tapp
175 posts
Jan 25, 2007
5:01 PM
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BMC, what color is this one. It'a a Mee, hen was yellow and the cock a red bar. It's 5 1/2 months old and really starting to roll well. ------- ---
Tapp
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1091 posts
Jan 25, 2007
5:23 PM
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Same as those ones I posted, spread ash red and really dirty. Probably a hen too. It would be fair to assume the yellow hen was spread underneath since you said the father was a red bar. When they get that dirty it is often hard to figure if they are spread or not, some ash red velvets can get to that point of expression sometimes too without the aid of spread.
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nicksiders
1275 posts
Jan 25, 2007
6:15 PM
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I got in the wrong line when they called out "genetics". Again, I would have declared I got a dun. I am learning some good stuff to keep from embarrassing myself.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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tapp
176 posts
Jan 25, 2007
6:42 PM
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Thanks for telling me what color it was. I was calling it chocolate. It's Spread ash dirty, at least I'll be calling it right now. I'm not breeding for color but I like to kinow what the different ones like this are. Agin thanks Brian. Hey Nick, I don't breed for color! but I'm reading a book, Genetics made simple by Paul P. Cook Jr. kind of enteresting. I like learning new things. I'd like to be able to tell that that Mee Spread ash dirty was a hen with out waiting 6 months to tell. To me that would come in handy! Maybe Brian can tell us some on how he can tell by the mating and color of the parents what sex some of the young will be . Take care all!
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Tapp
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1092 posts
Jan 25, 2007
7:39 PM
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Tapp, I use the "backyard roller genetic jargon" too when jotting down notes about a particular bird in the kit in my kit log book or when referencing a bird to another roller guy. It's too hard to say, did you see that spread ash red undergrizzle expressing dirty and smokey..lol. Dun just rolls off the tongue better. It's kinda like the term Dark Check, that isn't really a correct label when such a bird is actually usually a blue velvet or blue T-pattern. There isn't anything wrong with having slang descriptions of the color of a bird when most guys in a particular hobby know it as such. But if you ever want to expand your knowledge of pigeons which will include genetics, many of the slang terms make it confusing when you are trying to learn about it. Case in point is Dun. Lavender would be another one. What we call them as flyers and what they are genetically are two totally different things.
Learning about what the potential offspring of a pair(s) will be is actually quite easy if you dig in your heels and learn the basics of pigeon genetics. Most mainstream colors in rollers are sex-linked. A few are recessive and then we have modifiers such as spread. It is easist to remember that every pigeon is either ash red, blue or brown. For rollers you can pretty much rule out brown since it is usually only in a few lofts of those who cultivate it. There are some excellent genetics books available that can teach a person in laymen's terms, keeping it very simple. I recommend Axel Sell's. You can also spend some time on sites like Frank Mosca's just to get a feel for the basics.
Brian.
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tapp
177 posts
Jan 25, 2007
8:55 PM
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Thanks agin Brian. I think I'll strap my spurs on so when I dig my heals in they stay! I'll check them sites out. Take care my friend!
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Tapp
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Shaun
424 posts
Jan 26, 2007
4:49 AM
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Brian, my friend, you know what I find really confusing? - It's when English flyers, like me, don't seem to differentiate between mealy, dun and silver, yet use them regularly as descriptions. Dave Moseley is a prime example - I pick him out because he's a generous guy and has often donated birds for fundraising, whether it be over here or over where you are. So, I often get to see the birds he has on offer.
He often refers to his family of birds as dun. I always imagined dun to be a darker brown, yet his are more mealy in colour, yet without any pattern - call it a mealy self, if you will. At the end of the day, Dave (and he's not the only one) is describing 'dun' as quite a light colour. We then throw in 'silver' - which, I suppose, to my mind is still like a mealy without markings - and I'm desperately confused as to the difference.
Brian, if you have the inclination, go to www.nbra.co.uk, click on 'Roller Auction', view Dave's birds and see how the silver roller is described as actually darker than the dun/mealy. How did we conclude this? It seems that 'dun' is thought to be a very light brown, as opposed to darker. Yet, when I was a kid and tried to get into pubs at the age of 14, there were a number of bars called 'The dun cow'. The sign swinging in the wind outside, with the uddered beastie, was orangey/brown.
Shaun
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1096 posts
Jan 26, 2007
10:51 AM
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Shaun, the one in his hands is an ash red bar white flight. The one on the perch is a spread ash red white flight. This is one we would commonly hear referred to as a Lavender.
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Shaun
425 posts
Jan 26, 2007
11:44 AM
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Thanks, Brian. With descriptions like Dave's, you can see where a guy might have a problem!
Anything which isn't quite a mealy, but is still somewhat pale, I tend to call a lavender - it's a sort of catch-all.
Shaun
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Velo99
878 posts
Jan 26, 2007
3:21 PM
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Ok here is my vernacular for pigeons.
Blue Bar,Blue Check, Dark Check Red Check.
Spread is what makes a solid color. Dun is a lighter gray bird usually in check or spread. Tort is anything with more than two colors and it is usually dark. Griz is Griz. Opal is Opal. Then there are balds and beards in all colors.White flight,tail and so on. Smokey makes the bird look dirty,dark beak and toes. Opal gives him a little lacey factor.
Much more than this requires too much thought.
jmho
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2007 3:23 PM
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