ultrasonic
8 posts
Nov 15, 2006
11:51 AM
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Sorry but as someone who is new to rollers,I have a noob question.
Who are these men James Turner & Tony Roberts,are their birds some thing special as compared to other families? I keep seeing their names come up on other forums,I hope some one can explain if their birds are competition quality birds or show birds or both?And what family of birds their birds originated from?
..........
Frank
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J_Star
666 posts
Nov 15, 2006
1:32 PM
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Frank, Their birds are considered colored birds. That means they were bred (crossed) a while ago with other kind of pigeons to introduce the fancy color that is not found with the original BR rollers. It doesn't mean that the birds don't spin and perform well, rather, been crossed with other kind of pegions (not rollers). They are considered not pure BR.
Jay
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2006 1:33 PM
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ultrasonic
9 posts
Nov 15, 2006
2:22 PM
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J Star
.........
Thanks so much for the explanation!
......
Frank
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
831 posts
Nov 15, 2006
3:41 PM
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Jay S. I don't know where you got your information about the Turner birds but you are way off in your explanation.They are Bill Pensom/LLoyd Thompson based.David
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motherlodelofts
942 posts
Nov 15, 2006
4:09 PM
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Now Dave , I know that you saw the evidence tape, oh I mean genetics tape LOL , c'mon, at least be up front with it and quit trying to hide the facts , it might fly on that other site the way you guys censer it,but you guys dont have control over the master delete key here .
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2006 4:34 PM
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fhtfire
633 posts
Nov 15, 2006
4:27 PM
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Scott is correct....I saw a video with James Turner in it and he admits crossing in other types of pigeons and what he did to get certain colors...I think J_stars post is pretty accurate...and they do sping now....the spin was brought back into them...but they are not pure. James was able to get the colors and intorduce the spin back to the birds. That is all that I am saying..LOL!! and they all do full turns...LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
943 posts
Nov 15, 2006
4:32 PM
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Didn't need the tape to know it Paul, it is obvious in many and not only due to the color.
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fhtfire
634 posts
Nov 15, 2006
4:33 PM
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I know...I remember talking to you about that one with the fantail blood..had the real thick tail.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
832 posts
Nov 15, 2006
4:51 PM
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Scott & JStar.Let me ask you how many of the Turner Rollers have you seen other than what you saw on the tape.Yes I admit that Turner crossed some other birds with color into some of his project birds and yes they will roll their butts off but the fact is that the main family of rollers and the majority of the ones I have are the Pensom?Thompson based family.And yes I am even working with some of the other colors too.And having good success with them too.
Scott you are right I don't have the delete key here but what you say is only your opinion and when you talk about my Turner family of rollers you are just drawing your own conclusions anyway.And I probably have the largest collection of Turner family rollers there is.
But the proof is in the puddin and that is in the air.David
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Alohazona
202 posts
Nov 15, 2006
11:36 PM
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David,
It really doesn't matter what these other guys think,its just not there choice for a roller pigeon.Theres nothing that says these birds cant compete and compete they do.What they are trying to do is trying is get the birds classiffied as colored birds,because the turner based birdsare being put up against the best in the world,and are having a sucessfull run.If breeders like Turner/Roberts were able to introduce a fancy pigeon to roller to formulate a consistant color or marking and still put up the performance equall or better than tightly bred familys,holding up year after year,They should be commended.It can be lonely at the top and I think thats what were experiencing here.All for what, to detract you from the bottom line,THEY ARE GETTING MORE FANCIERS IN THE TOP,,,IRREGARDLESS,LOL,LOL..They are missing the point Thats what is all about...Aloha,Todd
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knaylor
299 posts
Nov 16, 2006
1:05 AM
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From what I have heard about the Turner family (and this is from guys that have them) they have brought in different blood because of the high percentage of roill downs. David are you still working with the rolldown breeding project?
