nicksiders
1201 posts
Jan 10, 2007
7:46 PM
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I went back and re-read a post on mine and didn't like it. I found it ofensive in some parts and changed it a little so not to be such a large ass.
You can’t breed for both show and performance and be successful at both. Color has nothing to do with performance. Repeat after me: Color has nothing to do with performance. One more time: Color has nothing to do with performance. DON'T CHASE COLOR TO ACHIEVE PERFORMANCE!
The breeders of “suicide rollers” should be fined or jailed. They are no different than cock fighters who place metal blades where the spurs are or dog fighters. Same cruel mentality.
Rolldowns are a major defect and should never go into the breeding loft. It should be taboo to breed from them and staunchly discouraged.
To introduce a different breed to the Birmingham Roller to achieve a certain color, spread, or shape should always be strongly discouraged. PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE BREED.
There is no eye sign in rollers and there probably ain’t one in racing birds either. Just a bunch of hokkis-pokkis bull shit. It changes with each winner. Eye color has nothing to do with nothing. Eyes are just a window to health and intelligence
Never have anything but your best in the breeding loft. Only those birds of great character should qualify. I wish I had the intelligence to describe what character is that can be understood, but I can’t. It is a “look” the bird has that tells you he is the best. Maybe one of these days someone will be able to communicate what this “look” is all about. But not me at this time and place.
Good feed, what, and how much you feed should be high on your priority list to get a command of. You control your birds through feed.
Always have grit available for your breeders. Throw a hand full of grit now and then to your kit birds.
Fresh drinking water all of the time and spike it with vitamins and minerals.
MAKE SURE YOUR LOFT AND FEED ARE KEPT DRY. This is extremely important. Probably the most important thing you do to guard the health of your birds.
Keep your loft simple, clean, uncluttered, and rodent free.
Don’t medicate healthy birds.
Only pass on good sound birds. No culls! Cull your culls. A cull is any bird you WOULDN’T have. Pass on the birds you CAN’T have. You can’t keep ’em all.
If you don’t have the guts to properly and responsibly cull your unwanted birds then you need to rethink if this is the hobby you want to be in. The worse thing you could do with birds is to release them into the wild far enough away in hopes they will not return. It is no different than putting an unwanted dog or cat out in the country, dumping them. DO THE RESPONSIBLE THING!
Grizzles are no hotter than any other hot bird. I will puke the next time I hear the phrase a “double dose of grizzle” to increase frequency. Don’t you get it!?
The Birmingham Roller is a performance breed. Why would you want to breed it for any other purpose? If you what to breed for other things find another breed that matches your desires.
You can’t pick performance off the perch. It is said Bill Pensom could do it; you are not Bill Pensom.
Once you have studied, listened, observed, and have a solid understanding of what you want from this hobby develop a plan and stick with that plan. It doesn’t mean you don’t make subtle little adjustments and modifications to that plan. Just stick with your plan. Don’t keep changing that plan because someone else has a different plan.
Keep your gene pool manageable. The wider it gets the harder it is to manage it. “Hybrid vigor” gives you a one year flash and then you have to start all over again the next year by introducing another strain to your gene pool. Your gene pool gets wider and wider and more and more out of control. You can get all of the vigor you want by good sound selective breeding within your own family.
Even if you don’t compete, fly like you are. Set them up on a schedule for an imaginary competition day and prep them for competition…….its fun.
If you are not having fun in this hobby, why are you in it?
I have modified some of the statements I made in this post because after re-reading them I found that some where offensive to even me. To my friends who may have been offended and are currently still holding a grudge opinion of me I apologise..........so get over it!
These are just my opinions and I am the asshole......oops, I think I said that wrong....it just don't look right.
Well, I got a right to change my mind.
Nick
Last Edited on Jan 10, 2007 7:32 PM
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2007 7:52 PM
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Jimbo113
13 posts
Jan 10, 2007
9:12 PM
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Howdy Nick,
Guess I should have read that post before you tamed it down a bit. haha
Even though I agree with the majority of what you said, it still reads a bit a hole ish to me. lol
Course you called it on yourself already anyway.
