814 posts
Oct 29, 2006
12:42 AM
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The best family of rollers should be the family you're flying..............if they ain't, you are probably a crappy coach or manager.(LOL)You gotta believe they are, don't ya?
I can always tell when I am not doing a good job in manageing my birds. My birds will quickly tell on me when I am not taking care of the details.
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Snicker Rollers
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JMHD
6 posts
Oct 29, 2006
1:09 AM
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I haven't heard of the badge exept for the color. I'm sure there are different excellent familys different breeders would have their own opinion. From my past experience it would be the 136 Houghton line that line has become a foundation to the Kumro,Higgins,N.Reed,Homer Corderre,a family that has done excellent in major fly competition. The jaconnette birds had a touch with the Rusty cock. These birds have great quality and depth and break big. Another family is John Destouet's 1180/3638 also great quality and depth and control the roll doesn't get much better. Jay Starley won the NBRC 2000 fly with this same family.
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Ally Mac
113 posts
Oct 29, 2006
3:46 AM
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Jim.
I have to say I have never heard of BADGE ROLLERS, I have a few badges in my loft but I have never heard of such a STRAIN.
I fly all Moseley birds now, what strain sre the badges you mentioned. Would be interested to hear a bit more.
I am also in the UK, West coast of Scotland.
Al.
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Velo99
647 posts
Oct 29, 2006
5:25 AM
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Nick,
Hey bro good to see you!
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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JMUrbon
39 posts
Oct 29, 2006
9:32 AM
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Gordon Jackson here in Northern CA flies a kit of competition badges. If all you want is simultanious flips they are neat but they are no comparison to the birmingham. Gordons kit is all red badges with white flights and in the air they look nice but even he knows that they are no good for a comp. He just kinda flies them for peaple just to show what they do. He is also from England and has been flying birds for better than 60 years. Gordon says that England is where they derived from. Joe
Last Edited by JMUrbon on Oct 29, 2006 9:36 AM
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big al
223 posts
Oct 29, 2006
11:25 AM
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Hi Joe,
When you say Badges, are you speaking of the Pie Bald marking that I relate Badges to, or are you talking about a particular breed of performance roller?
If you are in fact speaking of the marking as I know it, are you saying you've never seen Badges in a comp team that were exceptional performers?
Just trying to make sure I understand where you're coming from my friend. :-)
Spinner Jim,
When you say Badges, are you speaking of the Pie Bald marking that I relate Badges to, or are you talking about a particular breed of performance roller?
If this is a breed of performance roller, I've never heard of it. Can you share a little about it?
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See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
Last Edited by big al on Oct 29, 2006 11:38 AM
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spinner jim
7 posts
Oct 29, 2006
12:11 PM
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hello again,my humble apologies to you guys if my last posting sounded a bit over the top i was just expressing my honest opinion on my choice of roller,i know you guys are experienced flyers and you have my respect,i would just like to add i would not enter your first class web site just to wind you boys up,i enjoy reading your postings it is very interesting and helpful advice that you freely divulge to anyone whos in the fancy.now a few details about the badge roller,they are quite a lot smaller in size than the birmingham with a small beak the range of colours is endless but generally they are competition bred and generally found in the midlands,i was informed today that they originally came from scotland years ago??,some people refer to them as the wolverhampton badge others red badge but generally just badge.a few months ago back in the winter Mike Tyson came over and watched a few competition flys in warley birmingham and was impressed with the performance of our badge kits so much that he bought quite a few and took them back home to fly,if you would like a look at the badge i have a few on my website www.lrpc.zoomshare.com/ although the pictures are a bit dated i will try and put another fresh lot on later this week, kits are usually 21 strong and flys are 15 minutes long,but they would fly longer if you need more , well have to go now ,see you all later, jim.
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W@yne
15 posts
Oct 29, 2006
12:18 PM
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Jim
wolverampton badges are tumblers totally diffrent breed to the true birmingham roller i think you are getting mixed up somwhere down the line.Whats the background to your birds jim?
regards w@yne.
Last Edited by W@yne on Oct 29, 2006 12:27 PM
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spinner jim
8 posts
Oct 29, 2006
2:05 PM
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wayne do you know the difference between rollers and tumblers?? after keeping them for forty years i think i know the difference,all my badges are rollers,i know of no-one in this area with tumblers,the birds i fly are all competition bred/related the birmingham/wolverhampton area is the most popular area to find the clubs that fly these birds and for you to say you have never heard of them is beyond me,jim.
