Frankie
10 posts
Jan 25, 2007
12:11 PM
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THIS IS A PAIR OF PENSOM ROLLERS I GOT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO THEY ARE OUT OF BOB EVANS OLD BLOODLINE PURE PENSOMS JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU ALL WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF THEM AND WONDERING WHAT COLOR YOU WOULD CALL THEM THANKS
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MILO
133 posts
Jan 25, 2007
1:13 PM
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Oh no. This is going to be a long thread. LOL Good luck with the new birds.
c
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W@yne
211 posts
Jan 25, 2007
1:29 PM
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Frankie.
Most unusual pattern and color birds you have there hope you enjoy them best of luck.
regards
W@yne uk
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Frankie
11 posts
Jan 25, 2007
2:20 PM
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W@yne uk and Milo, thanks for your good wishes.
Dr.LD, I could only tell you what I know and what I've been told. I bought the birds from a guy who lives in the same town as me. He can't fly his birds anymore because of hawks. So he's sell nearly all his rollers. He got these pensoms from a guy who's been raising out of this bloodline for many many years and has not put any others with them in his loft. He got his start from Rupert Simms who got his start from Henry Cook. Henry Cook emailed me the other day on Earls Pigeon Chat and I gave him my number and he called me the other night and we talked and he said, "If these birds came from Rupert Simms which came from him that he had got his start from Bob Evans." No, haven't seen them fly I'm still waiting on them to get use to the place and think of it as home and even then I don't know rather I'm going to fly them. I may just try raising babies out of them. I was told they we're out of fast, tight spinners. I'm new to the rollers so I don't know a lot about bloodlines and names. I'm not worried about competing I just want to enjoy them and watch them roll in the backyard. Thanks for your advice. P.S. You still didn't say what color you thought they were or what you thought of them. Regards. Frankie
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nicksiders
1270 posts
Jan 25, 2007
2:30 PM
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Frankly Frankie I would not venture to say they are "PURE" Pensoms, but that does not mean they aren't good birds and it is only my opinion......of course. Enjoy the birds!
Pickey Nickey.......Nick the Pr_ _ _.......PicNic.....NicKnowse
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2007 2:31 PM
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Frankie
12 posts
Jan 25, 2007
2:53 PM
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Nicksider, Thanks for your time. Rather their pure pensoms or not it doesn't matter to me I'm not trying to sell them. I tend to believe people when they tell me something. Unless I have reason to believe other wise. Because in the end all you have is the word of the person your getting the birds from. Even if it comes with a pedigree. That doesn't mean anything if the person who wrote it out isn't honest. I raised registered dogs for many years and learnt the hard way. Just because a paper says it's got this bloodline in it doesn't make it so. But nobody has answered my original question what color would you call them and do they look like good birds? Regards, Frankie
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nicksiders
1272 posts
Jan 25, 2007
3:06 PM
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I would call them dominate opal indigo(but I am not a color guy). The birds look the type and they look healthy.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Frankie
13 posts
Jan 25, 2007
3:55 PM
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Thanks again Nicksider and you batlizard for answering my color questions. Regards. Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1321 posts
Jan 25, 2007
6:15 PM
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Well everyone seems to be side stepping this but you deserve the truth.
Frankie , someone either lied to you , or didn't know the difference themselfs.
Those aren't pure Birmingham Roller let alone pure old Pensom blood , they are crossbred mongrels , they were originally crossbred for the color.
This kind of deceit is common with most color breeders.
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2007 6:36 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1040 posts
Jan 25, 2007
7:14 PM
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Hey Frankie, those are some pretty rollers! How do they perform?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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George Ruiz
170 posts
Jan 25, 2007
7:23 PM
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Scott thanks for having the COJONES to let Frankie know what he got .
Frankie I will not go into detail here about what you purchused but you can email me at g1ruiz@cox.net
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1041 posts
Jan 25, 2007
7:36 PM
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"SPLAT" That was the sound of someones roller virginity being ravished!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Santandercol
709 posts
Jan 25, 2007
8:02 PM
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Frankie,
Just got into Rollers last year and those don't look like any Pensom birds I've seen colourwise.Pretty looking birds tho'.No doubt.
