mrartg
24 posts
Jan 31, 2007
7:45 PM
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the hen is on the left thats her son on the right. he has just red flecking no black like the hen , just wondering if i could breed these two together.
i heard you couldnt, if so why not. wanted to get your input
thanks
Art
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2007 7:47 PM
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Frankie
57 posts
Jan 31, 2007
8:03 PM
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Art, that's some pretty almonds. i asked the
same question earlier in a post. I still haven't
got an answer. I have bred almond to almond with
no problem. But I don't know I heard the same thing
your never suppose to breed almond to almond. they
say the best crossing is a kite color with an almond.
But I'm still waiting on an answer to on the almond
to almond or mottle to mottle to do or not. Thanks!
Frankie
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nicksiders
1308 posts
Jan 31, 2007
8:08 PM
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I don't know why you couldn't breed'em. They will reproduce....nothing to prevent it.
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2007 8:10 PM
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belle
144 posts
Jan 31, 2007
8:12 PM
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don't know if this helps
http://slobberknockerlofts.com/color_chart/almond/
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luis
150 posts
Jan 31, 2007
8:15 PM
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I believe and i may be wrong,that on the topic of color- almond or mottle.If you're breeding good performing birds(w/performance in mind) it does not matter.You can breed almond to almond or mottle to mottle.Now if your breeding with the notion of getting that perfect almond or mottle pattern then it is best not to breed the same color together.Please do correct me if i'm wrong!
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Frankie
58 posts
Jan 31, 2007
8:30 PM
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Justin, that helped a lot with the website. I still don't know what kind of defects their talking about but now I know what sex almonds to breed with the non almonds to get more almonds. Thanks again. Frankie
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1110 posts
Jan 31, 2007
9:18 PM
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Frankie, I'm curious, was the father to the almond cock in your picture an ash red? The reason I ask is because it looks like an ash red based almond.
Almond to almond matings do work as far as getting healthy offspring but the risk is some can be born with bladder eye which basically means they are blind.
The reason for the theory of always breeding an almond to a kite is because in order to achieve good break and the proper ground color, you need a blue T-pattern base with lots of kite bronze. The better colored almonds will come from an almond showing a ribbon tail.
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Frankie
59 posts
Jan 31, 2007
9:25 PM
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the picture of the almonds are not mine. but thinks for the information that's what I've always heard. if you bred almond to almond you can have eyes problem. what about mottle to mottle? thanks again for the information. i really appreciate it. Frankie
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1111 posts
Jan 31, 2007
10:20 PM
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Mottle to mottle will simply make more mottles. Mottling isn't a genetic anomoly such as the Almond gene or homozygous dominant opal.
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Frankie
60 posts
Feb 01, 2007
12:35 AM
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Thanks Frankie
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
984 posts
Feb 01, 2007
5:19 AM
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Frankie.When mating Almond to Almond or Dom.Opal to Dom.Opal along with Bladder eye(in Almond) you will also get approx.25% that will either die in the shell or shortly after hatching.Usually within the first week.This is based around 100 that you hatch.Other than that if they are both what you want then breed them together and take the losses to get the good ones. David
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motherlodelofts
1350 posts
Feb 01, 2007
6:33 AM
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"Frankie.When mating Almond to Almond or Dom.Opal to Dom.Opal along with Bladder eye(in Almond) you will also get approx.25% that will either die in the shell or shortly after hatching.Usually within the first week.This is based around 100 that you hatch.Other than that if they are both what you want then breed them together and take the losses to get the good ones. David "
Even more the reason to breed them together LOL , seriously ,why would you want something on the property with this fault , shouldn't birds with such a fault be purged out of a performance loft ?
If you don't how does this not interfere with pushing performance forward as you may need to breed it into a direction that may not be the best performance wise due to the obsticles , I don't get it ?
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2007 6:56 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
985 posts
Feb 01, 2007
8:16 AM
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Scott.Thats why you don't have anything else on your property.You don't get it.LOL David
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Batlizard
16 posts
Feb 01, 2007
8:54 AM
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I didn't see any questions in Art or Frankie's posts in relation to performance at all. Looked like a straight forward question regarding a fatal gene linked with color/pattern. Why bring performance into the equation when it evidently wasn't a concern for either individual.
