Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1066 posts
Feb 02, 2007
10:57 AM
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The word according the BMC. LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Batlizard
25 posts
Feb 02, 2007
11:19 AM
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Thanks Tony - only difference is, when I change the channel, The Simpsons don't follow me over and interrupt my clear picture of Everybody Loves Raymond. True?
Rocky
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knaylor
440 posts
Feb 02, 2007
11:32 AM
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Nick, i appreciate your apology and I'm sorry if I said anything to offend you. But I was brought up to get respect you have to give it. At least I took some of the heat off Stan the last couple of days ~lol~ But, I truly think you and Scott would serve your rollers better and your performing hobby if you tried a little harder to get along with people especially them just starting out in rollers. no matter what the color of the roller is they might learn or find out just like you say that colored roller don't perform as well as standard colors and decide to go to strictly standard colors. but don't they deserve the chance to decide that on their own? instead of certain people trying to force feed it to them. i understand where your coming from on the rollers but the only chance the rollers have to survive and stay around is for people that truly love them no matter whether it's backyard flyers or people who compete. After all didn't all of you competition people start in the backyard as backyard flyers? just a thought, Frankie
This shows how much you really know Frankie!!! LMAO!! talk to the people that know them and see how much they have helped the hobby and the new flyers around them!!!
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2007 11:34 AM
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longarm
64 posts
Feb 02, 2007
12:20 PM
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talk to the people that know them and see how much they have helped the hobby and the new flyers around them!!!
Case in point scott and I dont realy see eye to eye yet he is willing to do the leg work to try and get me included in the world cup. He has access to info and people I dont. There is a big line between being hard headed on a subject and being a good person ( scott I promise I wont tell anybody). c.j.
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motherlodelofts
1363 posts
Feb 02, 2007
12:30 PM
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Rocky the reason it doesn't get that far is because it is a battle of wits over blood not performance. The performance doesn't matter to them. If every bird that had color birds in their background were judged by the highest authority as being better than the so called pure birds, they still wouldn't accept it and would continue to beat the tribal drum against their belief against the sinful crossings way back somewhere in time. Kinda silly really, but you learn a lot about people this way.
Kinda early in the day to be hitting the bong isn't it bro , confused or not I still love ya in a non gay way LOL Rockey and Frankie should make you a fine pair of groupies LOL LOL
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2007 12:31 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1131 posts
Feb 02, 2007
1:29 PM
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No bong hits here bro..lol
Prove my opinion you quoted is wrong.
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Frankie
78 posts
Feb 02, 2007
1:58 PM
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Like I stated earlier I have no doubt that Scott and other people like him on here know about performance rollers and yes I am new at this just trying to get back into rollers only had a couple of pairs when I was a kid but I have had pigeons my whole life and now I have decided to get back into rollers one of the reasons I came to a site like this was to get advice on rollers from expereinced people I did not come to this site to be disrespected and belittled and told what I should do I came here for advice and help alot of people here on this site seem to think that I should just grin and bear it and let Scott and other people like him say what ever they want to say and learn from it I do not think so I think Scott and people like him should tone it down a little be helpful without insulting if you have nothing good to say then don't say nothing I never said I wanted to breed colored rollers I said I wanted to look a pics if people had some and yes I have a couple of pairs of colored rollers mongrels I guess I do not care I did not pay anything for them I traded some other pigeons so if they roll or not it doesn't matter if they don't I will get rid of them if they do I won't point is thats my choice my other point is that if every new person to performing rollers is treated like I was by these so called mature performing roller breeders then I am surprised there is any new people picking up the hobby now I agree that I like pretty colored birds but that is not the reason that I want to get back into performing rollers I do not remember one person on this site asking me what I was looking for or wanting in a roller I just posted a picture of a colored pair and immediately became the enemy of a few people on here it is hard to take the so called advice form people like that Scott says he does not sugar coat nobody asked him to but on the other hand he does not have to as critcal as he is everybody says that is just his way and I believe that he eally does enjoy making people feel that way or he would not do it you might not be able to teach an old dog new tricks but we are not dogs posting on here we are suppose to be mature people so I will say it again anytime someone on here wants to answer one of my post with a respectful answer I would be glad to see it but when somebody disrepects me I have no respect for them Frankie
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1133 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:04 PM
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Frankie, if you ask for help or advice, and someone tells you their opinion of what you should do, that would be considered advice...no?
