Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
828 posts
Nov 20, 2006
6:51 AM
|
Hey All, remember, we are talking about a hobby and the myriad reasons people have for having one. The level of satisfaction each person will derive will be based on motivations and ability to invest time and resources.
Some people build a ham radio set from parts and get immense satisfaction from it; others just want the finished radio and derive satisfaction from talking to others across the globe. Is one better than the other? Is one right the other not?
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
J_Star
675 posts
Nov 20, 2006
8:57 AM
|
On the same token, I used to love to buy old cars, such as Camaros and Mustangs and rebuild them to be show cars. The problem is by the time the project is done, I am all beat up, tired, out of money and out of interest. The car end up sold to somebody with the fraction of what I put in it. Now I don't bother, I buy the car finished from somebody who is wearing my old shows. He end up putting the time, money and effort and I end up enjoying the fruits. The same is true for everything else. Rollers are no different because in a few seasons worth of breeding the family will be labeled mine anyway. You might disagree folks, but the way I feel about it is, the minute the original breeder took money in exchange for the birds, those birds are mine and mine alone and he agreed to revoke ownership....Jay
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2006 10:53 AM
|
nicksiders
853 posts
Nov 20, 2006
10:28 AM
|
Build it from spare parts and then it is YOURS a lot quicker and you not just managing somebody elses birds. Select your spare parts with care and the success is(or failure) is all yours. It is a blast
Just my opinion.
What is the glory in just reaping in on somebody elses hard work. I almost did that just recently.
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
831 posts
Nov 20, 2006
10:32 AM
|
Hey Nick, so you want to build the radio from parts. That's what trips your trigger. Some want the built radio because they want to talk right now. They still have to properly take care of the radio though. Thanks.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
rollerman132
27 posts
Nov 20, 2006
10:37 AM
|
It’s a live Dr Tony It’s a live! Are we building birds from spare parts now? Just kidding, most who want to build their own family do it for self satiation. It might even be their way of separating them self’s from the originator of the strain.
|
Mr.JX
23 posts
Nov 20, 2006
10:48 AM
|
Its like kids the fun part is making them. lol
|
J_Star
677 posts
Nov 20, 2006
11:24 AM
|
I believe it is an ego thing....Jay
|
bman
91 posts
Nov 20, 2006
11:28 AM
|
I'm glad Thomas Edison,Henry Ford and a few others had a ego than or we all be riding our hoses in the dark.LOL
----------
Ron
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
832 posts
Nov 20, 2006
11:52 AM
|
Hey Ron, they wanted to make a good living! LOL
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
814 posts
Nov 20, 2006
1:55 PM
|
Creative animal husbandry and automotive design and manufacturing are totally different things. Bottom line is some of the most successful flyers today started with some good stuff, then used other birds to tweak them to their liking, creating their own family in the process. If someone had convinced them that was a fruitless and time-wasting effort, those birds wouldn't be here today. The original Jaconette family is a prime example of a combination of parts and peices assembled to create what Richard wanted.
|
bman
94 posts
Nov 20, 2006
2:04 PM
|
Jay,
Good point.I agree it certainly is a way to get a leg up when starting out but don't you think "thinking outside the box" can SOMETIMES give better results.
----------
Ron
|
bman
95 posts
Nov 20, 2006
2:12 PM
|
Brian,
As usual your command of language far exceeds mine.You put my thoughts to paper perfectly.
----------
Ron
|
katyroller
88 posts
Nov 20, 2006
7:12 PM
|
I look at my birds like I do my cars. Buy the best I can, then personalize to taste. Hopefully the end product will be better than the original. Of course the end result may or may not suit everyones' tastes, remember who paid the bills and workload. Like anything else in life, we are all free to have an opinion but are we truly free to always express it?
|
George Ruiz
127 posts
Nov 20, 2006
9:13 PM
|
If I coudnt buy one that was proven in big flys I would probaly try to build one since it would be the same as starting with a unproven family .
george
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
835 posts
Nov 20, 2006
10:58 PM
|
No its not. Backyard flyers can have good birds too.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
motherlodelofts
957 posts
Nov 21, 2006
7:09 AM
|
You have to build it either way, buying true stock birds is not an easy thing to do,even if you do you are lucky to pull in even one or two tops,for the most part you have to find them yourself and build around them.