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Kelly
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smokey
108 posts
Jan 26, 2007
2:02 AM
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nice looking pair of birds frankie. good luck with them. smokey
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Velo99
876 posts
Jan 26, 2007
5:08 AM
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Looks like they have a little tumbler in them. Round head and short beak. When they moult again they`ll have a nice lacey pattern.
Good looking birds though! If they roll Frankie may be the talk of the town.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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J_Star
775 posts
Jan 26, 2007
5:19 AM
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Aren't these also considered Baldheads White flight and Tail. They sure are pretty. They are possible to be crossed with others for color and at the same time maybe not. If I were you Frank, I would not fly them, just breed them and fly the offspring. Enjoy your birds and take care of them. Welcome to the site.
Jay
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BR Rollers
76 posts
Jan 26, 2007
5:20 AM
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Frankie.
I got my first real Rolers in 1973. They came directly from Henry Cook. At that time they were called a pure Pensom strain of Roller.
I can assure you NOBODY at that time or era of breeding real rollers had anything that even came close to looking like your birds in the picture. I know that , Mr Cook knows the same I am sure.
You need to scroll up and read Scotts post again for the real truth. And thats not to say the guy you got them from did'nt hear the same crap story a very very long time ago about these birds as well. He just passed the same crap on down to you.
You did say the guy did not fly them due to hawks right? Well how did he know and why did he tell you they were good spinners then?
If you like pretty fly them your buying the feed. If you want real rollers that perform well I suggest going a different road. The NBRC web site has a classified section now. Some very reasonably priced REAL rollers can be found there. Good luck and I hope you choose the real road its a lot of fun flying a good kit of spinners in the back yard.
Ronnie
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Jimbo113
35 posts
Jan 26, 2007
10:22 AM
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Frankie,
I scrolled back up and read in your post you weren't concerned about competetions and just wanted to enjoy them in your own back yard. Lots of guys do the very same so I would say do that and enjoy your birds.
I don't think I would repeat posting about their lineage though but that's just me. haha.
Have fun with them.
Truly, Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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Missouri-Flyer
115 posts
Jan 26, 2007
10:24 AM
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Ronnie, I believe Frankie stated that the guy he got the birds from did not fly them "anymore" due to hawks, and didnt say that he has never flown them. I think Frankie was just telling us what he had been told and wanted to know the opinions from other roller fanciers.
As a kid around 13 or so I had a bald head pair similiar to these birds that would "flip" with the best of em'. But boy were they pretty! I say breed the hell out of em' and fly the young if it's for backyard pleasure. Jerry
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Eat, sleep, Cowboys, Pigeons... The facts of life
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2007 10:27 AM
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chachi
28 posts
Jan 26, 2007
10:46 AM
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Hey Frankie, welcome. I am new to this hobby myself only a couple years. Been at it part time cause of work, but I have some baldheads in my loft. I will tell you this from what I have learned. If you have not flown these birds then you should not put any effort into breeding around them until you yourself have seen them roll(and try to find someone with an awesome bird to see to actually know what a good roll looks like). We all start on someone's word, but this is not a good thing to hear when you start trying to breed/start a dream on. "I have not flown these but they have great type or They are from an oldline that I don't fly 'cause the blood is too valuable or hawks or they are a Pensom/Mason/Mee/Neibel/whoever line". If that Legendary breeder did not hand you those birds, then he didn't breed them and your rollin' the dice like the next guy, that to me is just a teaser to build dreams on. You want facts. I'll guesstimate this when you hear the term "color breeder", that might apply to whoever bred those birds. No offense, but when the flying stops to preserve the blood, you inadvertently become a breeder of not flyers, so you become a breeder of color/type/show/something? Pensom himself in his book wrote something to the sort, after a long time of breeding and raising(meaning to me flying also) rollers you start to move back toward the hard colors. Blues/reds/checks/bars and such. I have bred a few birds that all started from Baldheads. They are starting to badge over, become checks of red, black,blue bars, and now only a few clean baldheads. Only a few are "flown out", have been hawk smart, rolled good enough to keep around, made it back from an overfly, nature's selection at it's finest. The birds you posted have very clean heads, which says to me someone put two very clean headed balds together(color breeding) to keep those heads pure white. The other is the color, again that is an odd color(color breeding) and the bars on the wings are not very clean or distinct (failed color breeding). Some one at some point in time pumped a color into that pure pensom line you got. Those birds might roll, but after only a few years I would guess their offspring are going to fall apart somehow leave you with the undo stress many (especially me have already gone through). Breed them out it's your house, get your feet wet, you might feed the hawks or roll a few down, but get some pumpers together then get with a reputable roller person who's been around then try to aquire a solid pair to breed from. My opinion, if there is no wind or fog, I'm sure their are some of those hard core flyers out in the rain with saftey glases looking up with a loaded shotgun that might say come on over and check these birds out. Been there done it in the past few years. If it seems hostile here sometimes, it's just passion to not want anyone new to the sport needlessly fail. Please, don't be discouraged by my words though 'cause these birds are awesome when they are in the air and kickin' it! Good luck.