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Frankie
79 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:12 PM
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yes if they answer the question without trying to insult you or be a smart a** when they are doing it I am about like Scotts way of thinking now tired of beating around the bush and sugar coating it Scott and his select few are a** holes no matter how much knowledge they have on performing rollers that does not change the point they are still a**holes and I am sick of having people come to their defense and not saying that you are coming to their defense or that you are not I am just stating that anytime that i have ever talked to you on here you answered my question without making stupid little insult comments and never once disrespected me more people should be like that on here Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1365 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:17 PM
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Brian , you and I are flyers , when has it ever been not about performance for me ? you know me better than that as I know that you are a competitive flyer even though your one line has strange blood buried deep into it.
We are friends and have been for a while , we can also bump heads here and then leave it here , which is the way it should be , but that quote honeslty didn't make one bit of sence to me , and added just more confusion to the peanut gallery crowd.
Scott
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motherlodelofts
1366 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:20 PM
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Franky , I'm trying to get a read on you here , can't figure out if you are just over sensitive, or just not that bright, or both , the more you rant I'm leaning towards both.
Scott Campbell
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1067 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:38 PM
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Frankie, congratulations, that is the damn longest run-on sentence anybody ever posted on this site. You should get a medal for that one! LMAO!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Frankie
82 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:45 PM
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post you just like starting B.S. instead of helping and htat is fine if that is the way you want it i have no problem with it anytime i have some free time and you want to get on here and disrespect me and call me names and treat me like crap i can return the favor i do not like it as much as you but i am damn sure not going to take it and no i stopped lol along time ago becasue i do not find it funny i would rather be spending this time talking and learning about performing rollers and to all of you out there that say ignore it click on by it or go to another post that is easier said then done when you are not the one being treated like shit so if you have been treated the way i have then let me know how many of you really just let it go i would rather be reading that then B.S. from Scott and all the Scott lovers Frankie
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Frankie
83 posts
Feb 02, 2007
2:48 PM
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Thanks Tony i appreciate that still have not heard from you when are you going to let me come up and see some of your rollers perform Frankie
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Velo99
895 posts
Feb 02, 2007
3:27 PM
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Quotes from Pensom
" In all rollers we have a color problem,for while all colors and patterns roll perfectly we cannot breed for correct spinning and color at the same time. If we continue to breed for color we lose the finer qualities of the spin,"
"I would like to point out that the Birmingham is bred for it individual qualities and is valued for the same. It is not bred just to make up the numbers of a busy kit of tumblers.It has some very special characteristics of its own which have to be present,otherwise it is only a Brimingham Roller in name."
" As a footnote to the foregoing,I would add that,while my views regarding color are my own,I feel it would be doing the fancy and the breed an injustice if encouragement was not extended to those fanciers who choose to cultivate those richly colored and gaily marked birds which have been so highly esteemed in the past. By all means let us maintain variety in color and markings.The glamour of the Birmingham Roller is probably the reason we have such a huge number of adherents."
WHP covered it all.
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V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2007 3:28 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1068 posts
Feb 02, 2007
5:04 PM
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Hey Frankie, once this weather spell has passed, I would love to get some rollers in the air for you and some of the other local guys.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1134 posts
Feb 02, 2007
5:16 PM
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Kenny, why do people cling to the ancient writings of long dead guys? Things change and so do opinions.
Scott, of course we are flyers and both are hardcore about it and like yourself, it is only about performance for me. My suggested point wasn't that guys like yourself don't care about performance, it was meant to imply that guys such as yourself don't care about the performance of the birds with mixed up pasts. I should have worded that differently and it might have been more clear.