You can't just buy into a family and be off and running , it just doesn't work that way.
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2006 8:10 AM
|
nicksiders
856 posts
Nov 21, 2006
7:19 AM
|
Right on Scott
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
fhtfire
651 posts
Nov 21, 2006
9:43 AM
|
George,
Buying birds that are proven in big flys....does not mean anything. If you are basing a purchase on how a family scores in the big flys....that is not the way to do it. You are talking about 2 times a year the birds have to score big..to prove there worth...that my friend is a crok. Usually you can take the 10-15 in some regions and they have the best birds...it is just a matter of getting them ready. Some peak...some do not...the ones that are consistantly on the top may not have the best birds....they are the best managers of there birds. In this sport it s 20% birds and 80% manager. I know people that have birds from the TOP fliers in the country and do not like them...or can't get a handle on them. I had some of Scotts birds and I could not get a handle on them...and on any given SUnday...I would put Scotts birds up against anyone in the country. They did not fit my husbandry style. I do have some of his birds in my A-team. Then I know people with birds from and unknown flier and they are damn good...Like Mort Emami...everyone asks..who is this guy...he won the Utah State Fly numerous times...lots of good fliers in Utah...Look at Tony...I have his birds and I really like them...and he did not have high comp numbers....Comp scores mean nothing.
To get a good family of birds...you have to talk to people who have seen them....or judged them at local flys.....or fly them......that is how it works. For example...if you wanted to get a round from me...(If I was selling) LOL!! you would talk to Kevin Naylor..he has judged my birds...Bill Crider, Chuck Roe, Dwight Wallace, Steve Bills.....Guil Rand...people who are in my region or people who have judged them and ask..hey how are his birds....the local fliers see a persons birds more than a once a year score..they see the birds at least twice a month...or see the birds for yourself......look at my Starting out article...I had numerous strains from top fliers...you just have to take a test drive...like Scott says..you have to be a collector at the begining...then circle the wagons around a select few...and dump the rest....most of all..you have to keep good records and fly the strains together...seperate....and so on for a couple of years....and then you find what you want.....a fancy name and a score does not mean anything...but it is a start.
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
C.J.
724 posts
Nov 21, 2006
11:28 AM
|
Guys I don't care if you buy the best birds in the country, if you don't know what you are doing they won't perform. I have given guys birds that were excellent at my home then received a call worried because they weren't rolling well. It turned out he was over feeding them and not flying them enough. If you don't know how to work with the birds it doesn't matter what breeding is in them. Atleast those of us who put our blood sweat and tears into our birds know them better than anyone. I personally would not trade the experiences and learning I have had with my family for the best birds in any country. Like I said before it takes time trial and error to get the best out of your birds. The guys out there who are trying to jump to the front of the line slow down man learn and in turn you and your birds will be better for it. Its like making love to a woman romance them a little don't jump in and say lets go lol
Just my thoughts
C.J.
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2006 11:32 AM
|
J_Star
680 posts
Nov 21, 2006
11:56 AM
|
From reading all them post, the conclusion that I get from all them opinions is 'damned if you and damned if you don't.' (lol) So to summarize, which way is it?...In regard to the ‘Think out side the box’ and the Richard Jaconette assembling his strain, my answer would be that R. Jaconette was a master at breeding, selecting and culling. That mastery can not be achieved and mastered by the novice. You need several years under your belt before attempting doing such a thing. You still cannot make chicken soup out of you know what just because we need to think outside the box. Thinking outside the box is an excellent way to get us out of the backyard and under other kits……Jay
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2006 12:04 PM
|
bman
102 posts
Nov 21, 2006
12:07 PM
|
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHH
That's the sound of me throwing up my hands!