It kinda makes me drag my feet a bit when I read the "Thou shall and shall not" do certain things. I sure as heck don't hold it against you though. haha
All the best to you and yours Nick.
Truly so,
Jim
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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AIREDALE
56 posts
Jan 11, 2007
2:27 AM
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Nick,
I think your opinions are on target,and have been formed by lots of thought and insight.I am glad to see you have decided to continue posting.Most of all ENJOY your birds and the hobby.
This just my opinion and it is what I have experienced.
Weird ain't it? John
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2007 2:30 AM
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rollerpigeon1963
131 posts
Jan 11, 2007
9:15 AM
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Nick,
Since you brought this up again I will reply to it. I will use your post and my thoughts.
"I went back and re-read a post on mine and didn't like it. I found it ofensive in some parts and changed it a little so not to be such a large ass."
Maybe a small one!
"You can’t breed for both show and performance and be successful at both. Color has nothing to do with performance. Repeat after me: Color has nothing to do with performance. One more time: Color has nothing to do with performance. DON'T CHASE COLOR TO ACHIEVE PERFORMANCE!"
Neither does the name of a true Birmingham Rollers where one will bred for paper. I can honestly say I have been burned by true birmingham rollers than true colors.
"The breeders of “suicide rollers” should be fined or jailed. They are no different than cock fighters who place metal blades where the spurs are or dog fighters. Same cruel mentality."
I wont go there.....
"Rolldowns are a major defect and should never go into the breeding loft. It should be taboo to breed from them and staunchly discouraged."
I will agree with you here.
"To introduce a different breed to the Birmingham Roller to achieve a certain color, spread, or shape should always be strongly discouraged. PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE BREED."
Yes but who pays the feed bill? So if someone has done this and there birds do performs in a manner that allows them to score on any given day. We should say "Well that was nice but they are not true Birminghams you get a big DQ" What does that say about us?
"There is no eye sign in rollers and there probably ain’t one in racing birds either. Just a bunch of hokkis-pokkis bull shit. It changes with each winner. Eye color has nothing to do with nothing. Eyes are just a window to health and intelligence"
That is one mans opinion. I know a lot of top roller guys who wont breed a certain color eye to another. Or bred from a certain color. It might be a bunch of BS but thats what makes the world go around.
"Never have anything but your best in the breeding loft. Only those birds of great character should qualify. I wish I had the intelligence to describe what character is that can be understood, but I can’t. It is a “look” the bird has that tells you he is the best. Maybe one of these days someone will be able to communicate what this “look” is all about. But not me at this time and place."
Yes that is true but I rather select my birds from the air. They may have the look on the ground but the air is where its at. I received another family of birds last year and theres a big difference between the two families. But both of my families came from some top flyers. In the 20 and in the 11 bird competition. So if they don't have that look of the other family I should go ahead and save myself the trouble and cull them? Again not every bird will show great character. I can't believe you believe in this and didn't believe in eye sign. LOL LOL.
"Good feed, what, and how much you feed should be high on your priority list to get a command of. You control your birds through feed."
True.....
"Always have grit available for your breeders. Throw a hand full of grit now and then to your kit birds."
I like using grit and believe in it....
"Fresh drinking water all of the time and spike it with vitamins and minerals."
Another good idea.....
"MAKE SURE YOUR LOFT AND FEED ARE KEPT DRY. This is extremely important. Probably the most important thing you do to guard the health of your birds."
Exactly!!!!!.......
Keep your loft simple, clean, uncluttered, and rodent free.
Another good idea......
Don’t medicate healthy birds.
"Only pass on good sound birds. No culls! Cull your culls. A cull is any bird you WOULDN’T have. Pass on the birds you CAN’T have. You can’t keep ’em all.
If you don’t have the guts to properly and responsibly cull your unwanted birds then you need to rethink if this is the hobby you want to be in. The worse thing you could do with birds is to release them into the wild far enough away in hopes they will not return. It is no different than putting an unwanted dog or cat out in the country, dumping them. DO THE RESPONSIBLE THING!"
