JMUrbon
218 posts
Feb 07, 2007
3:39 PM
|
I was recently on the BR chat line and there was a gentleman that made the comment that he had lost 2 kits recently and had 50 pairs together to make up for the loses. I had to question his antics because I feel I have been doing this long enough to know how very difficult it would be to produce 100 stock birds. I asked him if they were all good stock birds and his answer was yes so again I had to think to myself just how difficult it would be to get 100 GOOD stock birds. Guys please give me your thoughts on this and please feel free to be honest. Remember I mean QUALITY stock birds not just a bird that will fertilize an egg and one that will lay one. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2007 3:40 PM
|
Jimbo113
71 posts
Feb 07, 2007
3:54 PM
|
----------My thoughts were an imediate "WOW!!!"
How awsome would it be to be able to put that many QUALITY pairs together and fly their young out??? You would have plenty of youngsters to work with. I don't know the fellow or his birds so I couldn't say with any certainty, so I wont. haha. Personally, If I had say 5 pair of Surenuff High Percentage breeders,,,, I would rather work with those and do a bunch of fostering with those other pairs for the 5 very best pairs. That's just me though.
50 top quality pairs..... it should be worth at least another "WOW!!!!".
Truly, Jim
"We Don't Rent Pigs"
|
Missouri-Flyer
210 posts
Feb 07, 2007
3:56 PM
|
that could also depend on how fat the guys wallet is. Maybe some of these "50" pair of birds were purchased as proven breeders, but at the same time, I dont think I could keep up, nor would I want to..Jerry
----------
Keep it simple and to the point. If it doesnt involve you, keep quiet.
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
|
JMUrbon
220 posts
Feb 07, 2007
3:58 PM
|
Jim that was exactly ny response. I would much rather focus in the very best than to try to weed through 50 pairs youngsters. I feel that a quality breeder had at the very least be able to reproduce itself on more than just one mate. That in itself would take a long time to prove out. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
motherlodelofts
1420 posts
Feb 07, 2007
4:45 PM
|
Makes no sence at all , if they are stock qaulity 8-9 pair is all you need , if indeed they are stock qaulity , that should leave him several AWSOME kits , hmmmm I'm still working on just one LOL.
But my money says that few if any are stock qaulity because the mentality doesn't fit and the guy is just wasting feed and perch space.
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2007 5:07 PM
|
Hector Coya
117 posts
Feb 07, 2007
5:12 PM
|
Hi Joe
Let me explain if i may,
I told you i had about 50 pair's, I dont breed out of all of them becouse i like to focuse on sertin familys in sertin times. Ive had rollers since 1974 and Bob Scott line since 1982,
Like i told you i have birds going on 15 to 16 year old, thats longer than some people here had rollers.
I have many bird's i payed good mony for and many i stocked through the years,lets say you have 10 pairs, of those pairs they are over 10 years old, you want to stock something from them that gives you 2 for every old bird thats 30,then you end up getting afew bird from a friend that had to get out of birds,you know his birds are as good as yours and from the same breeder so its not hard to have that many good birds ,if its that hard i sugest you try a diiferent family,i would give you a few squeeckers for free if you ever come viset me.
I also ended up with a hole family of Norm Reed that im working with i flew them and they where verry nice,maube its too much for some people to handle but like i said i pay the feed.
almost every weekend my backyard is full af friends i give away many birds and thats part of the friendship i enjoy in this hobby.
Hector Coya
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2007 5:15 PM
|
birdman
308 posts
Feb 07, 2007
5:22 PM
|
I breed 60+ birds and usually have 1 or 2 exceptional spinners that are worth a try in the stock loft, but quality spinning and re-producing quality spin don't always go hand in hand.