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MILO
14 posts
Oct 29, 2006
6:31 PM
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Jim.
So let me get this straight. You have been raising Birmingham Rollers for 40 years, and when a person posts a question asking which "family is best", you respond with badges? The question is really loaded, and difficult to answer, as we all know there are many variables, but the answer you gave reflected a greater level of inexperience than the initial question. Since when did "Badges" become a family. 40 years? I'll tell you what is beyond me....It's how someone would think Badges are a family of Rollers.
Milo
Last Edited by MILO on Oct 29, 2006 6:34 PM
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hardtimekenl2
5 posts
Oct 29, 2006
6:49 PM
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jim all i seen on your site is birminghams pics. Where the badges on there too ? did not see them?
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powelld
1 post
Oct 29, 2006
7:11 PM
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Here is a site that gives a definition to Wolverhampton Badge. http://www.tipplers.com/jack/art/art_non_competitive.htm
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MILO
15 posts
Oct 29, 2006
7:19 PM
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Didn't get much from that article except: "Now, with the Birmingham Rollers we have the definite standard of perfection." Now that I can agree with.
c
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3757
88 posts
Oct 29, 2006
9:29 PM
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Wow - I am totally lost. The only family that I now that was ever called badges were Pensom's competition badges. Are you talking about these? If you are they were not Birmingham Rollers but tumblers that did full turns over and over again but could not spin or roll. Please advise on what family you are speaking of.
Dr LD
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W@yne
16 posts
Oct 29, 2006
10:30 PM
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Jim,
LET ME JUST GET 1 THING SORTED .IAM NOT TRYING TO KNOCK YOUR BIRDS 1 BIT,FEW QUESTIONS ?DO YOU FLY IN AERC COMPETITION ?OR ANY CLUB IE MRPC AT COMPETITION LEVEL , I HAVE TRAVELLED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY MIDDLESBOROUGH DISTRICT THAT FLY MAINLY BLACK PIEDS BLUE CHEQUERS AND BLUE BAR BIRDS,MOSELEY STRAIN HAS MEALEYS SILVERS BLACK TAR SPLASH PIEDS ALMOST ANY COLOUR SAME DOES GEORGE MASON I HAVE VISITED THESE FLYERS MANY TIMES IVE BEEN TO BROMSGROVE SHOWS IN BIRMINGHAM UNTILL YOU FLY YOUR BIRDS IN ANY BIRMINGHAM ROLLER COMPETITION AND GET RESULTS FROM THEM THEN I WILL TAKE MY HAT OFF TO YOU, THE WOLVERAMPTON INFO I GET IS THIS:- The Wolverhampton Badge or the Wolverhampton Plain Head or Mag. These pigeons will fly as high as any others. They will never fly the marathon times of Tipplers and they will never reach the standard of perfection found in the ideal Birmingham Rollers.
Last Edited by W@yne on Oct 31, 2006 9:44 PM
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Will Winsome
8 posts
Oct 30, 2006
8:59 AM
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Badges the best? Could be loft blindness. Need to get out of our backyard more.
Will
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katyroller
66 posts
Oct 31, 2006
6:29 PM
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Belle, as far as I am concerned I have the best family of rollers. I pay the feed bill so why would I feed less than the best? LOL Seriously, you have to try several families and see which you like and are able to fly well.
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motherlodelofts
923 posts
Nov 01, 2006
8:10 AM
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There is NO such thing as the best family , it all evolves around finding that right pigeon or two that produces qaulity and is full of roll and stable , it also needs to be pre potent which means it will produce on "any" decent pigeon , and the siblings need to do the same (the good one's).
And then you need to learn the in's and outs of the birds that you are producing , the tighter the gene pool the easier it is to bring it all together.
Scott
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bman
75 posts
Nov 01, 2006
8:49 AM
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Scott,
Your question raises a few questions for me.
Is the "right bird" the one that fits you or one you can learn to handle.
Also can a family be to "tight"
Your input is appreciated.
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Ron
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motherlodelofts
924 posts
Nov 01, 2006
1:42 PM
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Ron you will always have to "learn" how to handle them , which you do with experiance and good old comon sence.
I always preach this and I always will, and that is you need to develope a family that is geneticly tight where there is consistancy in them, the importance of this can't even be measured.