Buy an establish family so you can be accused of looking for the easy way or start your own family and be comdemed to a life of failure!!!!!!!
Jay you sort it out I surrender.
----------
Ron
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2006 12:08 PM
|
J_Star
682 posts
Nov 21, 2006
12:32 PM
|
Ron, I think we are missing the connecting dots here. What I am saying is start with the best that you can afford. I am not talking about a flock, rather a pair maybe two. Foster as much as you can from them and fly them hard to determine the best offspring. Then like Scott said you hone in around the best you get and circle the wagon around those individual and go from there. Select the best of the best and cull hard. Selection is the key and the way I look at selection is keeping the offspring that exhibit a performance better than the weaker parent. I assure you that if that methodology is followed, in no time you would have the best kit around…..Jay
|
ROLLERMAN
43 posts
Nov 21, 2006
1:10 PM
|
LOL
THE AMERICAN WAY LET SOME ONE DO ALL THE WORK AND WITH ALL ARE MONEY. WE WILL JUST BUY SUCCESS. BUYING SOME THING THAT NOTING AND MAKEING IT GREAT IS A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THE BUYING SOME SOMETHING GREAT AND TRYING TO MAKE GREATER, HOW WILL WE EVER LEARN. IF WE LET SOME ELSE DO IT FOR US.
AL
|
Heyyou
65 posts
Nov 21, 2006
1:39 PM
|
Some of you are looking at this totally the wrong way. It is supposed to be a hobby and therefor fun. If it ain't fun don't do it. If it is going to frustrate you, then buy a fishing pole and sit and read a good book. If you aren't going to derive any pleasure from your endeavors and just enjoy the hobby and sport, then go to the mall and just look at girls. It should be enjoyable just watching them fly and experimenting with what you have to see what you might get. Also the associating with others that like rollers has to be added in there, they are some great people, and most are very unselfish. Just my opinion, Bill
|
fhtfire
652 posts
Nov 21, 2006
1:43 PM
|
You don't have to buy success...and if you do have to..we are talking pigeons...the cost is not that much. I myself have done both...I received top quality birds for free and I have paid for them. The birds I got for free were not because I was some special person...it is because I took the time to got to fliers houses and see there set up and birds...they knew that I was motivated and serious about the hobby. I did not just go one time...I went to these fliers houses a bunch of times. The next thing I know...I am getting birds handed to me and I put them to work. The other thing is....I kept in touch with the fliers to let them know how the birds were performing and asked questions. You do not know how many birds that I have given away...and never heard a thing from the person I gave them to....but that is a whole other post in itself.
I have also bought birds....I bought some pairs of proven breeders from a good flier...ONE THAT I TRUST....but to get proven breeders...you have to pay. You an get birds from Tony that are loaded with good blood....is 200.00 for two cocks and two hens a good price...it is if you want to start out on the right foot...is that a lot of money....For some...maybe...but if you put it like this...it is a couple trips to the golf course..green fees...beer...lunch..etc...just don't go to the golf course a couple times...it is a matter of what you want more...
It really is not a matter of gitting a loft full of good birds...it is finding those select few and going from there...it is all about having the nerve to get rid of what is not working for you. It is not brain surgery by any means....it is more about using your common sense....there are lots of birds out there to get a start. I have given birds to a guy that came over a couple of times...I pulled 2 cocks and 2 hens right out of my A-team...no charge....I am not the only one that does this...but sitting at home complaining is not going to help...fliers LOVE to have people check out there birds....you give them a call or an e-mail...get involved in this site....and then ASK..if you do not ask..you will not get.....A lot of it is being in the right place at the right time.....I have driven 2 hours one way to watch birds fly...spent a weekend going to different houses and wathching birds fly. It is not about buying or getting for free....it is about collecting some birds and flying them out or breeding from them and seeing what works for you. There are many ways to start out....and they all work...most of the time...fanciers blame the birds...when it is the fancier that has the issues..LOL!!!!....this whole post is about the individual..there is no easy way...but the best way is getting birds from an established fancier....does not even have to be someone who competes...just someone that has good birds..