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fhtfire
794 posts
Feb 03, 2007
9:54 PM
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Frankie,
I would not worry about Scott so much. If you knew him in person you would see that he writes like he speaks. Straight to the point. If you knew him you would know that a lot of what he writes is not harsh..if you can actually piture it coming from his mouth..LOL!! Scott is very knowledgeable and has helped a lot of people out...including myself.
We must remember that everyone has an opinion. Just let the ones that you do not agree with..get to you. I agree with a lot of what Scott says and I don't agree with a lot of what Scott says...and that is no disrespect in any means to anybody. I was told that using pellets on you kit birds is a bad thing....I disagree....this is just an example....everyone does a lot of things the same...and a lot of things different.
The fact of the matter is you got birds that you like...you pay the feed bill...so piss on anybody who says anything different. Now if you want to get into comp...then you better listen to the "Base" of what people have to say. What I mean by "Base" is that there are certain things that everyone does when training and breeding rollers...then there are some things that are done different. YOu must start with the base that seems to work for everyone and then TRY all the different things that fanciers do and do what works for you. Everyone will build there house of kit birds from the same base...but the walls and floor plan are for you to make.
There are a lot of people who are the first to pop off and do not have a leg stand on..but they will tell you they have numerous legs..LOL!! just ignore those people and move on. There is a lot of good people on this site with a lot of information...just like any hobby..you have to push your way through the bull shit and the rude people and take what works for you. Just remember...you make your hobby what it is...nobody else does....Take all the good that you can and ignore the bad. If you truly are new to the hobby and love pigeons..it does not matter one dumb diddly dumb dumb doo what somebody else says...because you can turn off your computer and go to your loft and enjoy your birds.
Embrace the ones that fit your personality and avoid the ones that do not....even if they are the best in the hobby. There are some fanciers that I know personally that are very respected that I could care less about there opinion...and some that are great that fit my personality and those are the ones I go to for advise and opinions...so listen to who you want and don't even bat an eye at the ones that get under your skin...there are plenty of good fanciers to embrace.
I have been in competition all my life in the athletic and livestoch venues...and trust me there are people out there that no matter how good you do...they could do better or they talk crap about you....or make excuses on why you did good or bad....but to succeed as a competitor...you let your skill do the talking...the best always come out ahead no matter what crap is spoken. Just remember you will always hear...that the refs sucked...the judge was to lose...my birds have better quality then his birds and we were the same..or he only scores touchdowns because he has a good line up front....there are ALWAYS people trying to know you down..and ones that will never think that there competitor has improved over the years...just my thoughts..from experience...
Rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
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Frankie
88 posts
Feb 03, 2007
10:48 PM
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Paul:
I agree with you completely. I shouldn't let things like that bother me. But their are some people that know how to push your buttons, if you know what I mean and I do believe that their are lots of good people on this site, I've met a few already and hope to meet more. Thanks for your advice! Frankie
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Missouri-Flyer
196 posts
Feb 04, 2007
5:56 AM
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Brian wrote: Kenny, why do people cling to the ancient writings of long dead guys? Things change and so do opinions.
Brian, my friend, I said a comment similiar to this a few months back with negative results, as in negative remarks..but good luck tho..LOL..Jerry
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Eat, sleep, Cowboys, Pigeons... The facts of life
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Hector Coya
108 posts
Feb 04, 2007
6:40 AM
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If you are still looking for the ultimate spinning roller,you should get a new family of bird's ,LOL.
Some of us that have acheaved that can move on and play around with color,
Hector C
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 6:40 AM
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Batlizard
26 posts
Feb 04, 2007
7:13 AM
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Brian,
You've got my support in your question. I've learned recently that Pensom, althought a great man and hobbiest, was what would be called today a dreaded Feather Merchant. I understand that he brought some birds over through Canada and then down to the states. Beyond that, any flea market or fellow fancier that had something to get rid of, he took. Voila! It's now a Pensom bird.
I find little validity in his writings - at least in today's world. Doesn't mean for a second that he was not a great man and that he did wonders for the roller and the hobby.