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Jimbo113
37 posts
Jan 26, 2007
1:35 PM
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Chachi,
I liked your post right up to the part where you would hate to see someone fail at it. Frankie isn't going to fail at flying some rollers in his back yard due to ancestry of his birds. I don't recall him asking anyone how they thought his birds would perform in the air or stacked up against anyone elses birds (although he did ask what we thought of them, door opens..haha). He wants to enjoy them from his back yard. If and when he moves into the competetion phase of the hobby he will want to breed another family of birds I have no doubt. As of now he wants to fly his birds in his own back yard and was wondering what the coloring is on them. That question I think was answered nicely earlier I believe.
Have fun with your birds Frankie, you are your own man.
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2007 1:46 PM
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spinner jim
43 posts
Jan 26, 2007
2:13 PM
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Frankie ,Welcome to the best debating society connected to rollers ,you have a lot of fun to come its a fine hobby, first of all dont let anyone tell you that this colour or that colour wont roll its bull,colour has nothing to do with how good a roller can perform its all in the genes, some of the guys on here have a problem with coloured birds (fine everyone has his own tastes) i dont,your best bet is to visit other lofts to experience good rollers in the air and then take advice including the vast knowledge of members who post on this forum,its easy to ask questions and the guys here will be only too happy to help you, keep the birds that you fancy you can allways change your mind later,breed plenty then you can fly and select as everyone else does,the colour of the birds you posted ,over here we call them creme (pronounced cremee) they are a common colour and are generally found in the badge family but not quite so much white around the head,fly em and see, jim.
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chachi
29 posts
Jan 26, 2007
3:21 PM
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Hey Jimbo, your right, I didn't quite mean it like it might have sounded as failing because of the color or any ill will sorta thing. Maybe not do as well out the gate as you could being well informed with the right stock or needlessly taking the looong road to the point one might get discouraged to the point you would want to just quit flying rollers or throw your hands in the air and say what the hell is wrong with these birds. One thing I know for a fact is when you start out on the wrong foot with birds you "think" are the ticket, it takes a long, long, loongg time to get in step! But who knows, they hit the air they could be money :)
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Jimbo113
38 posts
Jan 26, 2007
3:45 PM
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Howdy Chachi,
I think I follow your point there my friend. My point being that they don't have to be world class spinners at all. Maybe just being able to tumble a bit is good enough for Frankie, maybe not, I don't know, couldn't say. But, if they satisfy what he wants then what does it matter to us. They might spin like nobodys business when he flies them or they may not even tumble or somewhere in between...
You are sure right that if he decides to get into competeing he may want to change his mind about using those birds for that purpose. That's the good thing about minds, they can be changed. haha, Some are more resistant to it than others of course. haha (like mine probably).
What family of birds did you say you were flying Chachi?
Best to you and yours.