Nick, if we could raise only 20 birds and they are good enough to go into the A team. That would be the perfect thing. But we have a "A" team and a "B" team. A kit of hold overs and maybe 2 or 3 young bird kits. So what do we do with those 3 or 4 kits that aren't in the "A" team cull them? you siad you cant pass them on to the new guys because they would be culls. And we only pass on good sound birds. Nick if the humain society lived next door to your house they would have a field day with you. Its probably best if we dont post our thoughs of culling on a open forum. In the interest of the hobby.
"Grizzles are no hotter than any other hot bird. I will puke the next time I hear the phrase a “double dose of grizzle” to increase frequency. Don’t you get it!?"
I for one have another thought about this but does it really matter what I say right now? But I know that a certain family of a certain color was always called the hotter side. And what about those hot Rec Reds. LOL LOL
"The Birmingham Roller is a performance breed. Why would you want to breed it for any other purpose? If you what to breed for other things find another breed that matches your desires."
Why is the dog breeders doing this? Because they can!!! nothing you or I say will change there minds. It's a fact of life.
"You can’t pick performance off the perch. It is said Bill Pensom could do it; you are not Bill Pensom."
You can't pick character either for performance off the perch for the breeding loft.
"Once you have studied, listened, observed, and have a solid understanding of what you want from this hobby develop a plan and stick with that plan. It doesn’t mean you don’t make subtle little adjustments and modifications to that plan. Just stick with your plan. Don’t keep changing that plan because someone else has a different plan."
Short and simple do your own thing. And stick to it....
"Keep your gene pool manageable. The wider it gets the harder it is to manage it. “Hybrid vigor” gives you a one year flash and then you have to start all over again the next year by introducing another strain to your gene pool. Your gene pool gets wider and wider and more and more out of control. You can get all of the vigor you want by good sound selective breeding within your own family."
Sounds good to me.....
"Even if you don’t compete, fly like you are. Set them up on a schedule for an imaginary competition day and prep them for competition…….its fun."
Can be for some and others might make it a little stressful on themselves.
"If you are not having fun in this hobby, why are you in it?"
I get pleasure of pissing off old men LOL LOL.
"I have modified some of the statements I made in this post because after re-reading them I found that some where offensive to even me. To my friends who may have been offended and are currently still holding a grudge opinion of me I apologise..........so get over it!"
Over what?????......
"These are just my opinions and I am the asshole......oops, I think I said that wrong....it just don't look right."
Arent we all.....
"Well, I got a right to change my mind."
Nick I had to reply to this just because I havent been posting in a while. But there is so many factors why each and everyone is in this hobby. And I for one would take any birds from certain families of well known certain fliers. The gene pool is there and its up to me to find the best of it. best of luck...
Brian Middaugh
http://rollerpigeon1963.tripod.com
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Huey
34 posts
Jan 11, 2007
10:27 AM
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If I get reincarnated as a chicken and my choices are broiler or game cock. Let me be a game cock. I don’t fight until two years old. If I survive the fights I get my Dr bills paid for life and get bred to the finest hens and pullets for years to come. If I am a broiler I’m going to some fried chicken place at six to eight weeks of age.
No difference to me in fighting cocks and culling pigeons except the cocks love to fight. I don’t think pigeons enjoy being culled.
Let them fight their cocks. Let me cull my pigeons.
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nicksiders
1204 posts
Jan 11, 2007
10:34 AM
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OKAY........cock fighting is good. Anybody want to try for the dog fighting?
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Snicker Rollers
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sippi
11 posts
Jan 11, 2007
5:02 PM
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Nick I think that is a good common sense post and good advice for anyone to take. What scares me is I agree with every statement except one.
LOL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
1290 posts
Jan 11, 2007
5:20 PM
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Dog pit fighter !!