Rocky
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nicksiders
1347 posts
Feb 04, 2007
7:54 AM
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Rocky,
Whose writings do you find valid?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Batlizard
27 posts
Feb 04, 2007
8:23 AM
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Nick,
I'd like to say those of the people that are flying their birds today. For example those on this forum and elsewhere. I tend to adhere more to the applied knowledge of a few rather than generics that were jotted down years ago. As with anything, this bird has changed. So have the demands upon it. It only makes sense that the practices and tendencies of it's breeders would also.
So, a straight answer would be, the writings by you Nick. And those of Scott. And those of anyone else. Sad thing is...we never do get to that part. Too much time spent on hammering the color crap into the ground. Pity...you guys probably have a lot to offer once past the agendas.
Rocky
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Velo99
903 posts
Feb 04, 2007
8:30 AM
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In defense of the quotes. The point I was trying to make seemed to have been overlooked. When this book was published in the late 50`s, evidently the same topics of debate were HOT then too or WHP probably would not have felt the need to include them.
I do believe that Tony paraphrased the last quote when he posted to the affect that a lot of fanciers are drawn in simply by the magnificent array of colors available in the breed.
When I made a statement similars to BMC, a year or two ago I has hammered like a tack, what gives?
Interesting finds from the archives:
motherlodelofts
394 post s
Oct 24, 2005
9:39 PM
Here is the facts folks , these are pigeons , nothing more and nothing less.
And yes I for one always get get carried on this lousy topic and do not like where they end up .
It doesn't matter what you are raising and if you enjoy it keep doing it.
The interaction and relationships with the people involved here and in the sport and hobby no matter what they are breeding is far more important then what type of birds are in our backyards.
Scott Campbell
From Tony C 2/8/06
What is a Birmingham Roller Documentation /paste
A Treatise on the Art of Breeding and Managing the Almond Tumbler-1800-1805 as quoted by H.P. Macklin in 1954, in The Roller Pigeon- "Almond color is a mutation from the original rock dove blue and probably appeared very early, undoubtedly, in England. There is ample reason to believe the almond tumbler was used to breed the Birmingham Roller".
Tom Monson quote from Earl's List, 9/16/05-"The more interesting question might be, 'Which came first, almond tumblers in England or Almond Oriental Rollers in Turkey and Persia? The best evidence seems to be that the first Orientals were brought to Britain about 1850-1870. Almond tumblers were around at least a hundred years before that...
Certain English roller strains in 1925-1935 benefitted from infusion of blood from competition tumblers, probably the magpie-marked competition tumbler (Mags) to try and obtain the hair-trigger breaking ability, as well as the mental inclination towards much more frequent breaks or turns. About the same time, other fanciers developed and perpetuated the short-faced, recessive and black badge family of competition tumblers. Tipplers were crossed into some families for their high flying characteristics desired at the time, and for eye color. Much of that blood has been bred out of today's Birmingham Roller, while the unique, sudden breaking tendency has been retained."
In North America, the first reference to Birmingham Rollers was in a classified ad in the "Homing Exchange" out of Germatown, Pennsylvania: "Herbert Lyman, Waltham, Mass, Breeder of well marked and fast performing long-faced tumblers and Birmingham Rollers in black, red, blue and yellow saddles and badges; white, black, red, and yellow solids and mottles." This predates the Canadian imports of Whittinghams by McAree of Toronto between 1890 and 1895.
BY Nick 06.28.06
People purposely breeding rolldowns; breeding rollers with other breeds for color or other purposes; selling birds as rollers that don't roll(culls); and the list goes on and on and it is tolerated because we "live in a free country" or "the roller world is big enough for everybody". About makes me want to puke. We have people in this hobby who are not liked because they are "pureist"? Give me a break! What is not good about a pureist in this hobby? Is it because they keep us honest in the hobby that pissess everybody off? Hell there is kinda like a champaign seamingly going on trying to discredit them. You all know who they are. I think we need rules of ethics and if someone is found not in compliance we should take his PX priviledges away from him or something, hell I don't know. I know that I am living in a dream world on this issue and nothing will be done; nor can it be done. The definitions and scope are just too large.
