JMUrbon
71 posts
Nov 25, 2006
11:04 PM
|
I know this is a touchy subject and I have my views on it but I am interested in hearing some of your views on the subject. The Birmingham roller is a performing breed (correct me if I am wrong). Do you think they belong in a show cage. Lets hear your thoughts. Joe Urbon
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2006 11:05 PM
|
W@yne
32 posts
Nov 25, 2006
11:51 PM
|
We have in uk a show once every year a show for flying birds only. The reason for this is to make money for the club regarding entry fees so to boost up the cash in the aerc funds, we also have a auction for birds.Me myself think showing flying breeds is only there to add a bit of fun to the day. I dont think too many people take this show very serious. And reply to your answer jim. No i dont think competition birds ie rollers belong in the show cage.
regards w@yne uk
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2006 11:55 PM
|
knaylor
314 posts
Nov 26, 2006
12:11 AM
|
Joe, I agree with you that they are a performance breed. I do know that alot of flyers like to show them too. Personally I dont show but have no problems with it. To me you cant tell if the bird is good in a show cage. It may look good but that is all. Dont get me wrong I have nothing against showing but its not my thing. i do also know that alot og guys use shows to get together and have a great time which is good for the hobby.
|
RollerJoe
4 posts
Nov 26, 2006
12:33 AM
|
You cant show flying rollers seriouly because there is no standard its down to the judges prefrence if i was to judge a flying roller show the small short beaked orange eyed bird would win every time.Fly on my brothers and bless you all roller joseph.
|
nicksiders
863 posts
Nov 26, 2006
6:33 AM
|
The problem I have with showing performing rollers is that some show thier culls because they look good. I enjoy looking at performing rollers, but its the knowing your not looking at the best performers that dules my interest.
----------
Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 9:29 AM
|
Velo99
669 posts
Nov 26, 2006
7:07 AM
|
Our local show has a performing class.It includes homers rollers and tumblers. One of my birds got best of breed only to be beaten out by a homer.
In my opinion there is a corellation to a bird who has the goods in the show pen as well as a good performer. This is not always the case but it should run pretty true to course. A well put together bird should perform well to some degree.
Then again look at some of the pro sports players who come out of college and are not able to "slow down" the game to a level which they can excel and are eventually relegated to the ranks of a jr college position coach.
We are always seeking a tool to give an edge. The show pen is just another tool and objective opinion on the birds we raise. Pensom was able to pick a good one from the perch.
To a degree as I walked around the show with another year of "pigeon science" under my belt I was able to distinguish some good from bad in different breeds simply by what caught my eye in the bird. Some good traits stuck out like feathering and attitude while others were quite obvious such as a fantail whose stance was inferior and allowed his tail to umbrella over his head and basically remove any chance it had of doing well.
Any knowledge gained is a plus in my book. So many factors in general can be applied to all pigeons as well as our beloved little roller to help raise a better bird and take a step forward.
jmho
ps Maybe we should have a show which excludes any bird that was in a kit that scored under,say 200 points in a competetion.We could possibly narrow down the body type to a more rigid standard over a period of time.How about a show just for certified spinners at the convention? Just another thought.
----------
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 7:14 AM
|
birdman
237 posts
Nov 26, 2006
8:12 AM
|
I enjoy the bird shows, but personally I don't gain any knowledge from viewing a performance roller in a show cage.
All I can see is the birds color, type, eye,etc.. which are all physical characteristics that don't make the bird roll. There are lots of nice looking rollers that standout in a show pen but that alone doesn't make them good performers.
On the ground in a show pen they are just another pretty bird.
|
Velo99
670 posts
Nov 26, 2006
8:54 AM
|
You gotta look at them with an open mind. You said you saw color,type,eyes etc. While you have a number of "new" birds to look at compare eye and feather quality of the different colors. Compare the balance and stance of the types of birds, indicating atitude and character.
The reason there is a standard is because the birds that meet the standard do perform better as a whole.
A bird has to have these things to perform properly: Balanced structure,decent feathering and attitude. Without these things he will not perform to standard.
No balance you get a sloppy roll. Inferior feathering,you get a sloppy roll. No attitude,you get no roll. I know there are those among you who have exceptions as I do.