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2007 5:21 PM
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Velo99
849 posts
Jan 11, 2007
5:24 PM
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Yeah Scott,
He looks like a killer. I`m shaking.lmao
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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smk
23 posts
Jan 11, 2007
5:32 PM
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Letting gamecocks fight is no different than letting rollers roll its what they are supposed to do and enjoy doing
smk
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nicksiders
1208 posts
Jan 11, 2007
6:24 PM
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The thing I have with cock fighters is that they strap metal blades on thier legs instead of just using the natural spurs. They fight because they are placed in an arena where there is no escape so they bloody each other severly. Normally one would leave the area when things get a little tough in the yard.
There is a reason that most states have outlawed this "sport".
What about dog fighting? Ain't that what they love to do?
A Birmingham Roller performing and a gamecock fighting are not the same thing. Get the augmentation off of the gamecocks and allow the looser to run off and I may be willing to accept it.
Now, tell me why nobody has came to the defense of dog fighting? Why is it so much different?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MILO
112 posts
Jan 11, 2007
6:37 PM
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Because it's a mammal? LOL
c
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rollerpigeon1963
132 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:08 PM
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Nick,
LOL LOL I can tell you have a sheltered life when it comes to this subject. LOL LOL The gamecock is not placed in a pit/arena and forced to show. They are bred for it and love to do it.
You can take two gamecocks and starve them almost to death and put food in the middle of the two and they will not eat until the other is either removed or runs off. Then they will eat. Where as a dog will eat!!!!
Nick the runner is allowed to run and leave. All this shows it that its a cull. A roll down in pigeon terms. You cant force a gamecock to show if it dosen't want to. Like any other animal if it don't want to do it there is nothing you can do to it to make it show. They are usually picked up by the handler pretty quick because they are probably embarrassed about them running.
And in certain parts of the USA it is legal to show chickens {pitfowl}. Where it is illegal in any state to show dogs.
Reason why no one is speaking up for the dogs is because most of the people that have chickens have other feathered friends. I can probably name 40 guys that have pigeons and gamefowl.
Thanks and best of luck Brian Middaugh
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dave
282 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:09 PM
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Be it dog, chicken, or rollers. These animals were cultivated for a certain trait that they are good at. Game dogs and game chickens were cultivated for their gameness (not quiting). Each animal was picked for that desirable trait like how our rollers are picked for their ability to spin in the air. In a way, our rollers are also placed into a ring (the sky to perform)just like dogs and game chickens.
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BR Rollers
68 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:18 PM
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Nick from one ass to another..lol
You speak your oppinion of the do's and don'ts of the Birmingham Roller hobby and thats okay because thats what your into.
BUT it's very obvious you have no idea or clue at all about the Gamefowl world.
It wouldn't probably have even been included in your post if you only knew how many Roller guys have Gamecocks.
Bye the way how do you dispatch your culls and do you eat them as well?
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2007 7:23 PM
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birdman
293 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:21 PM
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Nick,
I don't know the answer. But rollers, cock fighting, and pit bull fighting were all popular in the Black Country. Maybe one's views on these subjects are shaped by their culture. Suppose you were dirt poor or from a third world country and had the opportunity to feed your family by either fighting your dog or eating it, which would you choose?
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nicksiders
1209 posts
Jan 11, 2007
7:39 PM
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I don't have a clue when it comes to game fowl, but it still scares me somewhat. May be due to the adverse publicity it gets on the TV....I don't know. Dog fighting even scares me more and like gamecock fighting I have no clue.
I am still not convenced about the crualty the animals endure and I am not ready to participate in it.
Clueless or not....it still seems universaly wrong to me.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2007 7:39 PM
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mkg_07
1 post
Jan 11, 2007
8:01 PM
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Most people don't even know that GAME COCKS were keep at the White House.The sad thing is that most people dont know that AMERICAN PRESIDENTS were Cock Figthers.