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
833 posts
Nov 16, 2006
2:33 AM
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Kevin.No I had to put that on the back burner and spend my short time to concentrate on the NBRC Fall Flys.Right now it is way back and don't know if I will pursue it or not.LOL. David
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
834 posts
Nov 16, 2006
3:30 AM
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Frank.Yes the tape and CD is still available.It shows the different crosses that Turner made to get different factors and modifiers in rollers.Quite a learning tape for anyone who wants to learn about Genetics.The tape was made as a learning tool about pigeons and not as a guide to destroy the Birmingham Roller as some would make it out to be.However what they did has become a large part of the roller world in the past 10 years and has really moved the Hobby to a different level.More people are getting back into pigeons just because of all the pretty colors.LOL.Actually there is only 3 Colors in pigeons.The rest are just Modifiers and Factors.
Email me at dwsaas@greatcove.net and I will give you the info on how to get the tape or CD. David
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J_Star
667 posts
Nov 16, 2006
4:42 AM
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Dave, I believe my post was accurate, short and sweet. I talked about the crosses that took place in the past and also about the good performance some of the birds’ exhibit. I did not degrade them nor appraise them. I just explained in a couple of sentences the family. No offense my friend.
I disagree with Todd about the competition aspect of the colored birds. I know that the SC men like Joebob Stuka and some others fly some of James family but don’t forget that Jay Starly’s blood had been infused into them to correct issues. How many of the birds he flew in the W/C are colored? Although, I’ve seen some excellent James Turners birds and that is no lie.
Jay
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
836 posts
Nov 16, 2006
5:40 AM
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Jay.What you said you stated as a fact.Where did you get your info that they are considered Color rollers and was crossed with other rare breeds of pigeons to form the family.I agree that Turner worked to introduce other colors into the rollers but the main family of rollers that are Pensom/Thompson were kept intact.So you and a few select others that state things as fact weither short & sweet without proof is just spitting in the wind.I invite you or anyone else to come visit my loft(I know you had planned to lol) and look the birds over and tell me they are not as pure as any other rollers in the U.S.And I don't have to cross other familys to get them to stay in the air and roll.However I do sometimes just to get that Hybrid Vigor for Competition.LOL.
I am still trying to figure out why every tie James Turners name is mentioned some jump right in and say they are crossbreeds and are not pure.Who has the right to say the rollers they have are pure? You would think that after 50 years of promoting the roller hobby he would get the credit he deserves.
I can tell you one thing and that is there is not a family of rollers that I have found since 1962 that can equal the Turner family.I even offered to buy some from a couple of true Purist and for anyone to change my mind if they have anything better.One said he didn't sell birds,the other said he was afraid I would cross them with my colored rollers.
We have went this round about the color vs pure many times on this and other forums and I wont debate it any further.As a matter of fact it was for this very reason why the other club and site was started.We were all members here but the few Purist didn't want us here and caused many to leave this great site.Can you imagine how big this site would be if so many hadn't been driven away by this very thing?Why does there have to be such a division among the Hobby.It all comes down to we are going to raise and fly what we want to anyway.Just my opinion.David
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Heyyou
63 posts
Nov 16, 2006
9:22 AM
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I think a few of you are missing the point. That being it doesn't matter if it is crossed with a turkey and as large as a seagull, if it performs in the air as a roller should, it is just that, a roller and can take part in competition and be judged as such. Now it can be as small as a humingbird also and fit right in. All genetics aside, it is judged in the air not on paper nor because it might have some other heritage. The performance is all that should really matter. I get the impression that some breeders feel a little threatened by a family of birds with questionable heritage that perform just as well as others that are Birmingham rollers. When they are in the sky doing their thing, can you tell the difference? I don't think so. I personally am trying to breed the smallest bird I can and still get what I am after, the tight spin and good depth. If I can do that by crossing with a golf ball, so be it. Bill
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dave
201 posts
Nov 16, 2006
9:45 AM
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Who still has these pure birminghams from Mr. Turner? If they are still pure than those would be some great birds. Had a couple of bad outtings with color birds but maybe I can get some from you or some of the pure Turner birmingham ones to try them out so I can make my own judgement about these Turner birds.
David, why do you feel that you need to cross to get a hybrid vigor if the Turner stuff are real good already? Is it because they can't hold up to the spin as they age? I also remember that you breed a new team every year, why is that? I think if you can hold onto your birds than they should just get better as they age. Not trying to cause trouble but just want to know.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
837 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:37 AM
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Dave.Hybrid Vigor.Always trying something new.Always looking for an edge.I said before if I ever Competed I would do so to win.LOL.