These points can be seen in the pen. Think about the details of each of the points instead of just seeing birds in a pen. Speak to the breeder and find out its performance characterisitcs. A show is a detailed study of EACH bird entered compared to its standard. How can this information not be useful to some degree?
yits
----------
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
|
MILO
31 posts
Nov 26, 2006
9:50 AM
|
Showing the Birmingham Roller in cages at lawn shows and such has as much validity and importance as me posting a picture of my best A team birds. That's about it. Hey this one looks geat Milo...bla bla bla. Who is to say that a bird someone posts pics of is even a good roller at all? I think it's kind of a trap too. "This one is a champ Milo, dont you agree?" - knowing all too well he just put a rolldown or a stiff in the cage...LOL There is no point in it as far as I can tell. This is strictly a performance breed. Showing this bird in cages makes for good conversation, and that's about it.
c
|
birdman
238 posts
Nov 26, 2006
9:51 AM
|
V99,
What show pen 'standard' are performance rollers judged against each other?
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 9:54 AM
|
W@yne
33 posts
Nov 26, 2006
10:01 AM
|
Chill out guys if this can raise money for a good cause ie your club and get members together to have a good chat like i said we dont take this seriously chillllll
regards w@yne uk
|
MILO
32 posts
Nov 26, 2006
10:16 AM
|
Wayne...
No need to chill, nobody is getting heated here. Lawn shows are good fun and all, but it doesn't hold any water for standards. Is it raining? Why can't the same guys have a fundraising fly-off?
c
|
W@yne
34 posts
Nov 26, 2006
10:30 AM
|
Milo at the aerc they may be up to 200 members at shows. A fly off would be a massive organised event. The thing is we have 8 hr daylight at this time of the year it would be an impossible task and a long schedule.Like i said before it is about meeting new flyers having a chat with older members and overall a good day out and a good way of raising funds for your club . Like i said we dont take the showing seriously just a fund raising event.No i dont think competition birds ie rollers belong in the show cage but if it can get rollermen together and get new and young members interested in this great hobby and raise money then i am all for it.
regards W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 11:56 AM
|
JMUrbon
73 posts
Nov 26, 2006
11:08 AM
|
Well I will ad my opinion on this now that I heard you guys points of veiw. I personally do not show like Kevin said but I do feel that it is a great way for the guys at a local level to get together and BS. As for Kenny I feel that there is no standard for a performing bird in the show cage contrary to what some might have you believe. The ugliest most unbalanced birds can and do roll as well as the rest of them it all boils down to what we want to look at in our loft as to what we breed for. Size doesn't matter as far as roll is concerned. I think the smaller birds can and do roll a bit faster but they can all roll with good style. So I guess in a nut shell Showing rollers in a show pen is not a science and the winner in a show is generally what the judge prefers and not what everyone else prefers. But not a bad thing for the hobby and in fact probably a good thing overall. Joe Urbon
|
birdman
239 posts
Nov 26, 2006
11:49 AM
|
You're right Joe,
There is no show pen 'standard' to judge the aerial value of performance birds. The motor and brains of the bird can only be displayed and judged above our heads.
The shows are a fun place to get together though!!
|
Velo99
672 posts
Nov 26, 2006
1:20 PM
|
Birdman,
They are judged by the NPA standard for performing rollers.
The point I am trying to make is it is an opportunity to study the physical make up of our birds. We speak of flaws in our birds popping up and affecting performance. Some of these might be more apparent if they were shown/judged occasionally. Yet some of you refuse to acknowledge the opportunity to evaluate a bird in a different aspect.
Once again any input can be used to make your program better.
Wayne,this is simply a debate. I like to be the devils advocate occasionally. :)
yits
----------
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
|
motherlodelofts
973 posts
Nov 26, 2006
1:48 PM
|
I think Wayne hit the nail on the head on this one , myself I don't put much stock in birds that do well in shows , allthough you can see the fifference between a bird that has the "potential" to be able to do it verses one that doesn't, the difference between the two can be very obvious.
There are those to that breed for a performance type show bird also , I see shows as both a good thing and a bad thing , the duel purpose and show roller is an example of good going bad , now they are looking at it as a whole new breed as it has become a different animal, but it didn't start out that way , it started as showing a perfomance bird.
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 1:50 PM
|
parlorfancier916
173 posts
Nov 26, 2006
2:42 PM
|
A bird in a cage when it wants to fly and spin doesn't work for me.. I mean some can identify if the birds are true spinners, but for me they are just cr*p in a cage until you see them in the air or on a peice of lawn... My opinion.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 2:43 PM
|
nicksiders
865 posts
Nov 26, 2006
3:05 PM
|
I know of nobody who can pick a good spinner off the perch. I heard Bill Pensom could do it, but I think he could talk pigeon and they told him who was the best....he cheated.
