Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
920 posts
Dec 23, 2006
4:40 AM
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Scott.What can you tell about this bird from the pic? David
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Electric-man
76 posts
Dec 23, 2006
5:00 AM
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I know this bird, Dave! Your stirring! Shame on you!LOL Ohhhh, its gonna be a good day!LOL
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2006 5:21 AM
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motherlodelofts
1190 posts
Dec 23, 2006
8:35 AM
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Post more pics Dave, this might be fun
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
965 posts
Dec 23, 2006
8:35 AM
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I'll let others guess with their infinite roller wisdom about how good this bird is.
It is a pretty good looking expression of dominant opal T-pattern blue. Nice looking bird David. Of course I can't tell you anything about what the bird could be like performance-wise because no one can from a photo. Any suggestions are simply guesses to flatter the owner.
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2006 8:36 AM
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STARFIRE
207 posts
Dec 23, 2006
8:41 AM
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Hey Bluesman:
Thats a beautiful bird.Can I have It?I think it would look good in my loft.I could put a crest on it.LOL
STARFIRE
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motherlodelofts
1191 posts
Dec 23, 2006
8:45 AM
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You are a 100 0/0 right Brian, they are all guesses , but there are some things that make guessing a little easier though.
Pictures are pictures , I can take 10 pictures of a bird and still not get one that represents the bird.
Scott
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MILO
72 posts
Dec 23, 2006
10:29 AM
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I'll bite.
The bird appears to have everything "physically" to make it a good roller. Even an excellent roller. The eye looks a bit wild to me. But overall, ya, good specimen. I don't have to photoshop the bird into a dark checker to know that, or feel better about saying that. LOL You get the same result. Now what's in it's little head is a whole different story.
c
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
922 posts
Dec 23, 2006
10:44 AM
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O.K. Here's another one.David
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MILO
73 posts
Dec 23, 2006
10:56 AM
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Don't like it. Alien eye too.
Built kind of like some of the ones Stan posted. In fact your first bird in the post was kind of refreshing to see, given all the junior high swap-meet birds I've seen on the site lately. Nevermind your color agendas, a correctly built roller is just that. Bait the hook and throw it Dave...LOL I'm hungry. I'd love to see more. Just please, stop Stan from posting photos...LOL
c
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nicksiders
1011 posts
Dec 23, 2006
11:58 AM
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I like the first bird over the second bird, but I am not Bill Pensom so I cannot pick a good performer off the perch and I have never known anyone else who could and it is just storys anyway about Mr. Pensom anyway.
The first bird has a small canker on its vent, but other than that it looks good. The color is a little funky so I am sure it has been mongeled at least a few generations ago, but it body shape looks like the type. The second bird has a cough when under stress and its color is also funky.........it too has been mongrelized sometime or another in its genetic background. It just don't look to have THE body type of a BR. Both of these birds I would have to hide when roller friends of mine come over(LOL)
I don't know what to look for in the strength of thier backs without flying them. When I was in competitive weight lifting at 235 pounds I had a friend who was my same height, but only weighed 205 pounds who could lift equal weights. He looked like he had a weaker back, but he didn't.
By the way, that second bird I would not stock.
Wierd ain't it?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2006 7:10 PM
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motherlodelofts
1192 posts
Dec 23, 2006
12:57 PM
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Dave , you gotta watch the backs on those birds , if you have a bird with a slightly weak back at the very least consider that when mating and mate to a strong back bird.
I am with Milo , bird looks on the hot side , plus it looks to be a slightly weak back , but then the feet are shoved forward so it is standing in an un-natual position.
I think that bird is on the ustable side due to mental and physical weakness, if you say "no" I would say keep flying it , but I say that if that bird is rolling it is also a bumper or at the very least has a tendancy to bump,or it just may be on the edge,not sure , either way I would keep flying the crap out of it to see which direction it goes.
As for the second one,I don't even know what that bird is , it is un reconizable to me , that bird isn't even worth commenting on to be honest.