Sometimes it makes you think seriously of withdrawing to your backyard..............before I am chased there(LOL)
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Snicker Rollers
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V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 9:59 AM
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motherlodelofts
1376 posts
Feb 04, 2007
8:41 AM
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Brian,
You've got my support in your question. I've learned recently that Pensom, althought a great man and hobbiest, was what would be called today a dreaded Feather Merchant. I understand that he brought some birds over through Canada and then down to the states. Beyond that, any flea market or fellow fancier that had something to get rid of, he took. Voila! It's now a Pensom bird.
(any flea market bird ? doubtful and makes no sence what so ever , but one thing he did do was export from England various "chosen " birds to particular breeders , and yes they would trade birds back and forth with the exception of Smith who had a vast knowledge of inbreeding/linebreeding and applied it to his birds , he wouldn't let anything in from my understanding )
I find little validity in his writings - at least in today's world. Doesn't mean for a second that he was not a great man and that he did wonders for the roller and the hobby
Rocky
( if you find "little validity " it is because it is going over your head as some of it does with many of us , but on the other hand, do you live and die over everything he wrote ? "NO". , but the more I learn the more I understand just how "valid" the bulk of his writings are )
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 8:48 AM
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nicksiders
1348 posts
Feb 04, 2007
8:41 AM
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Rocky,
I don't believe the Birmingham Roller has changed. What describes its performance a hundred years ago is true today. What has changed is the number of quality breeders. There are more knowledgable breeders today; hence more quality rollers today.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 8:42 AM
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knaylor
445 posts
Feb 04, 2007
8:47 AM
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If you are still looking for the ultimate spinning roller,you should get a new family of bird's ,LOL.
Some of us that have acheaved that can move on and play around with color,
Hector C
That is a good joke hector!! thanks
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motherlodelofts
1377 posts
Feb 04, 2007
8:53 AM
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If you are still looking for the ultimate spinning roller,you should get a new family of bird's ,LOL.
Some of us that have acheaved that can move on and play around with color,
Hector C
( Now that has to be one of the "dumbest" things I have ever read , the thing is from what you have written in the chat I know that you think it's true , which is a real loss for you as it's doubtful that you have anything close to ultimate and doubtful that you even know what it is)
Scott
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Batlizard
28 posts
Feb 04, 2007
9:13 AM
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The BR has changed by the standards of the NBRC and the Fall Fly. The BR was originally a very deep rolling breed. That has been cut shorter so the frequency increases in order to score higher.
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Batlizard
29 posts
Feb 04, 2007
9:16 AM
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Scott,
I never I said I found NO validity in his writings. Much of what he wrote can be and is applied by many in today's world. However, I would trust the words of a man actively breathing and testing out words from long ago or brand new practices, over that of written text to be adopted, mis-construed, or interpreted in any way, form, or fashion. In other words, there's too much subjectivity for me to base my decisions on. If I want to know something...heck. Better yet, let's take a look at this forum. What's the point? If Pensoms writings had it all, then there'd be no point in it. I mean, it's all in the writings. BS - we come together and "try" to share common practices...not based on what someone read and thought it meant. True?
Rocky
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knaylor
446 posts
Feb 04, 2007
9:25 AM
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The BR has changed by the standards of the NBRC and the Fall Fly. The BR was originally a very deep rolling breed. That has been cut shorter so the frequency increases in order to score higher
Rocky with the proper judge this is not the case. there are quality and depth multipliers that will out score frequency. It only doesnt work when judges are scoring stuff that shouldnt be scored..
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 9:26 AM
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motherlodelofts
1378 posts
Feb 04, 2007
10:06 AM
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"The BR has changed by the standards of the NBRC and the Fall Fly. The BR was originally a very deep rolling breed. That has been cut shorter so the frequency increases in order to score higher"
Not hardly Rockey , there isn't a flyer that I know that doesn't breed for depth as long as the bird can handle it and mantain qaulity and have the charactor to handle it.
Such birds aren't controled by the roll nor due they avoid the kit due to "fear" of of being stimulated to roll.