Rocky
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motherlodelofts
1353 posts
Feb 01, 2007
9:07 AM
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Sorry Rocky ,it's the only thing that I think about when it come's to these birds , what on earth was I thinking ? I have to remember that others don't give it that much thought and it is not the one and only priority such as it is for myself , my mistake.
Scott
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J_Star
787 posts
Feb 01, 2007
10:09 AM
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If the question doesn't consider performance, then the logical place to ask that question would be NPA site. That is where the gurus about color are gathered. Around here we only know of performance issues.
Jay
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BR Rollers
80 posts
Feb 01, 2007
10:17 AM
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Scott keep in mind. "Some have the best and the others have the rest"!
I have been around pigeons for over 40 years. Somethings just will never change.
Ronnie
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2007 10:20 AM
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Batlizard
17 posts
Feb 01, 2007
1:44 PM
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Jay,
My apologies if I spoke out of line or context. I wasn't aware that this was strictly a performance based site. With all the talk of hunting, big cats, sharing pretty pictures, and hawks I was under the impression that anyone could ask anyone something here. Is this not the case? Perhaps I need some direction as well. It's not my nature or intent to cause a conflict between the purpose of this forum and it's loyal participants. Just don't like to see someone get pounced on and picked apart for asking a simple question.
Rocky
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J_Star
788 posts
Feb 01, 2007
4:46 PM
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Rocky, No need for an apology or direction (lol). Most of the folks on this site are based on performance issues such as feeding, flying, competing and everything that goes in between. If you ask a performance question, you will get ton of answers but when it comes to color issues, such as breeding this to that and what you get, most of us just know basic genetics. BMC is the only one that I know of that have somewhat extensive knowledge about color. Other than that we are not that good at answering those types of questions.
About other topics being discussed here is normal this time of year. Most of us have our birds on lockup and busy with other activities such as hunting and winter sports. People usually like to share with their friends the things that excite them and make them happy. Therefore, when a thread starts about a topic beside the Roller pigeon hobby, we let it proceed and have people interact with each other in a nice way and share their achievements and their trophies. You will learn allot about people just by showing them that you care.
Usually the hot debates start around this time of year because people are inside their homes and around the computer much of the time. But as of Tony's and the moderator’s opinion that debates are a healthy way to harness allot of knowledge and promote learning of others opinions, experiences and the way they do things. That if the debate is on friendly grounds and don't become a shouting match and name calling. Which we usually intervene to put the discussion back on track and stop any none sense from escalating. For the most part, most of the people of this site respect one another and online friends. The few whose personality clashed big time with the majority of the people here left because the respect factor vanished. We try to be at our best behavior most of the time but sometimes things get a bit ugly amongst friends but usually resolved quickly. That is all I have to say...just hang around and you will see what I am talking about.
Jay
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Frankie
61 posts
Feb 01, 2007
7:18 PM
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Rocky Thanks for saving me some time typing I think the question Art and I asked was already answered before the B.S. started some people need to reread my post it was Art not me asking about breeding almond rollers I said I had breed almond and almond togather I did not say they where rollers I think some people on here enjoy putting down other people
Jay When I joined this forum nowhere did I see you could only talk about performance if that is all we had to talk about this would be a pretty dull site lol if you are not going to answer or try to answer a question someone ask or at least try to point them in the right direction like Justin did when he posted the website then why post anything go somewhere else and post on something you know about or start a new post maybe somebody would talk to you I am glad to see Rocky and others are seeing what I see a few people on here enjoy putting down and ragging and starting B.S. if this is the way you all have your fun and get your kicks then maybe you should get a new hobby to do during your downtime becasue I do not find it funny or amusing and I am sure other people don't either and I hope everyone in the roller sport that competes are not like the few of you on here and no I am not talking about everybody on here you know who I am talking about and they know too and if this is how you treat new roller members maybe that is the reason it is a dying sport and not more people do it or maybe that is your plan to discourage anybody else who might think about doing it I guess everybody you run off is one less you have to worry about lol it is not really funny everybody seems to think as along as you put lol you can put anything you want you do not have to worry about me competing so one less person to worry about so relax and take a chill pill as far as I am concerned the only people that answered anything on this post was Justin, who posted the website, David, McCormickLofts, Rocky ,and a few others those are the real sportsmen and the kind of people I signed up on here to meet Thanks Frankie
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luis
152 posts
Feb 01, 2007
7:33 PM
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Hey guys feel free to ask any question you like and i'm sure it will be answered the best way possible.I respect other peoples views and believe yours should be respected as well even if we don't agree!We're here to share info not to push our agendas and misconceptions on others.Let all draw their own conclusions from their own experience.That's usually the way it works out anyway!To each his own i say.