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Mongrel Lofts
257 posts
Jan 11, 2007
11:14 PM
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Game cocks are some of the finest bred animals in the world in my opinion;; I raised and fought them most of my life.. I miss the Heck out of them.. What a fine proud animal.. Man give me one of them dead game green legged hatch cocks.. The kind you have to kill every feather on and shakes as hard dying on the short line as he did his first buckle.. Damn I miss my game cocks!!!! KGB
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Electric-man
121 posts
Jan 12, 2007
4:12 AM
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Hey Nick, you know those comercials "want to get away" thats what I think about when I see you setting in there all alone on this one! LOL
Been around lots of cockfights and a couple of dogfights, not my cup of tea either! Seems like a small version of throwing two gladiators in the ring and only one comes out alive! Each to their own though!
Wrestling is more to my taste, don't have to throw one"s carcaus in the trash after every match! Each to their own though!
Just thought I would set in your corner on this one! I think its gonna be a lonely corner though! LOL
I do figure that the rest of your post will be good guidelines to follow, thanks!
Val
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2007 4:16 AM
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J_Star
759 posts
Jan 12, 2007
5:03 AM
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Nick,
You are NOT alone in this one. I support you and admire your values. Game fighting is cruel no ifs or buts about it. That is why it is outlawed in this country. In the civilized world, we tend to know what is right and what is wrong and we should know better.
Remember that the people who were brought up around that sport see nothing wrong with it at all, but people who did not will always disagree with the legitimacy of this sport.
Jay
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classicpony
63 posts
Jan 12, 2007
5:41 AM
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Nick,
My dad always told me that a fool never changes his mind. I have found that those words are good words to live by.
Jim
@birdhouse
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Santandercol
644 posts
Jan 12, 2007
6:15 AM
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Nick,
In western Canuckland cockfights and dogfights have never been a popular pastime.From the tirdworld the pastime we enjoy more is the Hammock!!Matrimonial size.
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Kelly
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1-bad-57
14 posts
Jan 12, 2007
7:11 AM
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Hey Nick,
You don't always have my support but I'm 100% behind you on the cock fighting.
I wonder about these guys that say these cocks love fighting. Where do you get the degree to learn how to talk with a chicken?? Do they offer one for pigeon talk?? I want one of those.
I would say if you have a game cock that in the morning you see him strapping on his man made spurs, sending out info that there is going to be a fight tonight, bring your money to bet because someone is going to die and you and the chicken enjoy or love that, you just might be a CULL.
People and people in power have did allot of cruel things over time, so does that make it right? Was having slaves right? how about Hitler and that type of thinking? They just busted I guy here locally for spotlighting and killing 11 whitetail bucks after the season was over, is that alright because he loved doing it? The list could go on forever.
KGB I hope you're kidding in your post??? If you're not what a pathetic way of thinking about life.
Maybe we should have competitions with our rolldowns??? I can't beleive we haven't thought up a cruel game around that yet or maybe we have. Maybe they love doing it!!!!!
Joe
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belle
101 posts
Jan 12, 2007
7:25 AM
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Is it legal for 2 people to go in to a ring with knife and kill one another? On a farm will 2 roosters fight until death or will one run off after it gets beat up? I don't mind seeing 2 rooster go at it as long as they don't have metal blades strapped to them and forced to fight to death, because one will always run off in the end and not get any of the hens. Gamecock fighters also train there roosters to what to fight to death. I have seen some of the best breed gamecocks around and one rooster will live with another and not kill one another. Will a roller roll if it is not trained yes, but will it be as good as a trained one?
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dave
283 posts
Jan 12, 2007
3:29 PM
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Everyone has their own opinion but when they start to impose those opinions on to other than it is a bad thing. How you live your life should not be how I should live mine. You have to remember that there are people that think what we do to our rollers is cruelty. One day we will no longer have some breed because some people will be able to push their agenda and have such fine animals as the pit, rott, bullmastiff, or others all put down because they were deemed dangerous to mankind. Pretty soon we will have animals voting also, lol.
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BR Rollers
69 posts
Jan 12, 2007
7:49 PM
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Just something to think about. As long as mankind has been around, we have fought siamese fighting fish, dung Beetle fights, praying Mantis fights and other assorted insects and animal fights to the death. I believe its got to do with power in the species of which we personally breed for perfection in that sport.