I just had 2 hens Certified this year at 40 foot and they were 2 years old.They are now retired from flying.They were in the same team from the beginning.I have never flown any any longer.If they are that good I stock them.
Breed a new team every year.Heck I breed a couple hundred birds every year so yes I have new teams every year.
Why I sell a few from the A Team each year and stock a few because I don't have a problem coming up with another A team for next years competition.Already have another team picked out for 2007 which I am sure some of the birds will change before fly time.There is 4 birds in it that will be 3 years old and still doing it.Actually they are better now than they have ever been.
David
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J_Star
668 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:44 AM
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Dave, I use the term colored just to distinguish them from the other families of the BRs. If you don’t like the term, just tell me how to reference to them and I will use that term. Anyway, I give James Turner credit for what he did, because he achieved what others have failed. Bill Pensom decades ago said that cannot be done and James proved that it can be done. Why do you need to bring vigor to your birds so often? From all of you guys reading these posts, how often do you try to bring vigor to your birds? I would like to know. Thanks…..Jay
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2006 10:45 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
838 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:57 AM
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Jay.Again you misunderstood.The Hybrid Vigor thing is a Project thing with 2 or 3 pairs.Not bringing them into my family but rather giving the other family a shot of Turner blood to get the Hybrid Vigor.I don't need to do it but as I said earlier I get bored easy and am always playing with something.Always looking for an edge.
If you ever visit you will see how I do things.LOL. My main Loft of Turner family never gets anything added into it other than that family.No chance of anything ever happening that is off base.I even keep Turner family from other Breeders in a seperate Loft.
And I even have a seperate Loft for my next project which is the Fireball/Whittingham rollers.David
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knaylor
300 posts
Nov 16, 2006
1:15 PM
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David, who or what club certified the birds?
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
839 posts
Nov 16, 2006
2:02 PM
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They were certified thru our club.David
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katyroller
77 posts
Nov 16, 2006
7:04 PM
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To answer the original question based on previous replies posted. I would say yes there are good Turner and Roberts birds but if you admit to flying them there are those that are going to bash you and your birds. My experience has been that the bashing can happen no matter who the family originated from. I've been on flys where everyone ohh'ed and ahh'ed over a kit and then called them junk when they found out who the birds came from! One reason so many folks have left the hobby or quit flying competition.
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nicksiders
846 posts
Nov 16, 2006
8:45 PM
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Just tell'em they're Pensom birds and then make'em prove they aren't(LOL)
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Snicker Rollers
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Mongrel Lofts
218 posts
Nov 16, 2006
9:08 PM
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{Quite a learning tape for anyone who wants to learn about Genetics.The tape was made as a learning tool about pigeons and not as a guide to destroy the Birmingham Roller as some would make it out to be.However what they did has become a large part of the roller world in the past 10 years and has really moved the Hobby to a different level.More people are getting back into pigeons just because of all the pretty colors}
{ I am still trying to figure out why every tie James Turners name is mentioned some jump right in and say they are crossbreeds and are not pure.Who has the right to say the rollers they have are pure? You would think that after 50 years of promoting the roller hobby he would get the credit he deserves.}
David,
Just by reading your quotes and this thread.. Turner and Roberts are getting credit for what they done to the breed.. In my opinion.. KGB
PS.. the answer to your last question is," anyone not crossing breeds to make pretty color or breeding from those cross breds..
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2006 9:10 PM
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motherlodelofts
948 posts
Nov 16, 2006
9:09 PM
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Katyroller ,a good bird is a good bird and can only be denied by those that don't know the difference , normaly when you hear those that oooh and aaaw qaulity means little and is usualy some frequent cull getting their attention .