Based on my personal experience I don't ever expect to have more than 10 pairs of breeders.
|
JMUrbon
221 posts
Feb 07, 2007
7:32 PM
|
Hector I didnt bring any names into this and really had no intention to but since you jumped in I will tell you that I still strongly disagree with you and further more if the birds you posess are that great you should be leaps and bounds above anybody in the hobby. I am not a guy that likes to disrespect anybody but to tell me that you would give me some squeekers for free was almost comical to me. And you are rite, you feed them so its your perogative but that doesnt mean that your explanation is going to change my thoughts on it at all. Its still crazy and I think your program would go much further if you focused on the best. Joe Urbon
We can discuss this offline if you would like. jmurbonlofts@sbcglobal.net
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
kcfirl
47 posts
Feb 07, 2007
7:42 PM
|
Hector,
I had to commend you for being willing to put your name out there as the guy who said he had 50 pairs of good rollers. Very few would do that Hector and I commend you for it.
Now if you have 50 good pairs, I could sure use one or two of them!
Ken Firl
|
Hector Coya
118 posts
Feb 07, 2007
8:51 PM
|
Ken
Its my opinion and my opinion only that my birds are good,
I wasnt being comical to Joe by Ofering some squeekers,if thats how he took it he has a bigger head than me LOL.
Yes I put my name on his thread i have nothing to be ashamed of if i think my bidrs are good its just my opinion i dont think people should get uptight about it especially if they never been to my house and never seen my birds.
This bashing is getting old.Hector Coya
|
nicksiders
1379 posts
Feb 07, 2007
8:55 PM
|
Hang in there, Hector
---------
Snicker Rollers
|
Velo99
909 posts
Feb 08, 2007
4:43 AM
|
Hector.
Tell us about the top ten.
Name,rank and percentage.Please
kh
----------
V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
|
Hector Coya
119 posts
Feb 08, 2007
2:34 PM
|
Hey KH
My top 10 would be the family out of a bird i got from Bob Scott he was LAPAL 76-856 he was the last son out of JLSmith NBRC 67-1315 i bred him to a hen from Frank Lavin grandaghter to 1315. i have a hole family of them ,856 lived to be 19 years old.
They produce a verry high % of real fast and deep birds,
My other family is out of the redheaded hen line,i started with in 1982 still inbreeding them and still producing great birds.
ive been around a long time here in so.Cal.as you know some of the best breeders lived in so,Cal
i remember seeing some of todays top flyers jumping over fences to get Bob Scotts rolldowns,
Ive Had birds from Homer Cordere Frank Livin Mcdowell and many other,i remember Norm Reed buing birds from everybody back in the old days.
Hector Coya
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1112 posts
Feb 08, 2007
3:27 PM
|
Hey Hector, I think you are fine having that many birds. It does seem go against the established view of only using a few good pairs.
But, you know what you have and sounds to me like you know what a good bird is so, in my view, if the management is done correctly and you are not overwhelmed by the load, I don't see a problem with it. Have Fun With Em!
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2007 3:29 PM
|
Velo99
910 posts
Feb 08, 2007
3:44 PM
|
Hector,
How long was the old cockbird good for. Nineteen,wow,thats a long time for a pigeon.Good Job
kh
----------
V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
1150 posts
Feb 08, 2007
4:25 PM
|
A friend of mine had two brothers, both pure Smith cocks that lived to be 21 and 23 years old. The 21 year old one fertiled the year of his death. I bred from the hen he produced from that fertilizaton for a while.
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2007 4:26 PM
|
Ballrollers
659 posts
Feb 08, 2007
4:38 PM
|
Joe,
A lot depends on the stage of development of this guy's breeding program. Especially in the early years, and depending on a newbie's success in scoring top-of-the-line breeders (yeah, right!) he may have acquired a lot of B quality birds with no idea on how they produce, so he's just throwing birds together and flying them out to see who is doing what. I admit that is really giving him the benefit of the doubt, though. After two or three breeding seasons, a guy outta be getting a handle on the producers.
Chances are that he has just not yet raised the bar on his standards for performance very much. There is a certain numbers game we all play to some extent, depending on hatching rates, weaning rates, predator losses, overall production of A-kit birds, etc. And the number depends on the quality of the birds one starts out with, and the number of breeding seasons under our belt, don't you think? But, I agree. It's hard to imagine 50 pair needed under any circumstances.