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BR Rollers
81 posts
Feb 01, 2007
7:56 PM
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A couple of great examples of what a great Roller community we do have here on this site are as follows.
I made a post a last year about one of my very best birds being sick. It had a very short time before dying of sickness. Within an couple of hours I had several posts from people giving there best to save my bird. I administered the remedy and bred several great spinners last spring from that bird. Thanks you to all who posted.
Another time a hawk caught one of my best kit birds I had planned to stock! It had a tear in the breast and the neck and was bleeding bad. I quickly made a post for help.
With in an hour I had photo's of other breeders experiences with hawks for visual examples of what I was looking at. I also had several people jump in and give me the best medical pigeon advise I had ever seen! That hen has since then healed up and ready to breed now. Again Thanks again to all who helped me on that one!
So you see its not all about anything but true sportsmanship as been said by many on this site.
Thanks again guys!
Ronnie
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motherlodelofts
1354 posts
Feb 01, 2007
8:12 PM
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Pull your thumb out of your mouth and quit pussy footing around and name names Frankie , quit trying to back door it like a coward !
It is a performance breed whether you or others like to think so or not ,and that is the only way I see it, They are either first rate or culls, period
If you girls want to stroke each other in private you go right ahead , but this is a thread in an open forum .
And if you don't like what goes on here I'm going to tell you the same thing that I tell my grand daughter when she is snivling much like you like to do "tough titty said the kitty" by the way , I'm pretty sure that Gandi came up with that phrase.
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2007 8:36 PM
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Frankie
63 posts
Feb 01, 2007
9:01 PM
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Thanks Scott for proving my point just like I said you Scott I said your name does that make you feel better you knew who I was talking about and so did everybody else but if you like to hear your name fine SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT there does that make you happy do you feel better now unlike you and a few other people on here you must just love going around and causing problems and trying to make people feel bad I have only been here a few weeks I get it Scott your alpha dog you are right on everything nobody elses opinion matters it is your way or the highway Art asked a simple question if he could breed almond rollers togather i do not have almond rollers to breed togather i did not say i did i simply asked a question if you could breed almond to almond and what problems you might have i know you are a big shot roller man but there is other breeds of pigeons that come in almonds besides just rollers but i guess since i have other breeds of pigeons that i am not good enough to own rollers now so i guess you and your pack has something else to jump on me about so bring it on i expect nothing less from you and your pack and i have just been here 2 weeks i really do not see how Tony puts up with your B.S. i guess you must make lots of money off of you to put up with you can not blame him there but maybe one of this days he will get enough of it and do something about it instead of just warning you i think this sight is a great thing and there is alot of great people here but you and your pack are not some of them i think if you was not here it would be alot better and its been awhile since i said Scott so let me help you get your Scott fix before i go SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT
hope that makes you feel better so keep on doing the things you do so well putting people down maybe one of these days you wiill convince yourself that you are better then them and the more you post on here the more people will see what i see thanks for proving my point Scott Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1355 posts
Feb 01, 2007
9:16 PM
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There you go Frankie , I'm glad that we were able to get that off of your chest instead of that back door crap .
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2007 9:26 PM
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luis
153 posts
Feb 01, 2007
9:18 PM
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Hey Scott i'm pretty sure you know a thing or two about rollers,but this is the kind of animosity that shouldn't be tolerated.This is a free country and we are all entitled to our opinion weather you like or not.By the way seems to me like you're the one that needs a good stroking so you can release all that bottled up .....whatever you wana call it!!
