MILO
100 posts
Jan 08, 2007
4:48 PM
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Hi guys.
I like looking at all the birds in here. I wanted to add a couple of mine and play the expression game. These are two excellent performers, yet different in how they did things in the air. I notice, (general disclaimer)- in this particular family, these aerial traits are accompanied by different expressions. I do feel however, many families follow the same clues. This is not a trap or a trick post. Just wondering what you guys felt on the topic. What do you guys think? Roller voodoo?
c
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Jimbo113
9 posts
Jan 08, 2007
4:58 PM
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Milo,
I must be a bit dense amigo. I am not getting the question. Nobody should know your birds better than yourself, right? What are the expressions in these two that stand out and how do they relate to their work in the air?
Just curious.
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1044 posts
Jan 08, 2007
5:02 PM
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I'd peg the second one as a high flyer, a pinch on the high strung side.
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knaylor
428 posts
Jan 08, 2007
5:33 PM
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Milo, the birds express the cull factor. I will do you a BIG favor and come take them off your hands along with the parents. You shouldnt be breeding these things!! LMAO!!
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MILO
102 posts
Jan 08, 2007
5:54 PM
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LOL No, I'll keep these culls...
Brian....You are right...Want to explain what exactly it was that tipped you off? Also, are there any other clues that may indicate their stages of development? Jimbo, after a long life with rollers, although some familes are anomalies and don't share these traits, many fanciers can spot in the expression of a bird clues that will reveal how it will perform. They can even go to other lofts and spot the same clues in other peoples birds. This is assumed to be voodoo by some, an impossibility. Then, some call it stock sense, and some say Bill Pensom was the greatest of all at spotting this.
c
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2007 6:09 PM
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Velo99
837 posts
Jan 08, 2007
5:56 PM
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Nice birds Milo. The box will be there tomorrow and I have pre paid the shipping.
Thanks Buddy!
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Jimbo113
10 posts
Jan 08, 2007
6:43 PM
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Howdy again Milo. I understand the concept of expression. I just didn't know how to play this game. I didn't see the question, but now I do. So, Now that I look closely I would say the second one was a high flyer, maybe a bit flighty...haha. Brian, what tipped you off on the bird? Inquiring minds just gotta know.
Nice Milo.
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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J_Star
744 posts
Jan 08, 2007
7:16 PM
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I like the henny cocks. They perform supper and not so cocky in the loft. The expression usually very good and awesome in the air and on the perch. That is just my preference.
Jay
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motherlodelofts
1281 posts
Jan 08, 2007
8:02 PM
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Milo, weak is easy to peg, same with strong , but strong with a heavy dose of roll gene and you have roll , without it you have a stiff , in other words it's hard to say but niether are rolldowns or chronic bumpers , or at least sure don't look like it.
As for those two birds , it's hard to say but they aren't weak , "knowing" the birds that you work which is basicly the same as mine I would call the bottom bird to have more frequency and speed, the bird on the top is smoother in the roll due to the cast(like any) , that is "if" they are rolling.
Scott
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MILO
105 posts
Jan 08, 2007
9:19 PM
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You are right Scott, but are disqualified....LOL You know these birds in and out. Very good points on the build as well.
c
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1046 posts
Jan 08, 2007
9:21 PM
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Milo, I would agree with Scott on how I would think each bird is in the air, the hen being more speedy, zippy in the roll whereas the cock more smooth, when he rolls. I see the hen as being one of those that on occasion ventures a bit from the kit, not often, but occasionally. The cock looks like a wing clapper, but a solid kit bird, likes to take charge of the kit but isn't very frequent. I don't think the cock is fully developed into the spin yet, or hasn't been flown much lately. He is full of too much pride, his expression exudes it. The hen on the other han appears she is probably hitting or was hitting full stride in terms of her rolling potential. Might be one of those that is last to land too.
How do I come to my conclusions? I had some of that family before remember...lol. My assessment of those in that family during the time I had them was hen's with the pinched face from the top and from the sides with as forward bulge to the eyes and a hypertension expression most always were high flyers, sometimes the kit would land and they still wanted to fly. I like her build though.
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MILO
106 posts
Jan 08, 2007
9:35 PM
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Right again Brian. Excellent observation and descriptors on the cockbird too. You are spot on. Not a clapper though. I put him away into the stockpen when he was rolling nicely... Smooth fast and 25 feet with moderate frequency. HUGE difference now, than what he looked like as a kitbird...LOL Here is the pic. Some of you may remember him...
c
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diamondrollers
29 posts
Jan 08, 2007
10:29 PM
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a milo ,
these look just like my birds
k
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Electric-man
116 posts
Jan 08, 2007
11:00 PM
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You guys got to be friggin kidden!Bet you $5 you guys called each other and set this whole thing up just to look like genieses! Bet your all kin to that Albert Frankenstien guy too aren't ya!
No, just kidding, that is amazing that you guys can read that just from looking at the birds expressions! I would like to see more of this if you all would! Might be a good learning tool for some of us newer guys. That is, if you weren't just pulling our legs! LOL
Val
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2007 12:59 AM
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luis
114 posts
Jan 08, 2007
11:05 PM
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Electic man,you'll be surprised what you learn after many years of raising pigeons if you do your homework!!Don't forget to take good notes.........
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MILO
107 posts
Jan 08, 2007
11:06 PM
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Ya, a little. This bird you have posted reminds me of this bird below. A little henny for my taste, but a good producer for sure. If I had to guess, they are related...LOL
c
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nicksiders
1189 posts
Jan 09, 2007
7:18 AM
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Diamondrollers posting looks like a Billings bird to me.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MILO
108 posts
Jan 09, 2007
9:58 PM
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Val! Nobody put anyone up to anything. I think it is very interesting how Brian and Scott pegged some things here. I don't think it should be shrugged off either. I feel too many times guys don't want to take guesses for fear of being wrong. It was gutsy for these guys to take a shot. Any others?