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2007 4:56 PM
|
Missouri-Flyer
212 posts
Feb 08, 2007
4:39 PM
|
Hector,
as Ken stated, if you have that many good pair, and are overwhelmed and need to dish out a few, let me know as I have been contemplating starting another family other than the one I am working with...Jerry
----------
Keep it simple and to the point. If it doesnt involve you, keep quiet.
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
|
Hector Coya
120 posts
Feb 08, 2007
5:23 PM
|
Jerry
Im in So, Cal.I dont ship ,but if you come down imalways willing to shear what i have,
the old cock bird was fertil till about 17 years of age.
I dont fill overwhelmed by so many birds,
Most i use as fosters for other birds.
Why do i feel like i have to keep explainign myself,
i leared to take a mans word for what he said unles i saw diferent, none of you have been to my house so what do you know about my birds.i grew up with an old rollerman next door when i was 11 years old,he took me to many peoples lofts i never knew who they where, believe me ive seen my share of birds,
Hector Coya
|
Missouri-Flyer
215 posts
Feb 08, 2007
5:30 PM
|
Hector,
I didnt mean any disrespect by my comment..I was being serious....I grew up in Riverside (actually Bloomington) and seen my share of good fliers and birds in the area, and visited Higgins loft many, many times. His birds may be different than what he had back in 85...I go back there once a year to visit my family and wife's family....I will look ya up if that time comes...Thanks for the offer!..jerry
----------
Keep it simple and to the point. If it doesnt involve you, keep quiet.
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
|
George Ruiz
184 posts
Feb 08, 2007
8:01 PM
|
Hector I have been to your house several times and yes your birds spin thier ass's off!!
You seem to always have a kit or two that will put on a show for everyone.
whatever it is your doing keep it up I always enjoy watching your birds fly when I visit you.
George
|
Spud
76 posts
Feb 09, 2007
8:20 AM
|
Hector, You've been around a long time and everyone who's been to your loft and seen your birds agrees that you have some good stuff. So when those who haven't seen your loft or birds are critical, and they consider your offer of youngsters a joke, man that's got to hurt. I guess what I take away from this is becareful what you share in the chat room and even in this forum. Unless you are in someone's back yard and can see their eyes and hear their voice it's pretty hard to take them in context.
Spud
|
Hector Coya
121 posts
Feb 09, 2007
3:51 PM
|
Thanks George
Thanks for getting my back,
Thanks Spud ,no i wasnt hurt he thought of my offer as a joke,i was shoked,ive never turned down a gift bird even if i though the bird was inferior,i would fly it and let him know what i thought out of respect for that person,but thats me ,thanks again hector Coya
|
JMUrbon
225 posts
Feb 11, 2007
8:23 PM
|
Just wanted to let you all know that in know way do I mean to disrespect Hector or his birds. The rejecting the offer for squeekers was not and is not disrespectful. I have no need for his or anybody eleses birds in my loft. That does not mean that I couldnt use them but mearely that I am satisfied with the stock I have. Hector if you are capable of breeding from 50 pair and able to justify it then by all means. I Just know how much time it takes to work bird and with that many young there is no way to work them all unless you fly oversize kits. There just isnt enough hours in a day. I also can understand how you could get that many possible stock birds and I added possible because they would have to be in a program for at least 5 years to me in order to prove themselves as a producer.
Anyway if you feel I have attacked you then I apologise as that was not my objective. Joe Urbon
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
Hector Coya
122 posts
Feb 11, 2007
8:39 PM
|
Hey joe
you dont need to apologize,its cool.
Eveyone is diferent i enjoy breeding and after i fill up my kits i still breed and give away or sell the rest,i only fly 2 kits,but i can breed 200 young,i give them to friends so they can tell me if they roll good.
I like to help new guys starting out so if they are in my area me being the Precident of the club have to help new members,Hector Coya
|
luis
166 posts
Feb 11, 2007
9:19 PM
|
I could attest to that!Hector helped me out a couple of months ago with some squeakers and a young hen.I still have 4 of those squeakers and the young hen.He has helped many that i know of.He's certainly not in it for money.Keep up the good work Hector,many talk a good game,but actions as they say speak louder than words.
|