STARFIRE
291 posts
Jan 09, 2007
8:28 AM
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-Lets hear the your comments on the expression of this bird.
STARFIRE
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ROLLERMAN
82 posts
Jan 09, 2007
9:06 AM
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LETS EAT
AL
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Ballrollers
595 posts
Jan 09, 2007
9:25 AM
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It's much more difficult to read expression in a roller with bull eyes, and especially if they are facing you head on.
YITS,
Cliff
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luis
115 posts
Jan 09, 2007
10:12 AM
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Hey Al that's pretty dam funny !!!
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W@yne
178 posts
Jan 09, 2007
10:23 AM
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Starfire take some pictures of the birds side on so these guys can focus on the eyes of the bird. Expression is a phase over here the show guys talk a lot about. Personally i like to see the bird look keen and alert and fit but no one can guarantee that a bird will roll just by its eye they have been many proven wrong.Some people on this forum think they can but i beg to differ,
regards
W@yne uk
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motherlodelofts
1282 posts
Jan 09, 2007
10:39 AM
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Wayne , you bring up a very valid point, the best that you can do is give an estimate , a bird with a solid expression can either be a stiff , non roller , or a very stable bird , but I have had exceptions (rolldown with strong expression) that were impossible to peg.
Hot unstable birds are much easier to peg , they just have that "blank" look , or it might be a scared look, pupil placement also plays in most of the time, thier body language also plays in.
The bottom line is that it is nothing more than educated guesses and not set in stone.
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2007 3:49 PM
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spinner jim
29 posts
Jan 09, 2007
11:39 AM
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There you are Wayne scottys put you right what do you english know ??? lol
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W@yne
179 posts
Jan 09, 2007
11:50 AM
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Glad your honest Scotty just some people in here go on about stocking birds just by the look of the birds eye and breeding from these birds. I just think that this is the wrong way to go and bad information for new flyer's or any flyer's to be honest. True after having your strain over the years you will know what type of bird you will be looking for by looking at it ie type size look gut feeling. Like i said before the word expression is only ever used in the show ring me hearing it a lot because i used to take old Bill Hughes around the show circuit at 76 years old he could no longer drive himself about but he was the master over here in his younger days in show and judging rollers. He used to go on about expression all the time Lol. Point of this story is to pick yer
stock from the sky
not from the eye.
and you wont go far wrong
my opinion only guys and i dont mean to offend any 1 by saying this.
regards
W@yne uk
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motherlodelofts
1283 posts
Jan 09, 2007
12:11 PM
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Wayne, if you are stocking birds by expression alone you are on a road to no where ,expression is nothing more than a small tool of many tools.
Over all what that bird is capable of in the air and how it handled it is always the starting point and deciding factor , unstable birds always show themelfs regardless as do stiffs.
Playing around like this can make you look silly in a heartbeat , expression will not show you the qaulity of the bird either , all it can do is (help) tell you whether it's a frigging idiot with no heart (too hot) or whether it has the confidence to handle it , then you have everything inbetween.
The same holds true with dogs , horses or any livestock.
If all else is equel in the air I like birds with a strong expression and one consideration is using it with one not so strong.
Birds with weak expressions most always were problem birds from the get go , and they just have that "duh I'm a dummy" look to them , but due you cull or stock due to ? hell no , you fly them hard and see what is or actualy isn't.
Scott
PS Jim, are not reading what I'm writing ? LOL
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2007 12:18 PM
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W@yne
182 posts
Jan 09, 2007
12:25 PM
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Good post scotty i totally agree with you there and by no means was i pointing a finger at you Lol you know me better than that. I just wanted to put this point over on the eye thing thats all. Just hope someone takes it in instead of breeding from birds that has the look. Like you said these guys are on a road nowhere. PS Jim stop trying to wind me up lol
regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2007 12:34 PM
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bman
162 posts
Jan 09, 2007
12:26 PM
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This might sound like a dumb question but how many guys see the "expression" good or bad after the bird has prove itself in the air either good or bad.Might not knowing the birds track record influence what yuor seeing?
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Ron
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Opinionated Blowhard
88 posts
Jan 09, 2007
3:43 PM
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This pigeon has no expression. You cant see anything in its eyes. It could be stuffed for all I know. Kevin
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Santandercol
632 posts
Jan 09, 2007
5:45 PM
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She looks like she wantsta get laid.
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Kelly
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J_Star
752 posts
Jan 09, 2007
6:47 PM
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This is only my opinion...I think you guys are making too much science out of this thing. Enjoy them for what they are and strive to produce better in the long run.
Jay
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centralvalleylofts
56 posts
Jan 09, 2007
7:00 PM
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it looks like a figurine and roller dove mix.
not a good shot from this side.personally it looks like
a big chested toy bird.than a real roller warrior.
my opnion.