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Electric-man
117 posts
Jan 09, 2007
10:48 PM
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Why are some of you guys so defensive? I'm just having fun! I got all the respect in the world for these guys. And I think its super ballsy of them! When I asked them to do more of it, I was serious. I think it is a gift and hope to get there someday myself! I have raised animals all my life, and I believe they all have personalities and I'm pretty good at learning them.I don't have the same luck with people though, for some reason! I wished you would reread my post in the frame of mind that I was on my fourth night of night shifts and I'm just trying to have some fun! No disrespect at all intended! Can you not see that in the second half of my post?Some of you guys are like my wifes family, they fight and cuss each other constantly, but you dare disrespect one of them, and all of a sudden their klan! Sorry for trying to fit in!
I spent 6 yrs with my daughter showing heifers and steers. We had little money, so my end of the bargain was to break the breeder's calves in turn for my daughter gettting to show a calf or two each year! He was a doctor and sold show calves all over the country. It seemed like an endless ordeal! They would go out and pick their sale stock by looks, size, conframation, ect. and bring them in the lots for me. I looked at the eye, and their attitude! I could tell you what kind of job was ahead of me in 5 min. With the help of my daughter, we broke them all,she might have been better than me at reading their personalities! Long story short,all animals have personalities, and if you spend time with them you will pick up on it, I know that! So relax,I was just getting a little comfortable around you guys and tried to make a funny!I take my hat off to BMC, Scott, you Milo, and many others on this sight!Although, I think some of you are getting a little stiff, you could roll a little more and make things more comfortable for the newer guys! JMO
Val Reneau
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 1:40 AM
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MILO
109 posts
Jan 10, 2007
1:46 AM
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Man...I guess I gotta put a LOL in every sentence...LOL I wan't being defensive at all. LOL LOL ok...that's better...and a :) too.
c
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nicksiders
1200 posts
Jan 10, 2007
6:52 PM
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Yes, you have to put a disclaimer with any statement you make in roller sites like: "Just my opinion" or "LOL" or "that is what I have experienced". By doing that people will continue to like you and accept you as one of their own................oh yea, I forgot....LOL
This just my opinion and it is what I have experienced.
Weird ain't it?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Electric-man
120 posts
Jan 10, 2007
11:00 PM
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I agree, I am going to post the way I see fit! I have no intentions of being disrespectful, but I get tired of making sure that I throw a LOL in there just to not to offend anyone! I like to live on the lighter side of life,and enjoy laughing. I am here to learn and I have nothing but respect for you experienced flyers,but I don't believe in being fake to try make friends. Everybody that knows me knows I'm out to put a smile on everybodies face. I'm a big guy, bigger than most, and I hate appolagizing for just goofing off, so this is my last one,I hope; for the guys I offended, sorry, the rest of you,You can kiss my ass! LOL ( woops, there i go again)!
Val
Sorry I cant spell either( damn it, that is the last time)!
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 11:02 PM
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Velo99
844 posts
Jan 11, 2007
4:40 AM
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Val,
I like your style bro. For the most part this is a place where you can voice your opinion. Some will take the opposite stance, just to be the Devil`s advocate. A lively discussion with a little passion thrown in makes one dig a little deeper into the subject and open doors that might have been closed to a new guy. Just be yourself,no one need apologize for that.
jmho
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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motherlodelofts
1288 posts
Jan 11, 2007
6:37 AM
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Wow ! How did this thread head in this direction ? I didn't see any disrespect anywhere to anyone.
Val, these birds are just like dogs, horses or anything else ,as you know when you have been around them you can learn to put on a pretty good read on them.
With rollers , the hot birds have the look of the villiage idiot , when excited or cornered they show fear , they just have the look of being mentaly weak.
Then you have the opposite , strong confident , the look of mental strength , birds that are slamming the roof or fear rolling due to being possesed by the roll won't show you this.
If you study birds that are coming into the roll you can also see the expression will change many time's , it can and will also change as the bird progresses, it can show fear when first coming in to a look of confidence once the bird starts getting a handle on it.
If people would honestly study their birds whether it be the best or the bottom of the barrel culls they would learn far far more , but if you are breeding for "anything" other than performance, don't bother , you won't like what you see when you do learn to see it.
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2007 6:41 AM
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bman
167 posts
Jan 11, 2007
6:53 AM
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Scott,
To be honest I thought it was all mumbo jumbo,charater.
But your post is the first one that made sense.Study birds at both ends of the spectrum,good and bad.I can see with time I might just get an idea what to look for.
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Ron
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MILO
110 posts
Jan 11, 2007
10:47 AM
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Scott.
Thanks for clarifying. I would like to add to what you have said. Don't mistake this for something else guys. I used the term "clue" in my post because it is only a sign of probable traits to follow. By no means am I implying that you should stock a bird simply because of it's expression or character, and not by it's aerial performance. That is a bad policy, as you wouldn't know how to breed them either. That IS NOT my goal here. I am just saying that there are physical and "expressive" keys that can help us pinpoint certain birds and guide us as how to mate them up. I would say that in most of the birds that can tear up the sky....they usually share many of the traits of their parents. But certain birds "tear up the sky" in different ways, and have many, many different stages of development, no matter how tight of a family you are working with. I like the desciptors Scott has used here. Also, knowing your families expressive clues and what they mean will certainly help you pair your birds better. Nothing is set in stone, but anything to point your program in the right direction helps a lot.
c
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