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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chachi
30 posts
Jan 26, 2007
4:27 PM
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Hey Jimbo, roger that. I get the few birds I have in the air and they rip a few good rolls and all trap back in I'm good for the day. I have Masons. Started out with a kit I bought out of Nebraska from a real nice guy I talked to a bit on the phone/through the internet(I didn't see fly and didn't know how to fly). Lucked out with a couple good birds that stuck. Best spinner I had got out on me first week, hit a few rolls and headed to the horizon. The one he said take care of and breed from, ouch. He sure was right that bird could roll, wish I had that one back to this day. He said they were only a couple generations out from imports from George Mason. I also have some birds that I am trying to work on that started out from a Mason Hen I bred out of the original Masons I started with and a Mason/Turner cock I got. I am trying to switch up a bit 'cause the Masons I have are pretty tough to get in the air and keep there, mine are tough when they are young. I have a huge problem with losses due to area, hawks, my lack of experience,etc. 4 years and I still have not gotten enough for a twenty one bird kit in the air and back. I have high hopes for this coming year though. Got some breeders, enough culls to use as pumpers, and a really hard head!
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Frankie
14 posts
Jan 26, 2007
5:26 PM
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Jimbo, Thanks for your advice and your right I have no interest in competing. That's to much work. That wouldn't be fun or relaxing or even enjoyable to me. For one reason I would have to do a lot of traveling and I hate long car rides. Second reason I would have to find and pay someone to take care of all my other birds and animals. The third reason from all I read and heard to do everything you need to compete sounds like a job to me and I already have plenty of them. ~lol~ I'd be happy just to get a couple flips out of them. Also your right I never said the guy I got them from never flew his birds I said he couldn't fly them anymore because of hawk problems. While I was there getting these birds a hawk flew down and landed on his loft next to us. It acted like it was right at home. He ran it off it flew about 100 feet and landed on a telephone pole and set their the whole time I was there talking with him. He said the hawk had been killing the birds through the wire of the loft, It was 1 by 2 inch wire.
Spinnerjim, thanks for your advice. I'm new at rollers but I agree with you I don't see what color has to do with performance. I have a pair of bald head blacks to I got from the same place out of the same blood. I just posted the picture of the colored paired to see what color people thought they were and to get arise out of all the color haters. ~lol~ I read enough post during the past few weeks to see that their are a lot of people against colored rollers. But, I'm one of them people that believes that sometimes you can have your cake and eat it to. Why not have a pretty bird that rolls to?
Thanks to everyone else who gave me their advice and their opinions. I really appreciate it. Look forward to hearing and talking to you all again. Also, if anybody lives or knows of anybody who lives two or three hours or closer away from North Central Arkansas about 14 miles from Gainsville,MO.... that has rollers and wouldn't mind for me to come watch them roll. Please email me at: frank40@suddenlink.net Thanks again to everybody. Regards, Frankie
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Jimbo113
39 posts
Jan 26, 2007
6:03 PM
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Frankie and Chachi,
Those hawks can take then fun out of an otherwise perfectly good time, that's for sure. We have em bad here in this part of Texas too but they should be headed out pretty soon for the season. I am ready for them to get going.
Chachi, I don't think it is the color of the bird that gripes some of the fellows as much as it is calling them "Pure" anything. I am sure Scott or someone will correct me if I am missing the mark there. No doubt. haha.
I intend to fly some comps. this year good Lord willing. It will be my first time flying competetion and will most likely get my arse waxed but I intend to have fun doing it.
All the best to you and yours (to all).