In short ,if the qaulity and charactor isn't there it's meaningless.
Scott
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motherlodelofts
1379 posts
Feb 04, 2007
10:19 AM
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Scott,
I never I said I found NO validity in his writings. Much of what he wrote can be and is applied by many in today's world. However, I would trust the words of a man actively breathing and testing out words from long ago or brand new practices, over that of written text to be adopted, mis-construed, or interpreted in any way, form, or fashion. In other words, there's too much subjectivity for me to base my decisions on. If I want to know something...heck. Better yet, let's take a look at this forum. What's the point? If Pensoms writings had it all, then there'd be no point in it. I mean, it's all in the writings. BS - we come together and "try" to share common practices...not based on what someone read and thought it meant. True?
Rocky
Rocky , the working knowledge that we gain is going to be through our own practical hands on experiance of the birds themselfs.
What we read ,either here or elsewhere , just gives up knowledge to store and to ponder over to see if it relates , as we learn through experiance some of what we learned through others makes a world of sence and some doesn't.
Many time's we just don't have the experiance to understand what has been put in front of us , only to later on have a light bulb come on and then get the message .
And sometimes that message is "what a dipshit" LOL ,we never quit learning , and if it wasn't from others experiances and them shareing and teaching me along the way I would be a lost pup as much of the pieces of the puzzle would never have been found by me and me alone , and a puzzle it is, this is a very complex breed that goes far beyond just a bird rolling.
Scott
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Frankie
89 posts
Feb 04, 2007
10:40 AM
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Hector Rocky you better get your rabie shots some of the pack is back and showing there teeth lol ha ha Frankie
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Batlizard
30 posts
Feb 04, 2007
10:42 AM
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Kevin and Scott,
I stand corrected. I was not aware that a kit of 60'-100' rollers could compete in the Fall Fly and the World Cup.
Thanks for the clarification,
Rocky
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Batlizard
31 posts
Feb 04, 2007
10:45 AM
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"Many time's we just don't have the experiance to understand what has been put in front of us , only to later on have a light bulb come on and then get the message ."
Scott - might you apply this to just a small portion of these color guys' viewpoint? If they're not asking you about the percentages to keep from an Helmet/Roller cross, then just maybe - maybe - except that the breeder is trying to breed the best performance they can. Not be badgered because of the color of their bird. Afterall....
motherlodelofts
394 post s
Oct 24, 2005
9:39 PM
Here is the facts folks , these are pigeons , nothing more and nothing less.
And yes I for one always get get carried on this lousy topic and do not like where they end up .
It doesn't matter what you are raising and if you enjoy it keep doing it.
The interaction and relationships with the people involved here and in the sport and hobby no matter what they are breeding is far more important then what type of birds are in our backyards.
Scott Campbell
Rocky
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motherlodelofts
1380 posts
Feb 04, 2007
1:43 PM
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"Kevin and Scott,
I stand corrected. I was not aware that a kit of 60'-100' rollers could compete in the Fall Fly and the World Cup.
Thanks for the clarification,
Rocky "
It is rare that you will see a bird able to hold the qaulity out past 60 ft , such birds usualy are hitting such depths due to instability , in which case most either get a handle on it or end up dead , and most will fight coming out of the roll to some degree (no qaulity).
I do have a few oldbirds that will hit 60 when they feel like it, but normaly they will keep it shorter than that.
I will get quite a few y/bs that will hit the heavy depths only to shorten up as they get a handle on stability , the one's that don't will kill themselfs sooner or later , normaly sooner.
In short your remarks are pointless because except for on the rarest of birds qaulity won't hold, and depth is the same as frequency , if the qaulity isn't there it is meaningless , in fact, it is just a cull.
As for the F/F and W/C , the multipliers (depth/qaulity) will make you or break you , short birds won't get you far, this "short worker" garbage come's from non flying backyard flyers that would rather "tell" everyone how good their birds are.
Rockey , you are throwing out silly statements that show your inexperiance with this breed , hopefully you learn something here.
