Fr.mike
199 posts
Dec 09, 2006
11:29 AM
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Man! My commputer crashes and has to go to the comp. hospital---I get it back and I missed all the fights! I always miss all the fun!Lol!
Now on to a serious note( at least to me)
I am on my second year breeding. I have some of Steve Agent birds-(Norm Reed) and Rubys from Tony. I bread about 60 last year and I only have 16 left from last years breeding.I locked up everything after the Fall fly because as you can see from the numbers the sky sharks were killing me.Now what I did is take the birds out of the kitboxs and put them in the loft with the breeders-and seperated cocks from hens in two compartments.I did this so I would only have the one loft to feed and water(keep from freezing) Now I am not so sure this was a good Idea.The kit birds could not be remotly called proven.Brian M. judged my birds and some were Just starting to role some were not--but I locked them all up together.Now should I take all th 06 birds and put them back in the kitboxs and start flying them when I srart breeding? I am a bit lost as you can see.I really dont know which breeders from the original stock are producing because their young 06 were just starting when I had to lock them up. So now I feel like I have a big pile of birds and I dont know really anything for certian about any of them.Now I am going to start another season and I feel like I am shooting from the hip.I am stuck and not sure what to do.What would you do?I have thought of flying the 06 birds again and not breeding until I am sure what I have but with 16 birds-The hawks will make short work of them and then I am right back where I started. This also would bump my breeding foward into feb.-march and I would have another group of birds that would not have time on the wing to prove themselves. Then I am right back in the soup I am in now.The answer may be right in front of me and maybe I am just too stupid to see it.The only thing I know is a few of the 06 birds which had shown some promise but never had the time in the air that would make me certian.Brian M. --you saw my birds and my setup what do you think?I am sitting here thinking about what bird to pair up this year and saying too myself-WHY??-why would I pair this bird with that bird--I really dont know enough data on any of them to even make a half baked decision.I am in a "WHOS ON FIRST" situation.I cant tell you how much any help would mean to me right now.Making decisions without any base line seems fruitless. The one baseline I believe I do have is good birds to start with--but how to move forward that is the question????
Thanks in advance
Fr. Mike
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John
27 posts
Dec 09, 2006
2:08 PM
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Mike,
I had the same problem a two years ago. I paired the birds up by using the information that steve had Given me(Prefromance and predigrees). What the breeders did in the air(speed,Depth,Frequency) and the pidgrees, so I wouldn't get them to close.I tired to color balance the breedings and also balance the performances in breeding as well. I didn't want to breed to real deep birds togeter, I didn't want to put to birds that where real frequent together. I didn't want birds bumping, rolling down or flying behind the kit like they have the hiccips( to frequent to keep up with the kit).I tired to keep everything balanced in my breeding until I got a liitle better idea about who produces what( Speed, depth or Frequency).I didn't worry about a click pair, I put the cocks on 3 different hens in a season. This way I could see how the cocks produce on different hens and how hens produce on different cocks.If there was something I had to have I could go back and make more of it. This way I got a good idea of who was carrying what( speed, depth or frequency).I still don't know how well all my breeders produce but I will after this being my 3rd season of breeding out of them What I really like about having birds from Steve is that you can call him and ask any questions you have.He will answer them honestly and completely.He didn't hold anything back about flying or feeding the birds. He told me every thing that was going to happen and it happened just like he said it would.He will give you all the infromation you need to be successful.If you work the birds with the information given then you want have a problem being successful but if you cross the birds,make radical changes to there diet, then you could screw them up or it may take you longer to get a handle on them and become successful. What I like is that Steve isn't the only person doing well with the birds. I the guys in there local club fly the same birds and or doing well with them. I have seen them with my own eyes. They have also done very well here in california. They have only been here for 2 years and they have won the local fly season both years.Rod Fomby and I fly these birds here in CA and he won the club last year and I won the club this year.We both sent some birds to Ronnie Pulvar in NC and he has been doing well with them also. I think Ronnie on here so he could tell more about them then I can. I hope this helps.
John Moore
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Fr.mike
200 posts
Dec 10, 2006
10:44 AM
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Thank you John--I will call steve.It seems if you have real stupid new guy questions as opposed to things like toy stencil and BR standards --you wont get many responses--but I thank you for yours!!It takes uncivility to elicit nearly 200 responses!AHHHH-dont mind me I'm just whineing-anybody got some cheese?Lol
Fr. Mike
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Fr.mike
201 posts
Dec 10, 2006
12:57 PM
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BTW--John I would like to e@mail you--just to trade info my e@mail is 57roller@earthlink.net
Mike
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Velo99
711 posts
Dec 10, 2006
2:57 PM
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Mike,
Start your breeding program on time and keep the kit birds seperated in the 2 kit boxes. After you get some squeaks going put the kit birds in one box and start flying them out again. You need numbers to asess,this is what I would do,I think.