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Frankie
67 posts
Feb 01, 2007
9:37 PM
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Luis, maybe if they stroked their self more maybe they would spend less time on here putting people down. Frankie
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W@yne
236 posts
Feb 01, 2007
10:22 PM
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Hey Guys
Give Scotty a bit of respect if you guys that have had rollers for two minutes don't listen to experienced flyers on some debates on here whats the point of answering some of the questions you gave,If you dont like Scottys answers then dont read them. Scotty must get headaches just reading some of the stupid questions on here not regarding performing rollers as i do also.
regards
W@YNE UK
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2007 10:23 PM
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Frankie
74 posts
Feb 01, 2007
11:22 PM
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W@yne, you have to give respect to get respect. i asked a simple question did i get a respectful answer from Scott... No. so why should i show him respect when he shows me none? it don't work that way. no doubt him and others like him know more about performing rollers then people like me will ever know. but does that mean i have to put up with the B.S. to learn about performing roller. no, i don't think so. I'm sure their are other people on this site that know just as much if not more then he does. i would rather take advice from someone that knew just half as much as Scott did. if they respected me as a human being. you said if i didn't like Scott's answer then not to read it. would it not have been easier in the first place for Scott simply not to answer a post if he had nothing good to say? Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1361 posts
Feb 02, 2007
10:57 AM
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"Even more the reason to breed them together LOL , seriously ,why would you want something on the property with this fault , shouldn't birds with such a fault be purged out of a performance loft ?
If you don't how does this not interfere with pushing performance forward as you may need to breed it into a direction that may not be the best performance wise due to the obsticles , I don't get it ?
Scott "
Frankie , I'm assuming that the post above is the post that got you on this little school girl rant , I'm kind of at a loss here, how was that post putting others down ?
Scott Campbell
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luis
155 posts
Feb 02, 2007
11:34 AM
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Wayne as i stated before.I have a lot of respect for the knowledgeable guys in this site,Scott included but that's not the point.I have a fair amount of knowledge on Sporting pouters and would never treat a newcomer or anyone for that matter with disrespect unless provoked!Others with as much knowledge post replies without name calling or being disrespectful and i quote"If you girls want to stroke each other in private".Where is the respect in this?As Frankie stated you have to give it to recieve it.I could understand the passion Scott has for the preservation of the performance breed he loves,but lets not forget to treat each other in the manner we would want to be treated.Pigeon knowledge aside the rest is just decency.
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2007 12:25 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1130 posts
Feb 02, 2007
1:23 PM
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Steve you are mostly correct.
My understanding of the almond gene is that it carries with it a little recessive package that can effect the eyes if combined into a homozygous state, resulting in what is referred to as "bladder" eye which can look like an eye with no pupil in some birds. If the recessive "package" isn't doubled up, then the offspring will be fine. I think the meaning behind "don't pair them together" is based on simply trying to avoid raising youngsters that will have that mutation.
It is similar to dominant opal. The same saying of not to breed them together as the resulting homozygous dominant opal offspring have a tendency to not survive. But I know of several guys in our Wests who have doubled them up with no problems.
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Steve_uk
70 posts
Feb 02, 2007
1:26 PM
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You learn somthing new everyday thanks bruv!
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motherlodelofts
1364 posts
Feb 02, 2007
1:27 PM
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Luis, maybe you need to back track on this thread and see just who was slinging mud.
Scott Campbell
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Frankie
80 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:27 PM
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No not just that post you assuming I was breeding almond rollers and from my past experience with you and your buddies on this site I do not like your attitude I do not care how much you know about performing rollers not once did you ask what I was looking for in a roller or what I wanted to get out of it from the moment I posted the mongrel rollers as you call them I have got nothing but attitude and B.S. from you and people like you you say in some of your earlier post that this is all done in fun and to learn more about people on here and thier life I personally think you could learn more from them by asking them a few questions instead of criticizing and slamming them down and I think that other people would agree with me so the first post you start respecting me I will start respecting you Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1367 posts
Feb 02, 2007
3:12 PM
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Actualy Frankie I posted a response to Dave's post and never said boo to you on this thread and yet you jumped on me like a drunken circus midget that just caught his bearded girlfriend with the cyclop fat man.
As for your Mongrels , you posted a picture with a claim of them that you were "told" by whoever you got them from that obviously was false , so we helped you out and told you that they were not what you were told , is that where all of this started ?
As for your respect , I'm not one that has to feed my ego with such ,sorry dude but I could really care less.