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
bman
105 posts
Nov 21, 2006
1:43 PM
|
Rollerman I'll send you over a couple of donkeys and let me know when your ready for the Kentucky Derby.LOL
----------
Ron
|
ROLLERMAN
44 posts
Nov 21, 2006
1:57 PM
|
BMAN
YOU HAVEING TROUBLE TRANING THEM DONKEYS. YOU KNOW THERE A LITTLE LIKE PIGEONS.. SOME TIMES IT NOT THE PIGEONS IT THE TRANER. SEND OVER TO ME MAYBE I CANT GET THEM TO RUN A LITTLE FASTER FOR YOU.
AL
JUST JOKEING WITH YOU BMAN
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2006 1:58 PM
|
bman
107 posts
Nov 21, 2006
2:02 PM
|
Roller
LMAO
----------
Ron
|
AIREDALE
38 posts
Nov 22, 2006
10:17 AM
|
Start with a reputable family.Fly em, learn to evaluate em, and educate yourself.With a proven family at least you have a basis to move on. The parts thing is impossible.What parts do you get? Do the parts work the way they should? The luckiest guy in the world is the backyard flyer that enjoys his birds for what they are.He can relax,watch em fly,maybe even roll.He is,nt picky about mating pairs,but enjoys the youngsters they produce.Hassle free enjoyment.Most of us like to tinker with feed,training,genetics and whatever to find that secret formula.We think we can improve it,but that does'nt happen as fast as we would like.If breeding perfect rollers was that easy,someone would have discovered it by now.All families are a work in progress.Building with parts can be fun, but it's not hassle free.If our breeding projects turned out like we wished,we'd be bored shitless after a while.Just plain enjoyment with no strings attached is a rare event.Pigeons are just a hobby.Enjoy em the way you want.Happy Thanksgiving everyone and give your birds a hug. John
|
Velo99
1625 posts
Mar 18, 2008
4:26 PM
|
It`s all a matter of time.
When I was a cub scout we put together a simple model car for a contest. I did it all myself with a minimum of coaching. I did pertty well and didnt get too much glue on the car. I was proud of my accomplishment. Everything was in its place and it all worked. I didn`t even have any parts left over!!!
The big day came and I took my model to the show. I instantly knew I was screwed. Some of the guys had painted and detailed their models. Done all sorts of trick stuff to them. ME I just put it together.It never occurred to me at 9 years old what detail was.
My dad was working a lot of the time when I was growing up so father son time was pretty minimal. Being a kid I was heartsore and dissappointed and a bit jealous of the guys who had taken thier time and payed attention to the details.
----------
V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
|
flo
18 posts
Mar 18, 2008
5:06 PM
|
Great Post.
I am a beginner (3 years) at this hobby but I have read many previous threads. The answer somewhat has to do with how much doe ($) are you welling to spend. There are less fortunate people/ and youngsters who looks to this hobby as a way of relaxation or "fresh air".
if you have the doe, some will get the built, proven radio.
if you don't have the doe to afford it, you pick the scraps and play with it until it suites you best.
if you don't have the doe, but are very fortunate and have many great friends and supporter-than they might donate some of the built radios and you don't have to go through the time.
there are those with does, but rather enjoy starting from scrap until the radio is fine tuned to the way they like.
for me, I would like to pick some new parts here and there and in a few years if I cannot fine tune it to the way I like, I am going to ask for TOny's radios.
just my opinion.
thanks
flo
www.blacked-out-loft.webs.com
|