ArlenS
1 post
Jan 09, 2007
9:53 AM
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I was hoping to use a broody pair of ringneck doves (they'll sit on ping pong balls) to incubate a winter roller egg from my breeders that they never sat on. The doves have been sitting on it for several days. Then I realized, will they, or would a "broody" hen pigeon used under these circumstances, be able to produce the "milk" to feed them in the first few days before they start getting regurgitated seed. Does that mean that this could work with the doves? I guess I'm not sure what stimulates milk production and when it comes in. Is the issue of using fosters that laid within a few days of each other important so that they will continuue to set on eggs for the full duration or necessary to produce milk? Does the act of setting on eggs for X number of days stimulate milk production? Please advise me.
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smokey
106 posts
Jan 09, 2007
4:18 PM
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im not sure but i think that when the chick starts piping through the egg is a large part of milk production. might be wrong smokey
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nicksiders
1194 posts
Jan 09, 2007
5:00 PM
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The activity of the squab in the egg initiates the production of milk. The adults though will abandon the eggs after a certian number of days past the gestation period and it will vary from adult to adult a few days.
The dove which is a pigeon should work to foster the eggs. I have never heard of it done, but that does not mean it hasn't been done and it also does not mean it will not work.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Santandercol
630 posts
Jan 09, 2007
5:36 PM
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Nick,
That 1st sentence has gotta be worth at least 20 bucks!!
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Kelly
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J_Star
753 posts
Jan 09, 2007
6:57 PM
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Are you guys really sure of you answers to be correct? This is a scientific question and I think it is best answered by a vetrenarian.
What I am gathering from your answers is that the sight of the chipping eggs make the cock or the hen hormones and chemistry change to produce milk!!
Jay
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2007 6:58 PM
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Santandercol
633 posts
Jan 09, 2007
7:45 PM
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Whether it's the gestation period or the squab movement in the egg that triggers the reaction to produce the milk,it's pretty obvious that the natural sequence of mating and setting on the eggs is what brings it on.I'm sure NOT a vet,but I think if you put eggs under a foster pair after those eggs have already been sat for let's say 12 days,and 6 days later they hatch,it's doubtful if the fosters would have the milk in their crop to feed the young.Jay,we're not trying to sound like experts here.Just trying to help the guy out with advice from some experience.Cheers Mate.
Kelly
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
962 posts
Jan 10, 2007
4:22 AM
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2 cocks mated together can produce pigeon milk at anytime.I have heard that 2 hens mated together can do the same but have never used 2 hens.David
P.S. I have used Doves to raise some rollers.They can raise one without any problems but 2 is too much for them.All I have are Ringneck Doves.The larger White doves could handle 2.
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 4:30 AM
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bman
165 posts
Jan 10, 2007
6:15 AM
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I think they maybe able to produce milk at anytime.
I have had fosters hatch eggs after only a week with no problems.
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Ron
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ArlenS
3 posts
Jan 11, 2007
12:26 PM
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Thanks for all your helpful responses! Prior to receiving your responses, I also contacted Dr. Jay Miller, Professor Emeritus of Genetics and Zoology at Iowa State University. Out of interest, I will share it with you his thoughts. His website is here: http://www.ringneckdove.com/. Go to his home page and look for an article titled fostering dove eggs. He talks about using ringnecks to foster a single pigeon egg. However, when we talked, he thought that milk production comes in after setting on eggs for a number of days during the incubation, and that it would dry up after a number of days. He said that most birds would probably not continue to set eggs after milk production had dried up. Because I had let the birds set on a ping pong ball for a couple weeks immediately prior to placing the newly laid abandoned pigeon egg under them, and then let them set on the pigeon egg for several days, the doves' milk had probably already come in and dried up (because the doves' incubation period is 14 days versus pigeons' 18 days). Thus, the doves would probably not have milk to feed the pigeon when it hatched, even if they would continue to set on it long enough to hatch after their milk dried up which would be questionable (14 days on ping pong ball plus 14 days on the egg). When I asked him how you could foster a pigeon egg with doves because of the different incubation periods, he said that I would have had to incubate the pigeon egg for at least a couple of days first, under the original parents, a foster pair of pigeons, or in an incubator. These options were not immediately available for me under these circumstances as I was trying to save an abandoned egg that had not yet been set on, and in any case wasn't sufficiently knowledgeable. However, there must be more to this as Bluesman and Bman have experienced successful exceptions to this setting time period requirement to stimulate milk production. Thanks again. Its great to have you much more experienced guys as resources for difficult questions.
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nicksiders
1205 posts
Jan 11, 2007
12:55 PM
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ArlenS,
Some of the best wildlife paintings I have ever seen was by an artist name Carl Arlen. You wouldn't happen to be him?
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Snicker Rollers
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ArlenS
4 posts
Jan 11, 2007
1:54 PM
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No, although I certainly appreciate wildlife art. My name is Arlen Siert, from Wheat Ridge Colorado, about 8 miles west of Denver. I am 47 and have had various types of pigeons on and off since I was 12, but got into Birmingham Rollers exclusively fairly recently, and still have much to learn. I have been reading all your old posts which have been very helpful plus a couple of books. I joined the Colorado Roller Pigeon Club and just joined the NBRC. I am in the earlier stages of breeding and training to fill up a couple of kit boxes.
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nicksiders
1207 posts
Jan 11, 2007
4:44 PM
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Arlen,
You will appreciate this site. Some great people here. Welcome aboard.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Velo99
848 posts
Jan 11, 2007
5:15 PM
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Welcome Arlen,
Kenny/ Amarilo Tx.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Jimbo113
16 posts
Jan 11, 2007
9:54 PM
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Welcome Arlen
I have done a fair amount of fostering pigeons through the years. I pull the first egg and replace it with a wooden nest egg. Put the real egg into a clean chicken egg crate like from the grocery store. Mark a number on it lightly with pencil. Then record the date laid and pair number into my loft records. If I don't have a foster pair lay their first egg by the day the primary pair lays their second egg then I forget fostering that pair and give the egg back to the original pair. If I do have a foster pair lay in that time range then I give them both primary eggs the same day they lay their second egg. This system works for me and it will work for anyone.
Not directly relating to your question but it kinda is. haha. There are other details I won;t continue to type unless someone is actually interested.
YITS,
Jim
Ovalo, Texas
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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ArlenS
6 posts
Jan 12, 2007
11:27 AM
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Thanks for the welcome guys, and for the fostering information Jim. That was a great idea to keep it simple. I am interested in learning more about fostering as I have not previously utilized it.
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longarm
35 posts
Jan 13, 2007
5:51 PM
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hey jim
Here is your interested party lol. I am haveing to restart my program from a very few pairs and hope to utilise fosters as much as possible. I sell quit a few commens to dog trainers as well as useing them my self. last week I split 9 pairs from my commen loft and vaced them, dusted them and put them under observation. now with those percautions is this still a bad idea??? I have never used fosters before and would like to hear diffrent ideas on methods and any commen problems that I may incounter. thanks c. j.
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