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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Missouri-Flyer
116 posts
Jan 26, 2007
6:49 PM
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Hey Frankie,
I live about an hours drive from the Ark./Mo. line near Springfield north of Branson. You are welcome to come visit anytime. There are alot of great fliers in the area including the owner of this site "Tony" as well as Hall of Famers and others that have birds that will make your mouth water. Just let me know if I am close enough and we can go and check out others birds also....Jerry
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Eat, sleep, Cowboys, Pigeons... The facts of life
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Frankie
16 posts
Jan 26, 2007
8:04 PM
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Jerry, Yes, I would be glad to come see your birds sometime. Whenever we can work out a time that's good for us both. I've talked to Tony through email.... he said I could come up and see him but I haven't heard back from him. Sorry to hear about your hawk attack. I haven't had hawk problems with my pigeons but I had problems with hawks and my banty chickens and baby ducks. What I found that helped out was a decoy of a hoot owl. Put somewhere where they can see it easy. The more real looking the decoy the better. Also if you can get one that moves a little it would be better. I don't know whether it would scare your pigeons or not. My decoy scared all my birds for a little while till they got use to it. It sure cut down on the loses from the hawk. The guy I got my birds from tried it.... he put one right on top of his loft and so far he hasn't lost anymore birds from them killing them through the pen. But he hasn't flown any of his birds yet. Thanks for the invite. Frankie
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Shaun
426 posts
Jan 27, 2007
12:07 AM
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Chachi, I was interested in your Mason part and the bald bit. I obtained mine directly from George and there were a few solid balds, with many having one or more badges on an otherwise white head. I've since bred dozens and I kick out the same - a few solid balds, with plenty of badges.
The youngsters certainly are a pain to get going, but I'm getting better at it, so it should become progressively easier with each successive kit.
Shaun
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Missouri-Flyer
119 posts
Jan 27, 2007
6:09 AM
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Frankie,
I try and fly my birds around 9am or so, so anytime that you can make it would be fine, especially on a saturday so we could visit another loft or 2. Jerry
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Eat, sleep, Cowboys, Pigeons... The facts of life
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2007 6:09 AM
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Frankie
19 posts
Jan 27, 2007
9:43 AM
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Jerry, Sounds good to me. Could you give me your email address or email me your phone number. My email is frank40@suddenlink.net Thanks again for you time.... hope to see your birds soon. Hey, have you seen the new pair I 've posted.... do you think they'll roll? Frankie
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1349 posts
May 29, 2007
7:44 PM
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Call me Frankie and come visit.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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pat66
8 posts
Jun 06, 2007
4:50 PM
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Franky, Just starting out? If you would like, I will give you a good pair of young Hendersons to help you, all you would have to do is pay for box and shipping. ENJOY YOUR BIRDS,THAT IS THE REAL PLEASURE!! PAT FROM PA.
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4KORNER
4 posts
May 18, 2008
11:26 PM
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first thing u did frankie was open up this convo about a choice you made if your standard is to believe wat ppl tell you until proven different then stick with wat you were told this will confuse you and discourage you if you like the birds its ok its a start and as you grow you will learn and like different birds dont trust these guys who eagerly attempt to sell pigeons based on pedigree and their word the best way to get a good roller is to pick it out of the air and then start to go back into his family if you planning to breed from that family.
none of us are sure of everything feeding breeding kitting competition sickness we are all learning daily years and years of dealing with birds no one wins every competition we all lose birds we all have bad days bad birds all birds dont meet performance standards have fun man learn and dont get caught up with these guys and selling pigeons
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crystalpalace
348 posts
May 19, 2008
9:25 AM
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I was a friend of Bob Evans and dont recall him breeding or showing rare coloured rollers. The last time I saw Bob show was at the California Pigeon Club Annual Show held in Pleasanton,California. Bob exhibited many grizzles at that show. Joe Pelletier and some of his friends organized the Oakland Roller Club and showed rare coloured rollers and standard colors. Bill Pensom, Ralph Hilton, Jim Johnson, Pete Peteren, Conrad Meis, Jones, Machado, Ray Sanchez, Bill Crawford and other roller breeders attended Oakland Pigeon Club Annual Shows. Bob Evans had competition rollers from Bill Pensom but bred them larger in size for showing purposes. I was fortunate to buy some of Bob Evans stock for competition and show that were mated to my stock from Bill Pensom. I have a family from these crossings in my loft and the majority are grizzles and tortishell. The birds posted are not Pensom-Evans pure stock but crossed with rare colored rollers. Ray Sanchez.
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George R.
1301 posts
Jan 15, 2009
5:56 PM
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Pensoms !!!
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2009 5:56 PM
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RXR Loft
393 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:32 PM
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frankie, ditto what pat66 said.. send a box with stamps and I will toss some in..