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 1:47 PM
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motherlodelofts
1381 posts
Feb 04, 2007
2:16 PM
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"Scott - might you apply this to just a small portion of these color guys' viewpoint? If they're not asking you about the percentages to keep from an Helmet/Roller cross, then just maybe - maybe - except that the breeder is trying to breed the best performance they can. Not be badgered because of the color of their bird. "
Rockey , if that is what someone enjoys , more power to them, just be upfront with it and don't make claims that they are something that they aren't.
As for breeding the "best" perforance they can, that is like saying to "make a left turn and a right turn at the same time" it is one or the other , not both, and a little detail will make or break a line of birds , color breeding is just that , color breeding.
Scott
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Batlizard
32 posts
Feb 04, 2007
2:31 PM
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Scott,
You are such the authority LOL!!! Okay, so what you're saying, and admitting by the same token, is that the BR was in fact developed to be a deeper bird than what we have today. Only today, we rarely see such a bird due to it falling apart due to frequency and/or depth - mostly depth. Translation...the rollers of the BR strain, type, breed, were/are all culls. Why? Because they WERE in fact bred for depth. I challenge you or anyone else to prove to me or the next guy that the BR could hold itself up to the the standards (scoring system) of the NBRC and the World Cup when it was first developed. When it was developed, it wasn't done for the purpose of competing in a scoring system. It was developed by "backyard flyers", like it or not, for they're enjoyment. It was not developed with the mindset of "Oh jolly good show mate - let's ship these off to America and see how it holds up in the Roller Bowl". As you've said...it was only a frigging pigeon.
Talk about smoke and mirrors (sorry I've seen that posted the past here). Same stance as you with the color guys. What you have is a COMPTETITION ROLLER. It's been modified from what was the original BR. It is not a BR. If a color guy has an odd color, it's not a BR either. Period, end of story.
Don't try to insult me with what you THINK is lack of experience with the breed. I've had these birds and flown these birds, and researched these birds longer than most people on this forum. I just know crap from the cream. I'm not trying to start a pissing match with you either. Just keep your jabs close to your chest. I guarantee it, you'll be thankful you did.
Rocky
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motherlodelofts
1382 posts
Feb 04, 2007
3:20 PM
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I don't have to try and insult you , you do it all by yourself with dumb comments ,Qaulity has always been formost , that is what seperates the BR from the tumbler breeds , deep shitty birds are very easy to breed , competition has always been a part of this breed.
You obviously don't have the slightest grasp on the breed and your responses are baseless and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise, enjoy whatever it is that you do.
Just another shmuck thats full of talk with nothing to back it up
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 3:34 PM
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Batlizard
33 posts
Feb 04, 2007
3:52 PM
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Put up of shut up eh Scott? Is that what is always comes down to? Talk about being full of shit. Pensom, with his BR/BS imports, never had a thing to prove. Guess the name said it all. Hmmmmm..... And PLEASE let me know where it is proven that the BR was developed with the intent to compete with it. That is, if competition was always part of the breed.
As usual, you dance around the statements that back you into a corner. Only by lashing out and acting like a child are you able to keep your gang in control and a sense of self-worth.
Scott, there's no doubt that you've done the foot work. But to negate what another has done, just because he/she doesn't compete or boast about it, is just plain and simple childish. And let's face it, for you...if a person doesn't put up a score high enough to justify a visit from the all mighty Scott Campbell, they're just not worth mention.
I've said what I needed to on this thread. Looking forward to so many more discussions...
Rocky
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 4:28 PM
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motherlodelofts
1383 posts
Feb 04, 2007
5:02 PM
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"Put up of shut up eh"
Yep , pretty much it in a nutshell.
Scott Campbell (from the corner)
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Batlizard
34 posts
Feb 04, 2007
6:04 PM
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Wouldn't expect any more. Once again...don't entertain the whole post...just the part that makes you feel superior.
Well, I've been put in my place boys. My 40+ years in the hobby and sport have once again been superceded by someone with less than 10 years in the hobby and sport. Errr ummm, was it that I wasn't taken seriously because nobody knows my name with a score beside it. Guess it really doesn't matter in the end.