As for qaulity , that is where it gets real real dicy, the most a bird can tell you is that it has the potential , and some have none ,and some are anyones guess , I think that one on top has the "potential" to do it if it is able to hold up.
Just my opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2006 1:06 PM
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George R.
876 posts
Jul 10, 2008
3:35 PM
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what line our these birds
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spinner jim
372 posts
Jul 10, 2008
3:54 PM
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David ,the first bird is what we call in uk a copper bronze and a very nice example too,just my type ,when can you send it lol,jim uk.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2008 3:54 PM
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Ty Coleman
452 posts
Jul 10, 2008
4:32 PM
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Opal Check and the second Opal Bar, They look like Davids Family which i believe are Turner Based.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1889 posts
Jul 10, 2008
5:35 PM
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Nice Opal............
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1890 posts
Jul 10, 2008
5:35 PM
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Nice Opal............
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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Ty Coleman
453 posts
Jul 10, 2008
7:12 PM
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Ty Coleman
454 posts
Jul 10, 2008
7:14 PM
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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George R.
878 posts
Jul 10, 2008
7:26 PM
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Ty
Did Cliff breed those ?
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Ty Coleman
456 posts
Jul 10, 2008
7:38 PM
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It's the same bird in the two pics. No i cant blame that one on Cliff lol he didnt breed him.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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nicksiders
2919 posts
Jul 10, 2008
9:53 PM
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I hear circus music when people introduce those rare colored birds to the forum. I guess they are rollers; just not Birminghams.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Ty Coleman
458 posts
Jul 11, 2008
4:28 AM
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Hey NEW Nick whats going on ? I'm not 100% sure but i think this bird is off of the bird in the pic above, I havnt checked band numbers to make sure with David. But any way good to see you post OLD Nick.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Ballrollers
1342 posts
Jul 11, 2008
9:57 AM
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Spinner jim,
.....a copper bronze, eh? A couple weeks ago we had a discussion about the fact that many genetics factors that have been in Birmingham Rollers from the beginning are just being identified and named today.....for example the "speckled" factor....Most, like "speckled" have gone unrecognized and unidentified for many years, and this continues today...even in the UK. The UK men, at the time, seemed to believe this was impossible among British fanciers and British rollers. Thank you for confirming the possibility for us.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2008 9:59 AM
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W@yne
1476 posts
Jul 11, 2008
11:12 AM
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Cliff the top photo of that bird ain't seen in a British loft that flys in comp im almost sure of that. That bird has had an added ingredient to it. The second picture the blue bronze bar i breed these birds quiet often from the recessive reds in my loft. Tys bird looks a rare color bird also.
Spinner Jim flys badges as a hobby and is not a Birmingham Roller competition flyer.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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www.waynegrovesrollers.piczo.com
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Scott
902 posts
Jul 11, 2008
11:34 AM
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Wayne that bar isn't the same either,that is a cross also.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ballrollers
1343 posts
Jul 11, 2008
11:52 AM
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Wayne,
Whatever you want to call it accross the pond, the "copper blue bar" is likely the result of reduced or dominant opal factors at work. A more reddish bar can also be obtained from the Indigo factor. Whether or not it comes from a cross is debatable, but it supports the contention that the Birmingham Roller has been highly outcrossed by roller men throughout its history, and that it contains many genetic factors which were not, and are not, easily identified; and have been misidentified and misnamed for decades. The identification of Indigo in Calilfornia lofts that swear their birds have never been outcrossed provides additional confirmation. Whether or not the flyer is involved in competition is not really the issue.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2008 11:55 AM
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Scott
903 posts
Jul 11, 2008
12:16 PM
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B.S. Cliff, you are grabbing at straws and trying to mongralize everyones loft and the breed to justify the mongral color birds where other breeds were crossed in for the sole purpose of color.
And you are far more likely to find this stuff in backyard flyers lofts than those who fly competition.
