Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
823 posts
Nov 18, 2006
7:22 AM
|
Snicker Rollers wrote:
=======================
"I have a special squeeker that has demonstrated a degree of intelligence that I have not seen in awhile. The first day it trapped without coaching; it sits on the top row with the bullys; it tested its flying ability first off without hesitation; it is curious about me and all the things around it; it has that look already that tells everyone who sees him that he is good. You can see that he is trying to figure things out. Has no fear of me. Now, I hope he will spin with the same grace. Silly ain't I?"
=======================
Hey Nick, here is some food for thought, I suspect only 2 likely scenarios will play out with this bird:
Scenario 1: It will fly in your kit and be taken by a predator or lost in an overfly, etc…tears will be shed over what could have been.
Scenario 2: It will fly in your kit, show that it is the champion you suspected it was and then be put in the breeder loft. Pop the cork you da man.
If you don’t experience the first case scenario, then you will “endure” the second case scenario: flying it for 1 or 2 seasons and sweating out that scenario 1 doesn't happen the entire time.
I would like to introduce a 3rd scenario: Be conservative. Pull the bird now and stock it until old enough to breed from it.
Why? If this bird is really the champion you hope it is, then it will pass on its traits regardless if it’s flown out.
The benefit is you eliminate the risk of losing it AND you will get the opportunity to see what its offspring can do. With all the potential risks to flying this bird out, why take the chance of losing it when all you will end up doing with it is breeding anyways?
Where I would go with scenario 1 is if I already had birds just like this one in my breeding loft and one more would not matter in the long run.
Where I would go with scenario 2 is if I don’t mind running the risk of losing it because time means nothing to me and I will eventually produce another one like this some day anyway.
Like I said, this is food for thought…
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2006 8:41 AM
|
RB&R
81 posts
Nov 18, 2006
8:44 AM
|
Tony, post a picture of that possible champion. I have a question, how can you tell a champion bird. it has to reach certain requirement, i mean depth, speed, and frequent. or as long they roll good with kit.
Andrew
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
824 posts
Nov 18, 2006
9:10 AM
|
Hey Andrew, I am referring to the bird Nick was talking about in his other post. The one that was looking special to him.
My take on his post was that maybe this bird is showing signs (character) of a high quality roller which if flown out might turn out to be a champion?
Do you think Nick was only thinking it was an unusual roller or that this one might be special (champion)?
Read what I said again. I separated his post from mine with quotation marks. Let me know what you think.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
fhtfire
644 posts
Nov 18, 2006
11:13 AM
|
Tony,
I agree 100%...if a bird catches your eye like that..why not...it has to be a special bird....do it...or you can end up like me....losing the fastest bird you have ever bred....to an overfly...funny..Tony we were just talking abou that bird the other night and talking about stocking it and then..BAM...Gone]\\
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
motherlodelofts
952 posts
Nov 18, 2006
3:20 PM
|
Can a good roller be too smart ? I think so , when Nick described that bird the only thing that came to mind was "stiff" .
Fly the crap out of it and see ,expression changes on birds once start going through the roll stages.
Now if you get a bird like this that is full of Roll you have something, that is if it reproduces.
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2006 3:22 PM
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
825 posts
Nov 18, 2006
5:24 PM
|
Stock it and fly the crap out of the young.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
George Ruiz
119 posts
Nov 18, 2006
6:06 PM
|
I would agree with Scott, it sounds as if this bird has good TEMPERMENT.
CHARACTER can only be seen in a roller by flying it out.
Nick do yourself a favor and fly that bird out it will save you a lot of time and frustration.
Nick breeding out of stock that has not been AIR TESTED is not something I would reccomend to anybody thats trying to build a family of birds that can hold there own in competition.
just my opinion
George
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
826 posts
Nov 18, 2006
6:33 PM
|
Hey George, I have a 30 to 40 foot spinner cock of high quality which I flew out and that is the third generation down out of 2 previous generations of cocks that NEVER flew a day outside the loft.