Norwalk, Ca. 90650
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RxR Loft
Roll'em if you got'em... cuz commies don't roll
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2327 posts
Jan 15, 2009
7:06 PM
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Pensoms wanna be..
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Ralph
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
129 posts
Jan 15, 2009
7:17 PM
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Good wake up call long time fanciers...here is someone new, with perhaps a mentor..couple of guys get together and ship this young person a couple of good pair to start out with. Missouri Flyer will be a good mentor..A couple of good kit birds with great potiental would do wonders.
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De Oppresso Liber
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-mannyfresh- spins
95 posts
Jan 15, 2009
11:55 PM
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well I jus wanna say those ® sum nice lookin birds...not sure of da color but maybe white bars..well enjoy them n don't get discouraged...they ® ur birds so have fun..but I would reccomend u fly them b4 breedin..bcuz u don't wanna breed sum thin that won't roll good..but dats jus my opinion..well good luck n enjoy da birds...they ® real good lookin specimens..
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-mannyfresh- spins
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topnotch uk
93 posts
Jan 16, 2009
2:30 AM
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to me them look like cross-show rollers or some thing never seen them in england lol ha-ha them to nice to be rollers
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
131 posts
Jan 16, 2009
7:44 AM
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Do you realize that Henry Ford LOST...when he, as the major car manufacturer, said.."The customer can have any color they want, as long as it is black". Then some enterprising person decided to build and paint a car another color...Thus Detroit was born. Make applications to the roller hobby and think about it.
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De Oppresso Liber
Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2009 8:45 AM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
189 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:06 AM
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Hey guys, Lets not forget where the "Pensom Roller Club" was 20 years ago. Breeding big buffy modena crosses and calling them Pure Pensoms. Remember you couldn't be a member if you had anything other than pure Pensoms on your property. Some of those birds that Evertson, Mayberry, et al were raising bear a striking resemblance to the birds Frankie posted. This is why I laugh at the whole pure Pensom, True Birmingham BS. Show breeding took the Birmingham Roller down that road, and those guys actually believed they were breeding pure Pensoms. Thankfully we have moved way beyond that.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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speedball
86 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:33 AM
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when i see pretty rollers like that i start shaking like im possessed. i feel they be like flapjacks.
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
133 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:52 AM
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Some like that Henry Ford Model T..black..nice color when shined up..looks good...then others like the mother-of-pearl..candy apple metal flake opaque pink...kinda pertty when shined up..looks good...but cars were not made to sit on the showroom floor..but to get down the highway..So off they go..both doing the speed limit..Now how fast they get to the speed limit is depending on how they were put together..get my drift..but the color has nothing to do with how fast it goes down the road..you M/Cycle riders know what a 'Rat Bike' is...mechanically very sound..looks like a sack of pigeon poo...Some like .......and some like........ What do you like? Well..breed them that way..meet you on the track..P.S. Watch "Pinks" on TV..some cars will really suprise you. P.S. Proverbs 12:1 If you love learning, you love the discipline that goes with it...how shortsighted to refuse correction.
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De Oppresso Liber
Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2009 10:06 AM
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speedball
89 posts
Jan 16, 2009
11:38 AM
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we dont have rollers like that in the uk. i wonder where in the uk pensom took those from?
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
134 posts
Jan 16, 2009
11:57 AM
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Speedball..nobody said he did..but there was a lot of color over there and still is. Give a good genetics man/woman and they can come up with some real fancy stuff. Joe Quinn took Krupke Whittingham almond and in aprox. 30 years came up with Qualmond..Q after Quinn. There is a lot of stuff in that gene box. Just recently the 'Extreme Dilute' came in from South Africa by way of Barkels Lemons..it is now going thru many breeds of pigeons, and fully expect it to show up in rollers if it has not done so already. And I will bet that if the genetics man is a "Performance" oriented person..the spin will really be there. Oh, now I sound like James Turner...well slap my mouth. (smile)
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De Oppresso Liber
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530flyer
11 posts
Jan 16, 2009
1:18 PM
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nice looking birds...
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silent187
280 posts
Jan 16, 2009
1:31 PM
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those birds look tight nice color and pattern
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