I know you need some fly time but what do you do? Punt,or go for it on fourth and three?
Good Luck Bro
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2006 3:00 PM
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Shaun
386 posts
Dec 11, 2006
1:45 AM
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Mike, I also bred over 60 birds at the same time as you. However, I still have 37 left. The poor ones were eliminated as I went along, but only a handful were lost to hawks and a few others were 'missing in action' losses. So, I've got quite a few left to evaluate.
Your problem is the complete opposite, with so little to go on. I think you should go back to square one, accept that you will have to breed lots of birds to counteract the losses. Only when you've had the chance to see the ones which don't get taken by hawks, will you be in a position to look to the future.
Given your dodgy predator situation, when you're evaluating the birds which survive, there will be two main schools of thought: 1) As soon as you see a really good bird in the air and it holds up for a few months, pull it from the kitbox to use as a breeder; or 2) Fly the good ones for longer before making your decision. You'll be taking the risk that some of your promising birds will be taken by hawks, but the ones that do make it, having held up, say, for at least a year, will have proven themselves much more and you will have greater confidence to use them as breeders. Only you can decide which option is best.
Something else which springs to mind, Mike. For us newcomers, it's easy to become so preoccupied about how our youngsters are doing and which birds will make the best breeders, that we risk losing sight of why we started all this in the first place - to fly some rollers. You still have your original stock with which to breed plenty more. I would get all the others out and fly them. As you say, you learn nothing about them if they're locked up.
Shaun
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
911 posts
Dec 11, 2006
3:09 AM
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Fr.Mike. Glad to see you back up and running.I was beginning to think I was going to have to send Elric to check on you.LOL.
Anyway as Shaun said you have to breed more birds.In our area with the Preds the way they are 150 young a year is about the min. to be able to still have a nice group to work with.I lose about as many a year to Preds as you raised last year.And you are right in the middle of the Hawk Migration Path.This past year has been the worst I have ever seen.When they were migrating my wife and I seen over a 100 hawks at one time circling about a 1000 feet above my kit.I tried to video them but the sun messed up the video.Every now and then a Hawk would dive from the group and make a half hearted attemt at the kit.Never lost a bird but I went on full Lockdown for the next 2 weeks.
So if you want to take a chance with the ones you have left I would keep flying them so you at least have an 11 bird kit to put up this Fall.Chances are the ones left are getting Hawk smart and may be able to survive untill then.If you can't afford to lose anymore then I would pair them up and breed as many as I could this year and start over building a kit.But I have found that if they survive the first year you don't lose many of them to Preds.David
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Fr.mike
202 posts
Dec 11, 2006
12:07 PM
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Thanks to all!! Bluesman(David) Are you flying anything now?I have so few birds(06)left that I am paranoid about putting them back out.Some guys are saying Feb. some are saying April.Man I hope I dont have to wait until April! This summer I had at least two pair of resedent hawks that cleaned my clock.I am not seeing many hawks now but that doesnt mean much.They can see my birds from miles away.I am alittle woried that the 06 birds are fat and sasy and will be easy pickings the first week.Not much I can do about that but trying to pick the best time to throw the dice LOL !
Thanks again
Mike
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
912 posts
Dec 11, 2006
12:49 PM
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Mike.Yes I started flying again on friday of this week.Had them down for 2 weeks of Deer Season.
Flew again today and had birds in the air for over 4 hours(different Kits)and only had one attack.It missed its mark.
Mostly only get one ot 2 attacks from now till Spring.Some days not even that.I usually wait untill late morning/early afternoon to fly.Most have already eaten by then.
But I usually put the older birds up first to test the water and clear the air.David
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BR Rollers
48 posts
Dec 12, 2006
10:50 PM
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FR Mike. Listen to what John Moore had said about Steve's birds. I was very fortunate to have been gifted some of these birds and they are EXACTLY as John stated to me. I started flying about the same time as you did and by Sept. I had some real smokers!
I got eaten alive by the hawks this year as well. I raised about 75 birds and only have 28 flyers left. Of course they killed the best ones as usual...lol
I do have them locked down right now and I know how good they are. Like John said "IF" you don't try to change these birds you will really have something. Ask questions to the people that fly them if you have any doubts. Good luck with yours! I am already having good luck with mine.
Ronnie & Ben Pulver aka BR Rollers
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2006 10:58 PM
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Fr.mike
207 posts
Dec 13, 2006
5:21 PM
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Thanks BR--I talked to Steve--I plan to pair up the same pairs I did last season fo a couple of rounds(as per Steves rec.) and then switch them around.Inorder to beat this hawk situation I will need to breed at least a 100 this year.I am going to start in about 15 days.Last year I started in mid Jan.--but inorder to flyout --that is enough time before lockdown next year I am going to start earlier.This however will have me starting babies on the wing on the return migrations of the hawks. kind of danged if I do and danged if I dont.All I can do is try.
Thanks again to all
Fr. Mike
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