I'm going to go lick my wounds now everyone. Besides, there's better entertainment on the tube right now.
Rocky
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motherlodelofts
1387 posts
Feb 04, 2007
6:33 PM
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OOOOOOOOH sorry , LOL
My first Rollers I had when I was eight, I also has Parlors and Trumpeters.
Through High School my FFA project was Racing Homers along with livestock , guess what , it means NOTHING.
I have been working this family for nine years , that is also when I got "serious" and to take it further than just a backyard hobby.
Prior to that it was just a collection , even had some Mutts even though I didn't know it and I was just your typical backyard pigeon keeper.
like yourself I didn't really know much other than careing and health , but I didn't ptretend that I did either.
I have made it a point to travel this country standing under countless kits in countless backyards , many the best in the country and Canada , much of it judging and some not, come April I will spent a week on the road standing under kits judging another region accross three states.
Sorry if I don't seem impressed with your 40 years , but such coments don't impress me.
Scott Campbell
PS I'll be 49 this month
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2007 7:25 PM
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motherlodelofts
1392 posts
Feb 05, 2007
4:44 PM
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Nick, i wonder why roller competition is dying out?
Frankie
Oh how did I miss this little gem ?
Frankie , you may want to check out your facts before making silly comments , the growth of the sport has been unbelievable and just the opposite of what you posted above.
Not only in the US but the World cup takes in the USA (includ. Hawaii),Canada,England ,Denmark , Holland, Ireland,Austrailia and South Afica.
All of this is judged by one finals judge , there has never been anything like it and it keeps growing to the point of the fear it may out grow it's britches.
I might add that all of this stemmed out of the N West International fly between the N west and BC Canada.
Scott Campbell
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Frankie
95 posts
Feb 05, 2007
5:45 PM
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If everybody in the sport is like you it would have been dead a long time ago i do not think you have the people skills it takes to keep the hobby going just by yourself you have proved it over and over by each post you write because if you were the only one on here i had to deal with and get my info from then i would not be interested in rollers anymore nothing about you impresses me and i feel sorry for anybody that has to deal with you in real life if you are even half as bad as you are on this site I have said it before Scott you do not have to answer every post the world does not stop turning just because you do not put in your two cents Frankie
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motherlodelofts
1396 posts
Feb 05, 2007
6:18 PM
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Well Frankie, you did state a fact (by you) that was not true , and now you have learned something whether you like it or not, what I posted here was a "fact" not just my 2 cents worth .
As for my people skills, you may want to look in the mirror as I have far many friends here than I have enemies and we all get along fine , now just why is that Frankie ?
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2007 6:21 PM
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Spud
72 posts
Feb 05, 2007
6:49 PM
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Rocky, you don't have to go back very far in the topics in this forum to see plenty about performance. The problem seem to be the goal of breeding. I guess I bring a bit of my back ground with me here. I bred birds dogs for 20+ years. I saw it all, Engligh Pointers bred into Brittanys to get more run. People who don't hunt breeding dogs and claiming they are super hunters when they have absolutely no idea if the pups will even point. (many times they wouldn't). So I'm seeing here much the same with the Birmingham Roller. What is the purpose that each of us have for breeding. Is it performance, is it color, is it just because we like pigeons. When we are dealing with a perfomance breed, that has to be the highest calling.
Spud (alas Spudinski)
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Frankie
96 posts
Feb 05, 2007
9:08 PM
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maybe they figured out it would be easier to agree with you then disagree with you. maybe they decided to put up with you and your ways instead of trying to get you to change. who knows maybe they just have the wool pulled over your eyes or maybe they think that if they agree with you and your way of thinking you might help them sometime down the road. maybe they have alterial motives for putting up with your BS. On a serious note Scott; all the stuff that you do competitions, judging, different websites and organizations, etc. do you still have time to enjoy your rollers? I mean have fun or has it all become an obsession or a job for you? Just wondering. By the way you act and sound on here it doesn't sound like your having fun unless your ragging on somebody. Frankie
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