knaylor
287 posts
Nov 07, 2006
6:51 PM
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Ok guys here is my questions. I was wondering what some of you think the proper way to watch a compitition and how to handle the judge??
1- I think people at the fly should be quiet during the fly. I have seen when guys will even call out numbers during the fly in ear shot of the judge. I have even seen where guys have even said "you didnt give him that". To me stuff like this is uncalled for.
2- I also was wondering what some of you think about the responability if the fly director is when it comes to handleing the judge? I have heard of guys not getting the score they wanted so they dont want to handle the judge any longer.
Let me know what you think.
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J_Star
653 posts
Nov 08, 2006
4:50 AM
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The best way I think is for the judge to take a spot away from the participants and keep people away from him while judging. If anybody walks close to the area where he is situated, the judge should gently tell him to move along and stay with the rest of the participants.
I believe that people have their own personality and own way of thinking and they do anything if they are not in check. Therefore, the judge should take the lead and tell everybody how he wants things around him during the fly time before the fly starts and 99% of time people will respect his wishes. That is my opinion only.
Jay
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Velo99
653 posts
Nov 08, 2006
4:59 AM
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Both times I was judged I just stood and listened. When there were other flyers present they just stood still and watched. Hey, we`re adults and should be able to stand quietly for 20 minutes.
One other thing, the judge has volunteered his time and effort to judge the kits in a fly.......
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
783 posts
Nov 08, 2006
11:00 AM
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Kevin, you would be annoyed out of your skin if you attend a fly down here and are at the house of a flyer who flys (and sells) a certain family of birds. The whopping and hollering (back door hustling) will boil your blood. At least it does mine. If I am judging and here that kind of stuff, first time I ask them to chill out, second time I tell them to STFU!. There isn't a lot of respect for judges or flyers who don't fly a certain family down here.
Brian.
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birdman
220 posts
Nov 08, 2006
5:36 PM
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Brian, based on your last statement about respect and this certain family of birds, do you think that a new competitor would be better off to start with this family in order to get a fair shake?
Russ
Last Edited by birdman on Nov 08, 2006 5:52 PM
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MILO
19 posts
Nov 08, 2006
5:47 PM
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Hey BMC.
Ya, that would be annoying for sure. I do think it should be the job of the judge to set the tone. Those that are out of line should be asked to leave, and if a competitor is out of line he/she should be DQ'd. The refs in professional athletic don't hestitate for a second! Should be the same here. Of course, something like that has to be written into the by-laws and enforced. JMO.
c
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knaylor
290 posts
Nov 08, 2006
6:40 PM
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Brian, that would piss me off. Up here we dont get that, but sometimes it does happen.
JSTAR, I wouldnt ask or want the judge to go away from people because he needs to be in the best posible place to view the birds.
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Fr.mike
190 posts
Nov 08, 2006
7:06 PM
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J star-Right On! If you want to pull that kind of stuff--Just be a backyard flyer and judge your own birds as you see fit.!! I had my first fall fly and got --I believe--19 pts. and was happy to get that. Brian M. was the judge and as best as I can tell he was more than fair.I am SO tired of effete guys that whine about this or that.My son and I --about-15 years ago had raceing hommers--I could hardly stand the baby like attitudes and POOR ME --I didnt win because of this or that,and hommers are on the clock---whats too whine about?--But many found a way!! Be thankful this guy came to YOUR house and shut your trap-- shake his hand and try again next year!!!
Fr. Mike
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centralvalleylofts
38 posts
Nov 08, 2006
7:15 PM
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i understand the concept but at the same time you do have judges that are just that prejudice about certain famalies call it human nature and that suck#s but the facts are that some people are out for their own and thats that.like said before they dont want a nobody winning or straight out running with the score where they have to keepem close so as to keepem within reach just my personal thought.steve
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Heyyou
60 posts
Nov 08, 2006
7:24 PM
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If a judge comes in with a predetermined attitude or shows favoritism to a particular family, plain and simple he should no longer judge. A judge is just that, grading what he sees in the sky, good or bad, and if he cannot do that objectively he should move on to roller derby or something elso. Observing is what all should do at a fly and quietly and also writing down your own score and compare it with the judge at the end.
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knaylor
291 posts
Nov 08, 2006
7:53 PM
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Steve and Heyyou, although I have never seen this in my area I would have to agree with you. The best way is to make sure you dont get those kind of judges.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
785 posts
Nov 08, 2006
8:32 PM
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Russ, I don't believe they should "just because", but there is such a large following of those birds here it would be hard for them not to be enticed to seek them. And if they are a good learner, will do well with them. The "cheap seat roller hustling banter" here during flys has worn thin on many of us, including myself.
PS--how are those young ones doing?
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birdman
221 posts
Nov 08, 2006
9:57 PM
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Brian, out of the group of youngsters, I'm putting my money on #1842 and #1847. They were the ones showing the most before I locked them down, but they are still only about 5 months old and hopefully in April will pick up where they left off and develop some hard spin. I decided to lock a few of them down when the hawks started moving back in so I could prove them out next year. The lavender saddle #1844, andalusian #1841, dark check #1839, were all taken by hawks. Dark check #1838 was culled. Light tort #1843 and black oddside #1845 are flying with my B kit, but #1845 gets way too strong and strays from the kit from time to time and is very high strung, although he likes to roll. Alot! If you get a minute, I'm curious to the parentage of #1842 and #1847, both are black.