As far as killing chickens I'll bet most people don't even know that the chickens we eat are hens. How many people know that chicks are sorted after they hatch out of the egg?
At that point the Rooster chicks are collected and placed in very large plastic bags and are tied off and sufficated! SO thats MILLIONS of chicks per day that are killed because of there sex. ROOSTERS to be exact! If you counted every Gamecock that dies every year it wouldn't be a fraction of what we kill on a daily basis just so we can have chicken in our stores. The hens we eat only live to 6 to 8 weeks of age before slaughter.
Gamecocks are extremly well taken care of. They are on the average fed the best feed mixes available and most are custom mixed. They are pampered for the most part of 2 years before the day they get to show what they were raised for. They are boxed with gloves several times in there life just so they can show there enjoyment of what they like doing the most. Fighting! When the day comes and they survive they live in the lap of luxury and get to breed hens all they want as to pass on the genes of victory!
You will always find someone who will bitch and complain about something they don't know anything about. We are all to quick to jump on in and be selective on what we kill. It's okay to gas millions of dogs and Cats every day in our country! Or is it?
Oh and don't let the animal rights pussies know we pulled heads off Rollers to cull them or you can bet our hobby will be in jepardy!
As far as Dogs in my view, the good lord put them here as mans best friend and protector. Lets protect them for just that reason.
Keep um Spinnin and keep um Crowin
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1053 posts
Jan 12, 2007
9:21 PM
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A person is "clueless" because they electively choose to raise and compete with their gamebirds?
Here are some interesting stories for you. When I was growing up, our county which was very large, was an agricultural county. And in it was A LOT of game bird breeders that came from many walks of life, from the Sheriff to the farm labor workers. That's right, the Sheriff. Our Sheriff, who was elected over and over again was a game birder. Local derbys would be raided on occasion, but usually not without a warning from a "higher source" that they were on the way. I always thought that was kind of a funny story, especially since I was friends with the Sheriffs son for several years.
When I was a teenager I had lots of game cocks and had several mentors. I remember one time the old lady across the street from us giving me some grief about how cruel it was, blah, blah, blah...about how we trained these poor chickens to fight to the death. I laughed and told her, I tell you what, the next round that hatches, I'll give you one male chick and I'll keep one male chick. I'll turn mine into a pet and keep it from the other birds. And you do the same with yours. Then after a year or so, we will put them together in a pen, and watch what happens. They will fight to the death or to the point of shear exhaustion, and probably even then still keep trying to defeat their opponent, which by the way, was their babied brother.
I don't raise game cocks anymore as I simply do not have the time and the culture of the game around here has changed. But I still have great respect for a game bird and there is nothing quite like the sight and particularly the sound of two well conditioned game birds laying into one another. It is one of those things you either appreciate, or don't. Neither makes a person clueless, just set in their ways of thinking.
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fhtfire
780 posts
Jan 13, 2007
12:19 AM
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I had pigeons as a kid and I even had some game cocks at my friends house. Now that I am older..I really do not like watching it anymore..but I tell you this....they are right about game cocks not being like any other chicken..they are very aggressive and they WILL fight to the death....even if they are in a barnyard...neither bird that is a well bred bird will run..it is like the ability to give up is totally gone. They are bred to fight...and the rooster are excited to fight..I think they actually like it..if you have a game cock in your hand and your buddy does to ..and you let them get a good peck and look at each other..they want out of your hand so bad..to get on that other one..it is like they love that feeling or something...I don't know..cruel...not if it is what they are bred to do....Life is full of choices...and I choose not to see or do it.