Scott Campbell
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Frankie
84 posts
Feb 02, 2007
3:27 PM
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Like i said earlier i have alittle time left to chat with you maybe i will speak in a language you can understand better nana booboo stick your finger in doodoo i am like rubber you are like glue whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you maybe thats more your level Frankie
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knaylor
443 posts
Feb 02, 2007
3:51 PM
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Hmmmmmm lets see. Scott is one of the more respected men in the roller world!!! Just because he is honest with a few of you color breeders that cant or wont handle the truth you are all bent out of shape...LOL go figure????
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Steve_uk
71 posts
Feb 02, 2007
3:53 PM
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hhahahahahaha you guys crack me up!
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Frankie
85 posts
Feb 02, 2007
8:37 PM
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knaylor, who pulled your string? maybe you need to get some glasses or have somebody read the posts to you. i don't know how i became a color breeder of rollers. i do have other breeds of pigeons and different colors so i guess i am a color breeder that way. but we're talking about rollers. I'm not a rocket scientist and nevered claimed to be but even a mentally challenged person knows before you can be a breeder of rollers of any type of roller you would have to first have rollers hatch out some eggs and since my mongrel rollers have not even started sitting it would be pretty hard to be a color roller breeder or any roller breeder for that matter. you're just one more person on this site with your head shoved up Scott's a**. so maybe you need to go and reread the post before you go and jump on the keyboard. Frankie
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Velo99
897 posts
Feb 03, 2007
6:40 AM
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Frankie,
Maybe you should back up a little there bro. I for one am of the opinion that you`re a little over the top for someone who has been here for just a short period of time. You were welcomed to this site a while back. Since then you seem to be on a tirade. There is a difference between defending ones position and outright disrespect you are showing some of the best flyers in the world. Some VOLUNTEER thier time,energy and lots of money to the oranizations that put on the flys and other functions.
Go over in the corner,sit on your stool,get a cold drink and listen to what these guys have to say. You might learn a little something. Respect is to be earned not given.
Perhaps you should visit the archives on the NBRC and WC sites. Especially the previous scores. Some of the guys you have been berating have more forgotten more about rollers than you or I will ever know. I don`t take lightly to my friends being insulted. Please take my advice and chill bro.
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V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2007 6:44 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1069 posts
Feb 03, 2007
7:13 AM
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Hey Frankie and guys, I think what is going on is everyone has a different style of posting. Some are more short and to the point. Others go out of there way to say things in a nice way.
I learned a looong time ago to differentiate between style and substance in order to have effective business and personal relationships.
Just be yourselves and learn to look past "style" and find the substance.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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knaylor
444 posts
Feb 03, 2007
9:14 AM
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Frankie, puuled my strings???? no one!! Im not crying or throwing a fit or calling names like someone..LOL I also am not a rocket scientist, but dont need to be to know who the color breeders are..LOL I hope one day we meet so you can help me pull my head out of Scotts A**!!!!! Pretty strong statements dude!!
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Frankie
86 posts
Feb 03, 2007
2:21 PM
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you just proved my point again Naylor in order to be a colored breeder of rollers or any rollers you have to first raise some rollers duh lol and if we ever meet I will be more than happy to pull your head out Frankie
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2007 2:31 PM
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Hector Coya
107 posts
Feb 03, 2007
2:44 PM
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Boy some people like to start crap out of anything,get a life why dont you, better even get a good life maybe you can see the positive side of questions.
Hector C
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Frankie
87 posts
Feb 03, 2007
2:46 PM
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v99 never once did I say Scott and his buddies did not know roller pigeons in fact if you want to go back and reread some post i have said several times that they know more about rollers than i will ever know but that still does not give them the right to disrespect me or anyone i came to this site to learn about rollers not to deal with all of this B.S. the one thing i did learn from Scott that i want to thank him for is to stop sugar coating and call it what it is so that is what i have been doing when i first came here i was not this way but after a bunch of post later i am now and i think you have the respect theory a little wrong you are suppose to have respect for everyone to get respect back when you lose respect for somebody then you have to earn it back all i have to say on the matter anymore if you want to post anything to me as long as you respect me as a person i will do the same for you but if you don't expect to get the same thing back Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1372 posts
Feb 03, 2007
3:24 PM
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Lay off of the booze .
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2007 3:28 PM
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