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2006 9:15 PM
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Ballrollers
480 posts
Nov 16, 2006
9:22 PM
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Sorry, guys...I just have to wade in here. I have never read so much misinformation reported as fact, oh heck, let's just call it what it is, BULLSHIT, from men who should know better by now, since the last time we took this subject up for debate!! Actually, you've been doing a pretty good job at sorting through the crap, David! For those of you out there who are curious, please read the article on the Turner family in the NBRC bulletin that I wrote after a series of personal interviews and discussions with James. Then you will have the facts. AS DAVID SAID, THE PERFORMING ROLLERS IN THE TURNER FAMILY OF BIRDS HAVE NO BLOOD IN THEM FROM HIS PERSONAL SPECIAL PROJECTS WITH BREED OUTCROSSING. The Turner family of rollers has predominantly blue checks, black, red bars and checks, recessive reds, yellows, like any other family. AND, you will also find Indigo, Andalusian, Brown, Dominant Opal and a smattering of other modifers. To call them "color birds" only reveals the ignorance, prejudice and misinformed point of view of the name caller. If you were to see the birds in the air, most of you wouldn't be able to tell them from any other kit based on color. And on the ground, you would not be able to tell the ash reds, blacks, blue checks and rr of this family, from any other family of Pensoms or Thompsons. Like Joe Bob's world champion kit, they were predominantly (80%)Turner birds...of standard colors...some carrying rare modifers...and some displaying rare modifiers, and some had about 20% of the blood of other families. The colors were as irrelevant to him as they are to Jay Yandle, who won the 2003 NBRC 11-bird national title, and David Strait who has one his region two years straight with this family of birds....and I could go on with many other flyers competing and winning with this family.
The genetics tapes were just that...genetics! They showed how breed otcrossing could be used to import genes for colors and modifiers. To produce his performance line of birds Turner used only one roller that had been outcrossed to another breed many generations ago, to import each specific gene for a modifier, into the Pensoms and Lloyd Thompson family of birds, as David said. Once the gene had been imported, the orignial cross was culled. After many years,sometimes a decade, after hundreds of generations of pairing best to best, from the Pensoms and Thompsons, he was able to produce the type and performance that was second to none...kinda like when they created the Birmingham Roller to begin with! LOL! Turners real mastery was in his ability to select and pair birds for quallity performance and type and produce it consistantly! As a result, he has produced one of the fastest growing and most sought-after families of rollers in the sport today...based on the quality of their performance.
Naylor....if you know of men who say they breed a high percentage of rolldowns from the Turner family, I can assure you that it is of their own making as with any family of birds where one pairs two hot birds together. In '05 I bred three rolldowns out of 100 that I raised from this family. This year I have raised five out of 200 birds raised. I'm very pleased with those percentages. In disucssions and visits around the counry to lofts of many other men who breed this family, I can tell you that, of those I have seen, this percentage appears to be consistant. My brother is breeding Jaconettes and he is producing two to three times as many rolldowns...not because of any fault in the Jacs...but because he paired hot birds together! And because Danny Horner is producing hotter birds....easy mistake, no matter what family you breed. But then, I have relied heavily on the advice of Jay Yandle and Joe Bob Stuka who have been breeding this family for many years, in making pairings, to keep from making the same mistake. Not everyone has that luxury.
Jay......Joe Bob's Starley crosses are relatively new for him...the last two years. The jury is still out on the success of the crosses. I have discussed Joe Bob's breeding and crosses with him at great length, in person. He emphasizes, that of all the families of rollers that he has seen around the world, in his opinion, none has the work rate, speed and quality of the Turner birds, which many men now refer to as South Carolina birds to avoid he petty prejudices of a few roller men. Joe Bob is far from alone in that opinion. To be honest with you, the biggest fault of this family of birds that I have seen, is that a percentage of them lack the ability to vary the depth of their roll. As a result, we end up losing a few top quallity birds with excellent speed, work rate and quality performance at scoring height, because they roll 30 feet from 20 feet over the loft coming in to land. And to be honest, once again, I have seen that in several other families of rollers. So Joe Bob has tried to bring in rollers with more control, like the Starleys, at about 1/8th to 1/16th level to see if this could be improved. In the first generation he got additional control, but he lost speed and quality so he has gone back to the South Carolina birds to get it back....time will tell if he is successful. Others, like Jay and David and most others, myself included, just suffer those losses and keep breeding and selecting those birds that demonstrate more variable depth control. But I can tell you that it is no fun making a decision to exclude a bird rolling once a minute, 20-30-40 ft. with excellent speed and quality, from the stock loft, just because he bumps on landing sometimes.