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
joelbanc
18 posts
Nov 26, 2006
4:01 PM
|
I went with those fancy colored birds to all the shows and finally relized after many years that it was not working.
Some Judges like color and others not. Some Judges weren't
very knowledgable and others had a little expiernce with Rollers.
Now I try keeping only serious stuff.
And for what it is worth:
I was told wisely that there is no need to buy from someone
off of online auctions when there is good enough ones
in the state you live at. (Also they will be less costly and you know what you are getting.)
JoelB
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2006 4:02 PM
|
155
630 posts
Jul 20, 2008
11:27 AM
|
good topic
----------
EVILLOFT'S
|
Winroller
12 posts
Jul 21, 2008
1:42 AM
|
Showing your roller
Frying your roller
in competition
All in good time
But i most say it is hard tell just how good is your bitds is if you don't compete against the best of the best.
----------
Erwin
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2702 posts
Jul 21, 2008
5:55 AM
|
Hey Milo, they have "Beauty Contests" right? Does this tell you anything about the woman? Now I bet you and 80% of the guys holding your position watch those with an intense level of interest, don't you guys? LOL
Here is a simple way to validate the "shows", when you fly in the World Cup or Fall Fly, only rollers that have been actually entered and flown (registered) in these world-renowned flying competitions are allowed to register to show.
Now guys can see what true competitive rollers look like in the show pen.
I am sure there are pros and cons to this idea but now we can compare apples to apples, the winners vs the losers and study the actual birds to build contrasts if there are any...
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
Mayo
8 posts
Jul 21, 2008
8:43 AM
|
How many Guys have posted pics of there top Rollers from there top kits?.............. there ya go...." Roller show"!(LMao!)..........MaYo
|
JMUrbon
594 posts
Jul 23, 2008
9:39 AM
|
Mayo in fact there are lots of guys on this forum that have in the past posted pictures of some of their best( as they stated). A show is in no way a tool to evaluate a performing bird. A show is a way to get somebody elses opinion as to what they think a good bird should look like and feel like. I have intentionally put birds that were awsome performers and one in perticular that I personally consider to be the best cock bird I have seen in the air in nearly 30 years. The judge barely picked him up let alone looked at him. That proved to me my theory that there really is no way that even the most experienced can pick a roller out of a show cage. Now I am not saying the bird should have won but as good as this bird was I expected the judge to at least give him the time of day to truely evaluate him. It is a matter of what the judge likes and no two judges will pick the same birds in a show cage. BUT you put 10 birds in the air and let me judge them in the air and I will tell you which are the top 3 birds in that group. Provided nobody is sleeping that day. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
Edgar
345 posts
Jul 23, 2008
1:50 PM
|
Shows are just for fun guys .Edgar
"Amezquita's Loft"
|
ICEMAN710
452 posts
Jul 23, 2008
2:07 PM
|
I agree with edgar.
----------
Gary
|
Edgar
346 posts
Jul 23, 2008
2:09 PM
|
Whats up Iceman.Edgar
"Amezquita' Loft"
|
ICEMAN710
454 posts
Jul 23, 2008
3:06 PM
|
whats up edgar! hows the fly season going?
----------
Gary
|
Scott
960 posts
Jul 23, 2008
3:51 PM
|
My feelings is that unflown birds would be best for showing, in the few shows that I have put a bird into I put work horses straight from the A team in the cage, they were penilized for it, so no more showing for me.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Alton Davis
15 posts
Jul 23, 2008
4:20 PM
|
I am a die hard competition guy and it is my opinion that shows help clubs generate revenues for shirts hats trophies and so on.
Birds that do good in shows are normally well balanced/proportioned birds. Unfortunately this does not tell you if the bird can pull off a high quality spin/roll correctly.
I believe the emphasist on showing or flying is as it always has been up to the individual person. I would love a show to be held where the birds have to first prove themselves in the air before they can be shown in a show pin this would show you more or less what a true Birmingham Roller is suposed to look like.
Just my opinion.
|
Edgar
350 posts
Jul 23, 2008
8:12 PM
|
Its going pretty good gary no BOP since late december Hope im not speaking to soon.Edgar
"Amezquita's Loft"
|