Now dogs...a pit bull is bred to fight...they will not run...they will fight to the death...period..there eyes roll back and ears go back and it is on..and they WILL not stop.....you put my lab in a yard with a collie and they will fight until one is dominant and then they know there place..put two pit bulls and it is over when it is over...until one is dead...put one with my lab..and my lab would run..and the pit would keep chasing....I really do not like dogs fighting at all...the pit was bred by humans to be a fighting machine....the Game cock I believe is its own breed from south america that lived in the jungles and they were not a "human made breed"
This is out of the encyclopedia....about game cocks.....The combatants, known as gamecocks or cocks, are not typical farm chickens. The roosters are specially bred and conditioned for increased stamina and strength. The comb and wattle are cut off a young gamecock because, if left intact, it could cause health issues, as frostbite and parasites could affect the tissue. They possess an inherent aggression toward all males of the same species, and do not have to be trained to fight as they do.
It says they do not have to be trained to fight as they do..it is in there genes...humans just enhance the strenght and stamina through selective breeding..the birds are doing what they are bred to do....just like our rollers...they will roll no matter what....we just breed them to have better roll, strength and stamina...one would say it is cruel to breed birds knowing that some may meet there demise by bouncing off the concrete....anyway...I don't like it now..but to each his own.
rock and roll
Paul
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
965 posts
Jan 13, 2007
2:55 AM
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You fellows went and stirred my interest in Gamecocks.LOL.How aggressive are they around people? I like a bunch of roosters(Backyard Fancys)runnin loose around my place.Would the Gamecocks be all over me when I am outside or would I have to keep them caged?I suppose the backyard fancys would be history.LOL.David
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1-bad-57
15 posts
Jan 13, 2007
9:13 AM
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I don't think what animals do naturally is in question. It's how people can rationalize that watching two animals that we lock into an area to fight to the death is really cool and a great sport. Yes, we can rationalize ANYTHING in our own mind.
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rosebudrollers
33 posts
Jan 13, 2007
9:44 AM
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good point 57,Its not the nature of the animal thats the issue.Maybe they are reflecting the nature of their owner? cm
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belle
102 posts
Jan 13, 2007
9:58 AM
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David, Joe Bob has gamecocks that he does not fight and he has lots of roosters living together he even has one or two with green legs. He told me they come from great fighting stock, he traded a friend some pigeons for them, and yes they run around the yard and live together. I am not saying that they will not fight or even kill one another, I have even had cochin bantams kill one another I had a duck kill a goose one day I don't have the duck any more. I do not pull the heads off my culls there is always someone that will take them.
Rooster chicks are collected and placed in very large plastic bags and are tied off and suffocated!
Did I say that was right? NO
who didn't know that we ate hens? O right I live in NC one of the largest chicken and turkey farming sates, So I know A little more about chicken farming than most.
How many of you know that they are going to start cloning cows and hogs for the food and milk?
Just something to think about. As long as mankind has been around, we have fought Siamese fighting fish, dung Beetle fights, praying Mantis fights and other assorted insects and animal fights to the death.
(You forgot horses!)
My point is that if a bird, fish, or a horse want to fight and even kill one another in the Wild with out man missing them up then it was to be.
That's right, the Sheriff. Our Sheriff, who was elected over and over again was a game birder
So because your sheriff said it is ok it makes it ok? That is like a kid saying well he did it so it must be ok. The law is not always right.
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BR Rollers
70 posts
Jan 13, 2007
10:42 AM
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Hey Belle hows it going? You are the guy I talked with that lives up the road from Joebob right?
Well I wasn't going to name names but Joebob has been wanting to take a look at some of my special stuff I have been raising in the past few years. Just because we have these beauties doesn't mean we fight them I just wanted to add. It's not against the law to have and raise them. I can assure you though if Joebob has Roosters running together they will kill each other in time. Especially in the spring during mating season. Each rooster has to be tied or caged in some manner to keep them from getting to each other.
David you can have a Game rooster running your yard and I must say they are very beautiful! They will not attack you...Make sure you have no other roosters or they will fight each other. Even a regular rooster will fight it for ownership of the yard.
They come in more colors then you can amagine!
P.S No modifiers though so don't ask about Reduced, opal, Andalusion, Qualmond or such...LOL
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nicksiders
1215 posts
Jan 13, 2007
11:30 AM
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belle,
I agree with a lot of what you said in your last post. About the culls that you do not cull.......the people that get them, do they understand they are culls? Do you feel okay about passing on culls?