I might add that you will more or less just stumble onto such birds and one season will not show you the true value of a bird.
You here a lot about "click" matings , which is searching for the right mate for particular birds in order to produce, I will not do this as they will produce the same usually , I find that birds that produce come out of birds that produce without having to search for the "right" mate ,it is a far cry from a crap shoot that some would have you believe.
No a family cannot be to tight , if the faults are too great it just simply will not be worth the effort though , that is when most start breeding other birds into to try and keep the faults buried , it becomes just a constant process of out crossing and wide open gene pool which in turn keeps you search for the "right" mate or it doesn't work.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Nov 01, 2006 1:48 PM
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bman
76 posts
Nov 01, 2006
2:18 PM
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Scott,
If I can use you and your loft as an example.Okay you have the right family with all the qualitys you described.What will move you forward faster management or the breeding loft? I know both carry alot of importance but where do you put your focus ? Or is your focus on mantaining what you already have ? If you'll let me peek into your loft for a moment,when you pair your birds this year what percentage are proven and how many will be first time matings ? Sorry for the interogation.LOL
Ron
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Ron
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motherlodelofts
926 posts
Nov 01, 2006
8:47 PM
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Scott,
If I can use you and your loft as an example.Okay you have the right family with all the qualitys you described.What will move you forward faster management or the breeding loft? I know both carry alot of importance but where do you put your focus ?
(That is an easy one , it all starts in the breeding loft, you can't make something out of what isn't there in the first place.)
Or is your focus on mantaining what you already have ?
(my focus is breeding higher percentages of the best that I have)
If you'll let me peek into your loft for a moment,when you pair your birds this year what percentage are proven and how many will be first time matings ?
(this year I will go into the season with 5 high producing cocks and six high producing hens that are proven.
I also have two cocks and three hens that have been stocked that are yet to be proven along with one hen that is the jury is still out on)
Sorry for the interogation.LOL
Ron
(not a problem at all, I will share anything that I have learned about "my" birds)
Scott
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bman
77 posts
Nov 02, 2006
6:54 AM
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Scott,
I really appreciate your answers.I think if you know where your headed its easier to focus on your objective.
Excellent info thanks again.
Ron
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Ron
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Heyyou
59 posts
Nov 02, 2006
12:31 PM
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The best family of birds is the one that will perform not only to your own standards but to those of the level you wish to attain, AE competition or self amusement. You can start with a couple of pair of decent birds and after years of good selection out of the air and good management end up in the same place as the next guy, might just take you longer, but the journey is just as pleasant. Too many of you are looking for the shortcuts to avoid all the work, time and trial it takes to develop good rollers and just buy yourself into what started as good birds and after you mess them up with lack of knowledge and poor management, blame it on the birds, the breeder or something else. Study and learn what it takes to develop your own family and be consistent and persevere. The self satisfaction factor of breeding good birds that others want to see perform is what your after. Work for it. Bill
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spinner jim
9 posts
Nov 02, 2006
2:40 PM
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Well said bill,
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bman
78 posts
Nov 02, 2006
2:49 PM
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No shortcuts here.But if you are not willing to learn from others experiences good and bad that road will be endless instead of long.Scott just confirmed what I already beleived " it starts in the breeding loft".If you start with junk you end up with junk.I have breed and competed with hunting dogs for thirty years and have excelled at it.
In trials you face your competition on the same day, same ground, same conditions no excuses.And you always see the same handfull of people at the top of the game.I have yet to compete with my birds but when I do I want them to their best.As far as "shortcuts" the only ones I know are knowledge and hard work.
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Ron
Last Edited by bman on Nov 02, 2006 2:50 PM
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parlorfancier916
153 posts
Nov 03, 2006
7:43 PM
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the best family of rollers are the parlors because somewhere along the line someone decided to mix flying pigeons onto the indian floor roller(parlor roller) and bam! developed a flying roller...
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155
627 posts
Jul 20, 2008
11:19 AM
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good topic
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EVILLOFT'S
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CVRC
321 posts
Jul 20, 2008
11:24 AM
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lets bring it back...
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Cristian Castro
CM Loft
CVR
WWW.COACHELLAVALLEYROLLERS.COM
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gotspin7
1512 posts
Jul 20, 2008
3:51 PM
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Heyyou, great post!
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Sal Ortiz
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