You are right Kevin Naylor....it is sad that if one admits to flying certain families....you can expect to be bashed by a small minority of roller men. However, I don't think Joe Bob or Jay suffer much bashing. That would be a pretty stupid thing to do. Like most who breed this family, they let their birds do the talking for them. If one flys yellows, he can expect an equally ignorant small minority of men to bash them...even if you fly Jacs....you might endure bashing from an ignorant small minority; and if you fly pedigree Pensom birds, you can expect to be bashed by an ignorant small minority. It's just irrelevant, men. Select your family of rollers to breed based on the performance you see and like in the air. To hell with anyone else's opinion of them, especially those who have never seen them fly!!
YITS,
Cliff
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motherlodelofts
949 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:13 PM
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Cliff , you named off crossed up color birds in one breath and said that they weren't in another, same deceit as usual.
JoeBob had two color birds in his kit and how many families that he has been working on for how many years ? give it a break your all wet.
And why do they have to crossed with other families? SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT , because they can't stand on their own is why.
...................................................................PS. you wrote "To be honest with you, the biggest fault of this family of birds that I have seen, is that a percentage of them lack the ability to vary the depth of their roll. As a result, we end up losing a few top quallity birds with excellent speed, work rate and quality performance at scoring height, because they roll 30 feet from 20 feet over the loft coming in to land."
.................................................................LOL LOL LOL LOL , are you frigging kidding me !!! I get "some" of those also, I call them overcooked culls though , I'm just kinda funny that way , funny you would call them top qaulity birds.
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2006 10:39 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
219 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:41 PM
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Cliff,
Joe Bob gave Starely like a 1.7 for quality and 1.6 in depth. I think that is what he gave them the year he judged them.. He just wrote a post on Velroll explaining how they were one of the best quality kits he had ever seen.. Now how did that slow his Colored Carolina birds down? That was almost funny.. And last year it was the starley birds,, this year its the Danny Courtney birds.. Lets see, 4 of his 11 bird team were bred by Danny.. How many of the others had Starley.. We all pick up little things that are said by the men flying the birds.. So if the Turner birds are the answer,, why are all these other famillies being flown in the comp kits and the Turner birds getting the credit?? Hmmmmm Oh, yea it only takes one rare colored roller in a kit to make it a kit of Turner birds.. Once again, half truth to confuse the masses.. Just my opinion,, and I know how you love my opinion,, SMILE KGB
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birdman
229 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:42 PM
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Scott, Maybe I'm too tired to fully understand that last comment, but you're saying that you believe the Turners need to be crossed because they have too much roll (SPLAT SPLAT)from a cross eons ago that DIDN'T roll?
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MILO
22 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:42 PM
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Wow.
Same subject seems to get the same guys all riled up. I find too often guys defending what they are working with for the wrong reasons. It's like guys are "forcing the fit."
I raise the bloodlines I do for one single solitary reason: The most incredible spinners I have ever seen in my life, had this blood behind them. It's that simple. When I was a kid, I was blessed to be able to fly out many, many families. I made my own observations, and based on the best the roller world had to offer, I chose to work with a particular line of birds. If the best roller I had ever seen, was a pink polka-dot, long muffed, crested bird...you can bet that's all I'd have...LOL I would be proud to say I have excellent pink polka-dot, long muffed, crested "Rollers." Maybe this is why so many get so bent out of shape. They truly believe they have the best birds in the world. I find quite often some guys need to just get out of their yard.
But fortunately, as fate would have it, I am proud to say I have excellent "Birmingham Rollers." LOL There are two entirely different arguments in this thread of posts, and quite frankly, a lot of confusing material for new fanciers. The purist and color camps understand these arguments quite well, but to others, it may as well be Latin.
My advice to new fanciers would be to see them all...and base your program on the best you have seen. For those of you are that are defending a cause....be honest with yourself and take a good look if your birds are as good as you are claiming.
Play nice guys...
c
ps. Oh, Cliff - you get a prize for the longest most confusing post EVER.
