Double D
308 posts
Jan 02, 2007
6:06 PM
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If you have a young roller, 5 months of age, and the bird is beginning to do 3' to 5' rolls with good form and velocity - over the long term - will this bird develop the roll the same whether you move it to a kit of active solid rollers or move it to a kit of stiffs? In other words, can a bird who is coming into the roll lose it if left to fly with stiffs or develop it even more and quicker if put with the A-team? Monkey-see, Monkey-do or does it matter, the bird will develop and cultivate the roll the same no matter what type of birds it flies with?
I guess ultimately, my question also has to do with moving the last one or two developing rollers from a kit of young birds. So for example, you start with a kit of 20 21-day old birds you bred and you begin to fly them out, as the good ones begin to emerge, you move them to the A-team. As you get down to what's left, most of which you have a pretty good idea will be culls, you still have one or two birds that are trying to do it but are obviously not A-team birds, YET anyway, do you move them to the A-team anyway to try to develop them since they show potential or do you continue to fly them with the rest of the young birds that you know just aren't going to make it?
Keep in mind, at this point, I do not have a B-team that they can work in until they develop into A-team birds. They are either with the A-team or stay with the young birds.
I look forward to your answers to my questions and your recommendations. Thanks!
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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Electric-man
109 posts
Jan 02, 2007
6:47 PM
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Good question Darin, I have new young birds that should be good rollers just putting them in the kit with older birds. Their my old stock and arn't much account. Their about a year old and the only reason I keep them is they kit like glue.Will this make stiffs out of the new young ones? Once I get enough new ybs to make a kit I will dispose of the old bloodline. Should I keep them seperate?
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jammerlofts
85 posts
Jan 02, 2007
6:54 PM
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val
jmo i would separate them if you intend to rid of them anyway then there really no good why waste your time on them and just like you want the young to pick up the good habits of the older they will pick up the bad habits as well i have had many that kit well but if thats all there doing them i wont waste my time unless you have nothing tto fly then it gives you some entertainment but i would not recomend puting young birds with junk just my thought on it
jc
jammerlofts
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BR Rollers
67 posts
Jan 02, 2007
7:22 PM
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Electricman I had a simular situation last year when I started my kit birds up. What I did was took an old hen someone gave me and put it in the kit box with my young birds. It didnt take long to figure out why the guy didn't want this old hen. My youngsters started flying and she did help alot in getting them to start kitting pretty good. As soon as they started kitting well that old hen was everywhere and coming down to soon. Thats when she was pulled out of the kit.
Let the young birds start flying by themselves maybe add an old bird in to help them kit at first then pull it out.
As far as the stiffs? Well if thats what you like to see flying I recommend Homers...lol. You can raise a good spinning kit that kits like glue, but you need to start with the right stock birds.
Yours in the hobby.
Ronnie
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2007 7:22 PM
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Double D
309 posts
Jan 02, 2007
8:11 PM
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We need to hear from the experienced guys, thanks!
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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fhtfire
760 posts
Jan 02, 2007
8:29 PM
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Darin,
I have noticed that if you move a couple of birds that are kind of in between a youngbird and team of more active birds...I will put those birds in my more active team and see how they do with the team. I have found that the birds really do good and take a step forward...once they know that they will not have to be chasing a kit of young birds after hitting the roll.
I have also found that moving these couple of birds into a more active team...they end up getting a little deeper...because they were holding back with the younger birds that don't really set up. It really is like monkey see monkey do.
Give them about 2 weeks or so of flying with the new team and see how they are doing...right now with me....The kits are fed up and don't show a whole lot of action...so it is easier to put these birds right into a more active team. They seem to learn the ropes better and follow what the older birds do when setting up.
If you give them about 2 weeks and they are landing way early or keeping away from the kit...demote them back down...they are not ready. If they are not kitting and freaking a little...I will not wait the two weeks....once I notice that it is affecting the team overall....I demote the bird back down... IT is not hard to move them in and move them out of the different teams.. during the down time...if you can fly...this is the time to do what you are talking about with newer birds.
If you do have to demote it....just fly like normal and move the bird over in a couple weeks or so. I had to do this with one of my birds...Moved from Young...to B....when I moved to the A-team...the team was just two active and the brid trailed and was having issues...so I demoted back down.....for about 2 weeks or so I then tried again...put her back with the A-team and she is doing just fine now..very active and fits right in.
I really feel that it is a monkey see monkey do to a point....I know what point you are in with getting teams together...so you can try more things.....I would not cosider it at all if I was getting ready for a comp or if the team is just kicking tail.....I do not want to disrupt the team. SO...do it and see what happens..if the bird can't hang..demote it...if it can....you will see the bird shift gears....rock and mother freak'n ROLL!!
Paul
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1010 posts
Jan 02, 2007
9:48 PM
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Darin, your situation sounds unique, and you really only have two choices. Personally I don't start moving young birds until I have a group of older young birds that are active to move a younger rolling bird into. I don't like to move young birds into the A team unless it has been rolling solid for a while. If you want, just move it to the older group and see if it can hang. If it doesn't appear to be disrupting the older birds and seems to fit right in, then leave it there. If not, just move it back to the young bird kit. Those really are your only choices according to the information in the post.
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STARFIRE
282 posts
Jan 03, 2007
1:41 PM
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-Hey Guys:
This is what I do with young birds.I fly all my first round ,maybe.25-32 or so.After a while the young start to roll.When I get 10 -15 starting to roll I separate them into their own kit.Now as time goes by others will start to roll,so I add them too.I never put them with old birds.
my birds are high flyers,so if I put some old ones with the young kit and they sky out ,I'll lose some of the young ones.Young birds are programed by your breeding methods to roll at a certain time.They don't copy other birds and the other ones wont make them spin any sooner or better.You have to let them develop at their own pace.You should know the family you have ,if you've had them for a few years,how long it takes them to come into the roll.
I would advise anybody not to fly old birds with young ones.You don't need to,to get them to kit .They will do it on their own.I've trained them like this for over 30 years and it works well for me.
STARFIRE
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