This cock has held up in my A-Team for a year and now is in the breeding pen. Now after 13 years I guess I know my birds, but I have done this more than once and have always had good results when I have done it.
Without getting mystical, I think one can develop a 6th sense about his family based on years of observation and various matings.
I know it sounds right to say "fly it out", I generally agree with that statement myself, however, there are times when something inside me says "stock that bird"!
We all run the risk of losing birds everyday we fly (ask Paul), however, if you feel that there is one that is special and losing it before you can breed from it does not bother you than fly it. If you are going to worry about losing it for the next year, stock it.
Now this is my opinion, I know it goes counter to the myth, er, that is, I mean the popular saying of "fly it out" but it IS my opinion. Nick can and will do whatever he darn well pleases. (shhhhh...Nick, stock it...LOL)
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
807 posts
Nov 18, 2006
7:24 PM
|
My inital response would be right with Scott. To me, based on my experience, that description spells stiff pigeon. Of course, it is really just a description and we have no way of seeing all of these things ourselves, in person, to accurately draw a conclusion.
I have only had one youngster that just after weaning to the kit box, something about the bird said this one is special. This one has the look, the feel, the temperment. I'm one of the fly it to know what it's about like Scott and George mentioned. There were several times before this bird started rolling that my gut said park this pigeon to avoid losing him. But I didn't. He ended up being one of the later roll developers and was probably lacked the most frequency of any bird from that family. But what he did have was super fast spin and was 40+ deep, when he rolled. He didn't roll much, but when he did it was exceptional. And yes I did eventually park him.
|
fhtfire
647 posts
Nov 18, 2006
10:26 PM
|
I totally agree with flying out birds. Every bird in my loft has been flown out except one pair. That pair is a producing very good birds...They are Ruby Rollers...I purchased as young. Anyway..I do agree with flying the bird out...the fact is..I have flew birds out and they did not produce shit....and I have had them produce very good spinners. I have pulled some young from my young bird team that were developing into good birds and gave them to a new flier and told him to breed from them based on what I know about my birds as a whole and out of what sire and dam the birds came from...guess what...they were not flown out and produced very good birds...I have seen them in action....was it luck...yes...but this sport is made up of luck...LOL!! The one rule in this sport is....do what works for you...Nick..if you are one that never really has gut feelings and this bird is just in your head....you will never know unless you breed from it...this may be one of those special occasions that it may be a good thing...YOU WILL BE PISSED if you see a hawk carrying off that bird and it is rocking and rolling...Honestly...what does it hurt to pull the bird and breed from it...fly the young and see how it produces. Would I make a habit of pulling birds and breeding from them...HELL NO...you can go chat on the other site if you want to pull birds as squeekers and stock them.....The truth is...nobody has seen this bird and they are making judgments...based on how someone "explains" this bird...explaining and seeing are to different things...and Nick..I know you and if you are feeling something special...pull the bird and breed from it...you have enough kit birds....you have enough stock birds...one might call this...a side project....as long as you call it that..it will be excepted..LOL!! Just pull it and breed it....just don't make a habit of it...you have raised rollers long enough to earn the right to pull a young bird that you have a feeling about and see what happens.....if the bird sucks and produces nothing...then nothing lost but a nest space...if the bird produces a high % of champions...you are a super star breeder...LOL!! Again...the odds are in your favor if you fly out the bird...Would I do it....yes I would if I a bird that just gave me a feeling strong enough to go against my grain....but if it did...I would pull it....like I said...I have good breeders...2 and a half kits...so what is the harm...
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
842 posts
Nov 19, 2006
3:57 AM
|
Nick.If you can afford to lose it go ahead and fly it.Like you said it was a Special roller and you seen it right away.I would Stock it and fly its young.You won't know for a year or two one way or the other anyway.If it is that Special roller you have a big jump on things.If not what did you lose except some extra feed.
I have had a couple rollers that caught my fancy even befor e weaning them.I didn't care if they ever produced anything good.I liked them and a hawk was not going to get them unless they did it thru the wire.So far both have produced good young.As Tony said if you know your family chances are things will turn out good.My opinion.David
|