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2007 7:02 PM
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JMUrbon
194 posts
Jan 09, 2007
9:03 PM
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The photo more than likely does no justice for the bird due to the angle and distance. Like Wayne and Scott stated to stock a bird by looks alone is not a good practice. I hear far too often and even on this forum of somebody seeing a photo and stating its too hot or I want it etc.etc. I believe that if you are building a family and you see a nice bird elsewere then you need to learn to curb the urge to take it home or get rid of what you got and start with that bird. You will have a long road ahead of you if you try to bring birds that you like from everywhere. Stick to what you have if you like them or let them go and start over and you will save yourself alot of time and money. JMO
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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STARFIRE
292 posts
Jan 10, 2007
10:14 AM
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Hey Guys:
I just wanted to say that you can't judge a book by its cover.I knew what you guys would say about this bird as soon as you looked at the color.This Bird is a champion,in every sense of the word.This bird is very high velocity spinner that balls up and looks like a baseball.It spins between 30-40 ft,and snaps out of the spin faceing the kit every time.It spins about once a minute.It is very consistent in its performance and does not vary it.This is one of the best spinners I have ever seen and ever hope to see.If you had a blue check or blue bar as good as this one you would think you had something.It has also flown 5 hrs on one occasion.So that shows the blue check -barred boys that there are good birds of color.I have lots of them.
STARFIRE
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J_Star
756 posts
Jan 10, 2007
10:51 AM
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Stan,
With all due respect, a bird that can do it once a minute and the work rate you mentioned cannot sustain to fly for 5 hours on any occasion. Correct me if I am wrong!!
Jay
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1050 posts
Jan 10, 2007
11:50 AM
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Jay, In my experience, I've had many birds, mainly hens, that could and would work really hard, more than once a minute for a good 15-20 minutes minimum. About the time they start running out of gas the kit lifts and they hover up there for a long time. Some of the hottest ones are often the ones that hang solo up there until they are just plain pooped out.
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motherlodelofts
1284 posts
Jan 10, 2007
12:01 PM
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Stan color doesn't have anything to do with anything, who ever said that a bird has to be a bluebar, blue check or any self for that matter to be a good bird ?
Scott
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STARFIRE
294 posts
Jan 10, 2007
12:03 PM
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-Hi JStar:
You are corrected.When a bird like this flys all that time it sure slows its spin rate down a lot.It's impossible to keep a rate like that up for more then an hour or so.I have had some of my kits fly more than 4 hrs lots of times.
and thats on 1 tbsp.of wheat per bird.I figure if a bird is to have a high velocity spin ,it has to have the energy to sustain it -thus long flying ability.
STARFIRE
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nicksiders
1198 posts
Jan 10, 2007
12:36 PM
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I still say it is hot and bumps......
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2007 7:24 PM
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STARFIRE
295 posts
Jan 10, 2007
1:40 PM
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-Hey Scott;
You do.You slam every bird that is posted unless its a blue
check or bar of the true birmingham roller persuasion.You insinuate that they are the only good birds ,that everything else is a mongrel or crossed with something.I guess the guys that own these birds have to have some sort of bull or they wouldn't be able to sell them.And don't tell me its not about money.Maybe not to you but a lot of other guys down there.My birds started with all the colors you have but I want more than that in my loft.It's not very interesting to me to mate my birds and know that all the young will be blue or red check -bars or selfs.I like to be surprised.I could breed my Red and Blue check and bars this year and not breed anything else if i wanted to
,and they would be excellent spinners,but I would sooner breed other colors that are just as good.In the spring I got 25 blue checks from someone I know.They were supposed to be his best birds,but no one wanted them.I took them because I knew a guy that had bad luck with his birds and needed some to build his stock.No one around my area will buy or even take for free those hard colored birds .They all go for meat.And It doesn't matter how good they are.Everybody in the Toronto club ,almost,has Barrett birds and they dont come in those hard colors.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 1:41 PM
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motherlodelofts
1285 posts
Jan 10, 2007
3:49 PM
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Stan, you are clueless !
And no the Birmingham Roller does "NOT" only come in self colors , give me one example where I have said it did , you can't because I know better , and I would be an idiot to even suggest it.
But nor does it come in the mongrel colors or developed crests.
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 3:56 PM
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STARFIRE
296 posts
Jan 10, 2007
4:11 PM
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-Hi Scott:
What would you call mongrel colors?And don't you think if you started with a bird with a curl on the back of the head ,and bred them for 27years that you could devolop that curl into a reasonable crest?
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 4:16 PM
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fhtfire
776 posts
Jan 10, 2007
4:16 PM
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I do not know if I am wrong or right...but expression is not just the eye of the bird....to me expression is the overall expression of the bird...the way it acts, stands, flys, rolls and the eye....the birds with expression have it all...you can see the expression of a bull eye bird without seeing the eye, if you look at the birds over all expression. If you pick a bird just by expression..then you will be fighting a losing battle in the stock loft...if you fly out the bird and it rolls great and does everything right to make you think it is a stock bird...the expression is something that usually comes with the package...it is not about the way the bird looks..meaning big or small ect..it is about how the bird looks..you have to look deeper.....smoke some whacky tobacy and then you can really see the expression..LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
1286 posts
Jan 10, 2007
4:25 PM
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Stan your crossing shows with or without the crests, you are fooling few.