Russ
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
786 posts
Nov 08, 2006
10:21 PM
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Bummer on the hawk losses man. But at least you figured a few out before having to be cautious.
1842 and 1847 are not sibs. Their fathers are full brothers off B.E. x the black bar hen I showed you. I've got a couple of really good ones this year the same as 1842. Her father is also the father to the and w/f hen you got from me a few years ago.
On the one that is high strung, if it has been doing it for a while, send it packing. I get a few like that, usually ones that spin their asses off. Got one right now that I keep in the C kit that does that. Only reason it says around is because when it rolls, whew....lol. Eventually I'll just send it to the farm or the falcon will get it.
The black oddside is different stuff. Those from that cock seem to come in good then go stone cold stiff. Don't be afraid to put the screws to it. They respond to that well, but only for a day or two.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Nov 08, 2006 10:21 PM
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birdman
222 posts
Nov 09, 2006
3:17 PM
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I made a mistake about #1847, I should have typed #1849. What is #1849 out of? She's also a BE family bird.
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Brian_Middaugh
5 posts
Nov 09, 2006
6:45 PM
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Judging,
Well I'm a little different when it comes to judging. I like to have the owner of the birds right beside me or real close. That way he can see what I see and hear what I call a roll or just slop. I make sure that everyone is far enough away from the kit box and that the noise is kept pretty quiet.
I talk a lot when it comes to judging I count and point I ask the score keeper to keep an eye on a certain birds etc.etc.. I add and subtract from my counts. For example I was on the west coast a while back judging there region. I told the score keeper 10 but within a few seconds I said subtract 2 from that. I told him that two birds came out of the roll the wrong direction and they wouldn't be counted.
I like when the owner asks me questions about his birds. I have asked by someone what does it mean when I say an A-Frame roller. And when we are standing there I can point out what one looks like. Or what it means when I say the bird hick-uped during the roll. All this is when a bird changes its axi's.
I count out loud when I see a break. And all I'm doing is counting how man seconds they are taking when they roll. If I get to One, One thousand I see it as the birds rolling 10'. So I will also use the count as to see the 1/2 second rule.
And if the owner is there you can point out any out-birds that you see out. Where he might not see them and also tell him why its an out bird and not just a loose kit.
Most of the time when you get the owner over with you they see about the same as you and know what you see as scorable and not. Keeps the yelling and finger pointing down. And it makes a great tool for everyone when it comes to seeing style and scoreable breaks.
This is my own experience and it has worked very well for me. And gets others asking questions while your there.
Thanks and best of luck
Brian Middaugh
P.S glad you and I were on the same page Mike. Had a great time judging your region. And Keith Maxwell keep up the great work buddy.......
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knaylor
294 posts
Nov 09, 2006
6:47 PM
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Brian, whats up buddy??? Very nice reply good post and thanks!!
Last Edited by knaylor on Nov 09, 2006 6:48 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
788 posts
Nov 09, 2006
7:01 PM
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Russ, 1849 is off the 415 blue check cock that was probably the best B.E. bird I raised last year x the nest mate to 415s mother which are full sisters to 457.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Nov 09, 2006 7:02 PM
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birdman
223 posts
Nov 09, 2006
8:32 PM
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Thanks Brian, I'll make a note of it. This hen is also the smallest of all the BE birds and has a tad more fiery expression than the others as well as some splashes of white feathering on her rump which the other blacks don't have. A very nice bird!
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AIREDALE
33 posts
Nov 10, 2006
2:40 AM
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Brian M.,
Your post on how you judge is excellent. Passing on your knowledge to the person being judged is a great idea.It can't help but improve everyone's knowledge and further the breed.As for the whinners and malcontents, pay attention you might just learn something.Judges come under fire in all arenas, dog shows, pigeon shows, competition flys ect.and usally by the inexperienced novices.How the competitor with a few years experience under his belt can criticize a judge with 20 or 30 yrs experience is beyond me.Judging flys can be a pain in the neck in more ways than one.Hats off to You and others who give up there time,energy and knowledge to help improve the breed.To the complainers,if you don't like the judge don't fly under him.
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Brian_Middaugh
7 posts
Nov 10, 2006
7:59 AM
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Hey John and Kevin,
Thanks for the kind words..But all I offer is my honest opinion when I judge. Not saying that I'm right or wrong. Just my opinion on what I like to see in the air. And not only that but it gets you and the competitor talking and discussing ideas on how to improve and what looks the best. It allows the new guy to see style and speed compaired to others. And what I like most of all you can follow a judge during a competition and when he leaves your area and judges another you get an idea on how well that region is doing. And you don't have to be there.
I remember a few times telling some of the competitors that the birds they were flying would be better 11 bird kits than the 20 bird kits they were flying them in. And when I mentioned this I didn't want them to get mad but I gave them an example what I had meant. And just this last judging trip it had helped a couple of them.
Just because you have 20 rollers don't mean you have a 20 bird kit.
Just something to think about!!!!
Thanks and best of luck
Brian Middaugh
Last Edited by Brian_Middaugh on Nov 10, 2006 7:59 AM
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