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2006 10:46 PM
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nicksiders
847 posts
Nov 16, 2006
10:55 PM
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Is anyone flying Turner/Roberts birds exclussively that are doing well in competition?
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Snicker Rollers
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knaylor
301 posts
Nov 17, 2006
12:58 AM
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You are right Kevin Naylor....it is sad that if one admits to flying certain families....you can expect to be bashed by a small minority of roller men.
Cliff, when did I say this?? You keep bring up Joe Bob and like I said before a friend of mine bought birds from him and he said that he doesnt mess whith the corored birds and he has brought new blood in thoughout the years to stabalize the Turner stuff. You also talk about how David does well in his region... Who is in his region? Not bashing just wondering because I dont know.
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2006 1:05 AM
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knaylor
302 posts
Nov 17, 2006
1:01 AM
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David, that is very interesting.... A little while back the founder of your club was saying that no one in your club knew how to judge, and now you are certifying birds. Who is doing it?? I know the NBRC has a certifying program but no one is using it because it holds no merrit. It only is a selling point...Hmmmmmmmmm.....
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AIREDALE
35 posts
Nov 17, 2006
2:39 AM
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Cliff, I really liked your post,very informative.As far as the Turner family is concerned, they seem to be poular all over the country.Most breeders in this area seem to favor them and not because of Color.I'd venture to say that birds for sale on the internet are more popular and the seller gets more response when the birds are listed as Turner birds.James Turner has made a great contribution to the breed,lets not bash him.
John
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AIREDALE
36 posts
Nov 17, 2006
2:40 AM
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Cliff, I really liked your post,very informative.As far as the Turner family is concerned, they seem to be poular all over the country.Most breeders in this area seem to favor them and not because of Color.I'd venture to say that birds for sale on the internet are more popular and the seller gets more response when the birds are listed as Turner birds.James Turner has made a great contribution to the breed,lets not bash him.
John
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Ballrollers
483 posts
Nov 17, 2006
4:26 AM
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Pretty smooth, Naylor....post something outrageous...then when someone calls you on it, remove the post and then question the man who responds....that's low , man...about what I would expect....Oh, Kevin, and you are right, Joe Bob doesn't mess with color birds......but he breeds the Turner family of rollers for performance and quality, with a few outcrosses from time to time. OK, now that I have responded, you can delete your post...Hehehehehe.
Scott and KGB...bless your hearts....I don't think there's any hope for you! LOL! The truth is right there in your face and you refuse to acknowledge it! It's OK,guys. That's the Scott and Kenny we all know and love! LOL! Scott, you are right...Joe Bob's kit had three or four birds that displayed or carried color modifiers.....but the whole kit was 80% or better of the Turner family, just as I said before...I'm talking about the performance of a family of birds...you're hung up on the color of some of their feathers....Kenny...you are also correct. It was the performance of the Starley's that year he judged that convinced him that they might provide the additional variable depth control he was looking for without sacrificing speed and quality. That's when he brought in the crosses. And yes, he is flying some Courtney birds now that were given to him. Danny gave Joe Bob his A and B kits when he had to get out of the hobby because of his health. Hell, he'd even fly or cross in some KGB or Campbell birds if liked what he saw!! LOL! During the Fall Fly, he told us that he was flying the Courtney birds to allow him to stock more of his own family and still be able to fly and compete with good birds...Funny, he didn't do as well with somebody else's birds as he did with his own Turner family, did he?
I guess our readers will have to decide whether to believe somebody like me who lives nearby and who sees Joe Bob's kits fly every month and talks with Joe Bob regularly and breeds some of Joe Bob's birds, and knows the bloodline, or someone like you guys 3000 miles away who has never seen one of his kits fly or handled bird one, and claim to know the man and his birds based on a few isolated internet posts pulled out of context! You know what?.....if you guys keep this up, I'm going to post some of Joe Bob's personal e-mails to me to support what I'm saying...so watch it, guys! I don't want to make you look any more like fools than you are already doing to yourselves on this site! LOL! I love you guys! It's good to be back in the middle of it with you!