Just some questions I have.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Velo99
855 posts
Jan 13, 2007
12:29 PM
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Pensom knew Scott and KGB,
"The breeding of pigeons is considered a simple hobby providing many hours of pleasureable relaxation at small cost, but it also goes further than that,since we have fanciers among us who take the hobby very seriously and they consider thier efforts something of a duty to mankind.It is to these fanciers we owe a grweat debt of gratitude, because by thier skill and love for the high class stock,we are able to enjoy a product with which to further and extend the high traditions of breeding livestock,even of so small significance as pigeons,and enjoy a place in the sun which only men who know the value of a hobby can enjoy." WHP~Birmingham Roller
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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nicksiders
1218 posts
Jan 13, 2007
1:01 PM
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Kenny, this quote is very timely.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1055 posts
Jan 13, 2007
2:12 PM
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Belle, my story of our sheriff wasn't to imply that his choice made others right. It was simply a story, a true one.
Personally I don't care what someone thinks about issues such as these, they make no changes to my choices or things that I approve or disapprove of. I think dog pit fights are lame, but that is just my opinion and I don't see the point of trying to convince someone who believes the opposite of me that my way is more rational.
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belle
103 posts
Jan 13, 2007
6:39 PM
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nick yes and I don't know a hole lot of people that sell there good birds I don't believe in killing a healthy bird just because it doesn't do something right on less you eat it and I don't eat pets or pigeons. Most of the people that I give my culls to don't fly them to roll they just like pigeons.
BR it is going good how about you, Joe Bob has had his roos running together for as long as I knew him I think some of them still roost in the trees he had one young one run off a few weeks ago and lived at the horse farm I keep my horse at so I took him back up the road. But he keeps his favorite ones in a coop. I love the game birds I have some OEG bantams because were I live I can't keep the big ones.
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nicksiders
1220 posts
Jan 13, 2007
7:14 PM
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Responsible breeders don't pass out the birds they WOULDN'T keep to others; they only pass out birds they CAN'T keep to others. If you can't cull your culls, keep your culls. You will end up spreading junk throughout the land by not keeping or culling them.........how many people are you willing to disappoint. You can't be sure what the none flyers you say you give them to do with the culls.
Do the responsible thing. Cull'em or keep'em.
Oh, hell never mind
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2007 7:16 PM
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Huey
36 posts
Jan 15, 2007
10:01 AM
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People get desensitized to what ever they do. The more pigeons you cull the less it bothers you to cull. The more chickens you kill the less it bothers you. I grew up on a Chicken farm; we own two 10,000 capacity houses and ran 15 others. I gathered eggs on weekends at laying farms. Usually around 18 cases a day, 360 eggs to the case. I caught old laying hens, roosters, and broilers at night thru my high school years. Those broilers were anywhere from 5 weeks to 9 weeks old depending on the market. They were always a mixture of pullets and roosters. Unless they started bagging the day old roosters in the last 10 years then we are still eating which ever hatched out.
I am opposed to folks thinking their hobby is OK and everybody else's is bad and should be done away with. If you want to fight roosters then OK with me. If I want to cull pigeons that don’t fit my rules it should be OK with you. If a horse don’t ride then we need soap and dog food too.
In the National forest where I take young horses for their first ride outside of the training arena, there used to be beautiful trails. The trails were made by four wheelers and dirt bikes. The hunters got turkeys reintroduced. Then they got the four wheelers outlawed because they disturb the turkeys during nesting season. The hikers want the horses outlawed because they crap on the trails. The horse riders and hikers want the hunters outlawed because they could shoot someone. The hunters kill the Turkeys they don’t want the four wheelers to disturb.
I can put a ribbon in my horse mane. Most hunters will figure out it ant a deer. I could not ride during hunting season. Looks like the hikers could step over the rare occasions of horse crap. I really miss those four wheeler trails. The trails they built didn’t cost the government anything.
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