Frankie
1 post
Jan 14, 2007
9:32 PM
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I recently got three pairs of Pensom Rollers 6-11 months old. Never been flown the gentleman had a hawk problem, so he had to stop flying his. My question is... Are they to old to fly and preform good? Should I just make breeders out of them and fly their young? Thanks! Frankie
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luis
128 posts
Jan 14, 2007
9:38 PM
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They're not to old to get them going,but if you don't want to risk them to hawk attacks ....breed them!!
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Frankie
2 posts
Jan 14, 2007
9:57 PM
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Thanks for your advice luis. I want to fly them to see what they do. But I'm afraid that I might lose some of them. So I was thinking the same way... that I might just need to breed out of them. The gentleman I got them from can't fly his birds anymore because of the hawks. I belive him because I while I was there picking up my birds a hawk flew down and landed on his loft. He ran it off and it flew about 100 feet away and landed on a telephone pole and stayed there the whole time I was there. The hawk has been killing his birds through the loft wire. I'm new at this and I don't know bloodlines and names... I hope i remember this right... he said the birds came from Rupert Simms who got his start from Henery Cook whos bloodline goes back to Graham Fireballs. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Thanks for your help. Anymore advice would be appreciated. Thanks again. Frankie
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luis
130 posts
Jan 14, 2007
10:21 PM
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No problem Frankie.Get your hands on as much literature as you can.As w/anything else education is key.Enjoy your birds.This is a great hobby(sport)Enjoy this site,there's a lot of experienced guys on here.
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Shaun
412 posts
Jan 15, 2007
12:42 AM
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I agree. With just three pairs, it's a hell of a risk flying them out. Your main concern apart from hawks is losing one or more when trying to settle them. As for rolling, there's a general consensus that (depending on the stage a family of birds comes into the roll), a bird needs to get a handle on the roll through regular flying at the critical stage.
Most of my birds come into the roll at about 3 or 4 months. One of them, which had never flown before, escaped at 5 months. It's interesting watching a bird which has never been out - the wing movements are jerky and despite its age, it looks like a squeaker first time out. But, because of its age, the roll impulse might well be there. It was with mine, but it couldn't handle it and rolled down frequently. I've not flown it since.
Others may have had more success in settling and flying previously unflown birds, but it will be much easier breeding youngsters, plus you'll be training them from day one. If you lose some of those, you can always go back to the original pairs and breed more.
Your youngsters will also teach you exactly the kind of roller family you have. The first family I bought into were not good, so I quickly moved onto a better one. I would suggest that you breed as many as you can churn out from your pairs, in as short a time as possible. I hated having to train youngsters at all different stages of development, simply because I wasn't able to fill the kitbox quickly enough. That was because I started breeding in the dead of winter and it wasn't a great success - a bird here, a bird there. So, by the time spring came along and the parents properly got into the groove, I had youngsters of all different ages.
Trouble is, with just three pairs, unless you get into fostering with further pairs (they don't have to be rollers), you might well be pushed to kick out youngsters quick enough. You then are faced with the choice of not flying any birds out until you have a sizeable number (by which time they will all be of different ages), or you can fly out the first ones and add to your growing kit, with new youngsters as the season goes on. Both methods bring their share of problems. There is no doubt that having a good number of birds to train, all of similar ages, is the easiest option.
Just some experiences I've had.
Shaun
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Velo99
860 posts
Jan 15, 2007
5:04 AM
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Frankie,
Many of us here have been in your shoes. I started with 4 pair.
I agree with Shaun. You need at least three pairs of fosters. With 6 pairs producing,12 squeaks in 6 weeks under good conditions,you can get 40 birds pretty quickly. Break them into two kits and start flying. Analyze their performance,keep good records,and breed from the best producers.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1059 posts
Jan 15, 2007
10:01 AM
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Don't waste your time trying to fly non-flown rollers out, especially if you are new to rollers. Total waste of time and will give you nothing but utter frustration. Breeding from them is really your only option.
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Frankie
3 posts
Jan 15, 2007
2:23 PM
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Thanks for your advice Shaun. The guy I got the three pairs from has about 10-12 squeakers out of the same bloodlines. I think I might go back and get them. Is ten enough in a kit and what do you think about getting the squeakers? Thanks! Frankie
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Frankie
4 posts
Jan 15, 2007
2:26 PM
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Thanks for your advice V99. Hoe many birds do you think I should have in a kit to get good results? Thanks. Frankie
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Frankie
5 posts
Jan 15, 2007
2:32 PM
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Thanks for your advice MCCORMICKLOFTS. I really want to start flying birds as soon as possible. So I'm thinking about going back to where I got the three pairs and getting all of his squeakers. He had about 12 and I can get them as cheap as I could buy foster parents for the other three pairs' eggs. How early should I start flying them? Thanks! Frankie
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Electric-man
125 posts
Jan 15, 2007
3:48 PM
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If you want, you can send me your mailing adress to vrreneau@suddenlink.net. I've got some articles on Graham Fireballs, I was going to get some awhile back, but it didn't pan out. I don't need it any more!It has a lot of history on the family.
Val
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Frankie
6 posts
Jan 15, 2007
4:00 PM
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Val thanks for your help. I just got an email from Henry Cook over on Earls pigeon talk and said that everything was right except for the fireballs. they were not out of Graham fireballs they were out of Bob Evans whose birds came from Pensom. But I would still be interested in information that you have. Thanks! Frankie.
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Shaun
415 posts
Jan 15, 2007
11:33 PM
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If the squeakers haven't been flown out and settled at the breeder's place, it would be an ideal place to start. You can certainly fly a kit of 10 - assuming you don't lose any! You could then breed from your own pairs and build up a separate kit of a similar number. Once the second kit has pretty much caught up with the first in terms of flying, you could merge the two kits into one. There's no set rule as to the size of a kit, but if you're interested in competition, or perhaps for now just wanting to follow comp procedures in case you do, then you need to be looking at larger kits of 20+.
Shaun
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