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 4:29 PM
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STARFIRE
297 posts
Jan 10, 2007
5:02 PM
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-Hey Scott:
Don't ever give up.Don't ever change your mind about anything.You keep saying the same thing and maybe someone will believe you.You still don't know what your talking about.Are you related to George Bush?LOL
STARFIRE
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JMHD
73 posts
Jan 10, 2007
5:05 PM
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Hey Stan what Pensom Line are your birds out of just curiouse? John M.
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motherlodelofts
1287 posts
Jan 10, 2007
5:29 PM
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I'm "proud" to call George Bush my president Stan,and your point is ?
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 5:51 PM
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knaylor
430 posts
Jan 10, 2007
6:58 PM
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Real smart move Stan, bash our President Mr. Bush!!! See how far that will get you here!! I think you just made a major mistake!!!
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 6:59 PM
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STARFIRE
298 posts
Jan 10, 2007
7:31 PM
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Hey Guys:
Lighten up.I was trying to be funny.I'm not bashing your president.
STARFIRE
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STARFIRE
299 posts
Jan 10, 2007
7:35 PM
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-Hey John:
My birds came from Sallinger Pensom line,from Hamilton Ontario. and the red checks come from a guy who got them directly from Pensom himself.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 7:36 PM
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nicksiders
1202 posts
Jan 10, 2007
8:02 PM
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Can I bash him? I am an American; a vetaran(wounded three times); a patriot. I have a kid who is currently serving and did a tour in Iraq.
So, do I qualify?
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Snicker Rollers
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fhtfire
777 posts
Jan 10, 2007
9:01 PM
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You bet you can..Nick...that is why were are American..freedom of speech..it is just not the best when someone from another country does....anyway..I think stan was trying to be funny..but not funny when our boys are at war....My Engineer at the F.D. is on his way there as we speak
rock and ROLL
paul
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Santandercol
641 posts
Jan 10, 2007
9:37 PM
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Hope your buddy comes back alright Paul.Jeez guys,we better stay away from THAT subject here,let me tell ya said something on another site one time and crap hit the proverbial fan had ta get outta there.Whether you say you're proud of your boys over fighting somewhere,or you say you don't like some people in power,you're gonna offend somebody.This is a bird site.
Only my KFA opinion.And I reserve the right to change it but don't think I will till close to 2050.
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Kelly (KFA=Know F*** All)
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2007 7:26 PM
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STARFIRE
300 posts
Jan 10, 2007
9:48 PM
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-Hey Guys:
I was trying to make a joke.Don't get all riled up .I appreciate what your guys are doing over in the war zone.
They are doing a helluva job over there to keep the free world free.I meant no disrespect,and I'm sorry.
STARFIRE
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J_Star
758 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:35 AM
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I don't think Stan said anything negative about our boys in the service. The president is a public figure and allot of people in the States don't care for the Cowboy, doing it alone and stay the course mentality including myself. Stan...no need to oppologize for making a funny. Thanks
I would like to remind everybody that our president is considered a World Leader not just an American Leader and that term is used all the times. If he is a world leader then anybody from this earth can either be proud of him or not so proud. They can appraise him or criticize him. At least…that is how I see it.
Jay
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2007 5:14 AM
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rust never sleeps
101 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:45 AM
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I'm with Scott on this one Yours are shows with or without crests.
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nicksiders
1203 posts
Jan 11, 2007
10:30 AM
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Stan, don't worry about it. We deserve the critisism we get over this MF. How can 59 million people be so dumb,huh?....he he LOL. Just my opinion which I have arrived due to my experience. Have a disclaimed enough?
It was funny, Stan. No need to apologise
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Santandercol
642 posts
Jan 11, 2007
10:43 AM
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Can't help it,,,,Good to hear ya Nick.
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Kelly
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motherlodelofts
1289 posts
Jan 11, 2007
2:13 PM
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Nick, you've "earned" that right and so have I along with others here , the others I'll fight tooth and nail ,nuff said , lets stick with pigeons.
Scott
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MILO
111 posts
Jan 11, 2007
6:35 PM
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Heres a serious question for you Stan. Do you honestly think anyone can make an assesment on expression from that photo? C'mon. Is that an old photo? If the bird is a champion like you say it is, it deserves a nice photo. If the bird is still alive, take it to a well lit area and take a good close photo of it. I think a lot of guys just walked away from your post because it is just poor quality photo, and an assessment just simply can't be made. And no Stan, it's not because of the birds bull eye or it's color. That wouldn't be fair now would it? LOL
Waiting for a pic. Have a nice day.
c
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2007 6:36 PM
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kopetsa
775 posts
Jun 01, 2008
5:57 PM
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sad.. nice bird though!
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Andrew
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