But then on second thought, please Cliff keep breeding the crap out of such birds, and make more and more, there is already enough competition out there.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2008 12:24 PM
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W@yne
1479 posts
Jul 11, 2008
12:47 PM
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Scotty you sure have a good eye. Heres one of my bronze bar young.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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www.waynegrovesrollers.piczo.com
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2008 12:48 PM
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CVRC
242 posts
Jul 11, 2008
1:30 PM
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very nice looking birds guys=>
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Cristian Castro
CM Loft
CVR
WWW.COACHELLAVALLEYROLLERS.COM
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nicksiders
2927 posts
Jul 11, 2008
9:39 PM
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Bronze Kite....I love saying that. It is a phrase taught to me by Brian McCormick.....Bbbbrrrrooonnnzzzee Kite.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Steve_uk
788 posts
Jul 11, 2008
10:35 PM
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So does it perform then?
Steve...
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Ty Coleman
459 posts
Jul 13, 2008
9:52 PM
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Scott, are you sure you want Cliff to start mass breeding? The more people that see them spin are gonna want them and then you will see them every where. The velocity of his birds is gonna be hard to match.You might want to re think that one.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Ballrollers
1344 posts
Jul 16, 2008
12:10 PM
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If I recall correctly, the connect the dots discussion seemed to indicate that WHP told of the many colors and factors present in the BR were due to the BR being produced from the WOE and ODT and all the colors contained there in. The Birmingham roller can contain all the factors and colors identified, misidentified and unidentified in these various breeds of pigeon. The Birmingham roller is in fact a "cultivated tumbler." Maybe we should list again all the colors and factors contained in the basic breeds that the BR was derived from, then re- explain how cock birds can contain two colors and one may remain hidden and/or contain any number of recessive genes. All this is foggy distant history, that brings us to the present spinning roller pigeon that may perform to standard and earn the "title" of BIRMINGHAM ROLLER. What ever definition you wish to embrace, the truth is always in the air, not in a computer post, on a piece of paper, and certainly, not in a color or pattern on a feather. The hobby is for all to enjoy. Be they mongrels or pure breed's, blue checks or dominate opals , only TRUE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS can do it right, do it often and do it straight.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1348 posts
Jul 17, 2008
8:14 AM
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Ty,
I really enjoyed having you and your family here for the weekend. It was good experience for you to see half a dozen lofts of different birds and compare the speed of this family with the others. You got to see some birds culled, some birds promoted, and a solid 1000 pt. performance by the comp kit. The more lofts you visit and the more birds you see, the better roller man you will become. I look forward to your next visit.
Cliff
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spinner jim
378 posts
Jul 17, 2008
3:50 PM
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Wayne the bird at the top that i referred to as a copper bronze is badge marked,ive had badges most of my life and you seem to be confused,if i fly competition birds or not i can stil identify colours and markings ,its in my blood mate,you have white faced birds but no badges ,if i have badges they are not comp bred or related ?????,i have a few badge which are quite deep and brs which are short ,confusing aint it ,jim. (wayne take yer time thinking this one out lol).
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W@yne
1488 posts
Jul 17, 2008
10:29 PM
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Jim i don't know anything about Badge pigeons color, shape, and i don't want to they just do nothing for me OK.
The same as you don't know anything color wise about true Birmingham rollers in England,
Tell me 1 competition flyer that has them colors in there loft Jim just one?
In fact name me a flyer you know that flys Birmingham Rollers in competition even?
How many flys have you been to to see what color is in the lofts of a Birmingham Roller flyer.
Jim at least do your homework please.
Ask Ken Firl how many these rare colors he seen when he came over here and i took him to several lofts around the country.
Jim your Badge pigeons might come in these colors i dont know but you wont get these in any true Birmingham Roller throughout England.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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www.waynegrovesrollers.piczo.com
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spinner jim
380 posts
Jul 18, 2008
12:19 AM
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Wayne ,respect to you mate but if you can show me a true 100% birmingham roller without doubt you win this argument ,jim,
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