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2006 4:32 AM
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Ballrollers
484 posts
Nov 17, 2006
4:37 AM
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Nicksiders,
Is anyone flying ANY FAMILY exclusively and doing well in competition? Most every roller man I know has a few birds from other families that he flies, as well, from time to time.
Yits,
Cliff
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J_Star
669 posts
Nov 17, 2006
4:54 AM
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Dave, you got your reinforcement battalion and brought in the big guns!! Just kidding…Let us keep it as clean as possible and have fun along the way. If any of you out there gets offended easily to heated discussion like this topic, then please don’t be part of this discussion. ……Jay
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
840 posts
Nov 17, 2006
5:23 AM
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Jay.Yes and just in time too.I was runnin out of ammo.Just kiddin.LOL. I could go on for days but I just have to many things going on now.Hunting,putting pairs together for 2007 and just trying to keep up with everyday things.Birds take up a lot of my daytime hours when I am not hunting.Flying 8 kits and got two more to get in the air before the weather turns nasty.
This topic is like some of my projects.Keeps some from getting bored.LOL. David
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katyroller
84 posts
Nov 17, 2006
7:09 AM
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Motherlodelofts, I agree, a good bird is a good bird anyway you look at it. The rest of this post is DEFINITELY not directed at you or anyone in particular. Maybe some people can learn something from it. The folks I am talking about were some pretty knowledgeable roller men. It just seems that alot of back biting goes on in this hobby, too many personalities with too many opinions that don't know when to be quiet. We have all heard it and read it. The usual, I had that family before and mine were crap, so they are ALL crap. The fact I didn't know know what the hell I was doing isn't important though. Or my favorite, I've never had any good birds that were a certain color(s)so all birds that color(s) can't be good and must be mixed breeds. Again, forget the fact I think I know everything and can't shut up long enough to learn from someone else. :/
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knaylor
303 posts
Nov 17, 2006
7:15 AM
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Cliff, I did not delete anything. JSTAR and Tony can back me up. My post that are showing are the only ones i have posted have not deleted anything. It sure is funny that you always try and go personnel on things though. I will not stoop to your level.
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JMUrbon
50 posts
Nov 17, 2006
7:57 PM
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Boy this is a hot one.LOL. I to seen the infamous tape many years ago and was pretty much disgustaed at it but hey that doesn't mean that James wasn't able to breed some pretty dam good rollers. Ther are still some nice colored rollers out there from James BUT not near the percentage as the natural BR colors (all of them). This topic has been hashed out for decades and still getting the same results. Either you like it or you don't. I DONT but that is my choice since I feed my birds and to the guy that does like them you feed them so its your choice.
I do truly wish this crap would stop popping up because all it does is create animosity and very little if any good has ever come out of one of these color threads. Just insults and opinions. Joe Urbon
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fhtfire
641 posts
Nov 17, 2006
8:13 PM
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AMEN>>>>BROTHER JOE!!!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Sourland
84 posts
Nov 18, 2006
5:24 AM
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Joe and Paul. Double AMEN. Does everyone realize that they paint a picture of themselves through their posts? If you don't give a damn, fine. If you do, why not strive for a positive image for yourself and the hobby ?
Geo.
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2006 5:25 AM
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belle
39 posts
Nov 18, 2006
6:05 AM
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That is a good way to put it, posts like this one is way I don't show bantams because every buddy just wanted to fight like bunch of little girls and no one would give a answer.
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Ken west
5 posts
Nov 18, 2006
7:26 AM
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I wish this back and forth about color would stop. That's why they made STRAWBERRY and VANILLA. Ken
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Electric-man
27 posts
Nov 18, 2006
8:32 AM
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I would like birds from both catagories, make my own opinions. I feel until I experience it for myself, that a real conclusion can't be made in my mind, no matter what I am told.The people that have actually experienced flying both types of birds seem to hold the most water with me in their opinions, but I will have to find out myself before I'm satisfied.
To me this reminds me of the Republicans and the Democrats, one seldom convinces the other that they are right or wrong.
This site has taught me a lot of things and realy opened my mind up to a whole new world and I thank you guys for that! But I am going to turn away from this site until this subject dies. It does paint a picture and its not been a very pretty one.
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