JMHD
115 posts
Feb 09, 2007
6:14 PM
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This hen was given to me by Beaver Dayton she was in his kit flown out and proven 40' super fast spinner. She will also be bred this year on 136 Houghton cock.
John M.(HDRC)Loft So,Cal.
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birdman
309 posts
Feb 09, 2007
9:57 PM
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Man, to my eyes that's one big ass looking body on such a small headed bird..lol
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2007 9:59 PM
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JMHD
117 posts
Feb 09, 2007
10:28 PM
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Probably or might also be camera angle might playout a bit but she can spin with the best of them and by the way isn't what it's all about. Ivan Hanchett witnessed this bird in the air she is worth stocking.
John M.(HDRC)Loft So,Cal.
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John
50 posts
Feb 10, 2007
8:58 AM
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John,
Are we into show rollers are birds that spin? You stated that this bird can spin with best of them and that all that matters. I saw your birds last weekend and they look real good.If we have birds that spin great and look great in the show pen then thats a bonus.I thought spin was main purpose.There are are many people whos birds look outstanding in the show pens but they don't show much spin. I'm sure I could go out and trap some commies and some of them would have the right type and expression but that alone wouldn't make them spinners. Keep it up your headed in the right direction.
John Moore
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birdman
310 posts
Feb 10, 2007
9:18 AM
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Yep, it's all about the roll.
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motherlodelofts
1432 posts
Feb 10, 2007
9:22 AM
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John , I still don't like this particular bird nor would I stock such a bird, not every bird belongs in stock just because it is a good performer , some are just nothing but forever kitbirds.
Scott
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JMHD
118 posts
Feb 10, 2007
1:03 PM
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John you said it the look is definetly a bonus it's about the roll thanks again to you and Rod Fomby for coming up to judge our club fly you guy's know birds and you guys do an excellent job judging. Hey Scott i think we have been around enough to know not every bird is a stock bird but what are we stocking (Birds that perform that can spin with quality and the depth ) of coarse the bird has to be able to produce and if doesn't then you shit can it or keep it in the kit cause it does spin then at least you can use it in the kit the reason you are going to stock the bird and at least why i would is because to bird is crankin ,the bird is the family you are working with and sometimes you need the birds to be just a bit deeper to maintain the depth factor. If you keep stocking only 15' and not put up birds that are real deep soon you will wind up with kits of lesser depth(It's performance that counts)
bottom line John M. (HDRC)Loft So,Cal.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1014 posts
Feb 10, 2007
1:21 PM
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John. This is the type I like.It don;t look that big to me.Maybe 10 or 11 ounces? I find that this type will hold up to those 50 and 60 foot rolls better than the narrow type ones.At least in my family they do.I am working my way back to this type(for deeper rollers) after going the other way and losing my depth.David
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MILO
164 posts
Feb 10, 2007
1:54 PM
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I don't mind the bird much. But one notable point is the off-proportion of it. The head to body balance is off, and the length. But hey, it rolls, and you can always decide in the pen. I would think her to make henny cocks too.
c
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John
52 posts
Feb 10, 2007
3:15 PM
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I don't know enough about the bird to say I would stock it. The performance would play one roll in my decision.Your right some birds are to be kit birds forever. This site some times reminds me of what my great- grandmother use to say when I was a kid. " everybody thinks there baby is pretty, even the monkies in the zoo".I guess it just nature, human and animal.
One thing I do know if we all had the right anwsers and had this down to a science we would all be world cup or fall fly champions.I don't think anyone who's competive would say I want to come in last place or some where in the middle of the pack.That's not to take away from anyones flying record or birds. It just goes to say that none of us has all the anwsers. We all know that it takes a little luck as well as having great birds.
John Moore
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motherlodelofts
1435 posts
Feb 10, 2007
4:41 PM
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John , yes I have used birds that were nothing but stepping stones that I would never breed back to (if that is what you meant) , but only if there is a real need.
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 10, 2007 4:42 PM
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JMUrbon
227 posts
Feb 11, 2007
8:38 PM
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I have to agree with you John. I see no reason why you wouldnt give her a try if she has what you are looking for in the air. Short of her being a complete outcross which you say she isn't. What have you got to loose? You can always put her back in the kit if she doesnt pan out. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Hector Coya
123 posts
Feb 11, 2007
9:04 PM
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Hey John
yea thats an ugly bird,but you know what some of my best stock birds are ugly,if i only stocked birds that caught my eye in the loft i wouldnt have the roll i have.
one of my best kit birds for 2 years was so big and ugly i hated to stock it becouse it whent against everything i like in a roller,but it was my best spinner in everyones opinion. the bird most people begged me to sell them,so i finally put it away.
Hector Coya
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JMHD
119 posts
Feb 11, 2007
10:20 PM
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I guess that particular picture does give the hen an injustice here is a better picture of her a friend told me screw that don't post it you don't have to prove shit to nobody but i felt you can see her better. Joe Urbon i dont know if your saying she is crossed and i dont know if you know this family the way this hen is made the sire is a Kumro cock 136 Houghton and the dam is off of 923 Higgins line which is (Kumro) and half Norm Reed 516 / 991 so it's like telling you your birds look croossed even if you say they aren't 923 is 136 Houghton and 516 is also Houghton
991 was also Houghton the only Norm bird that wasn't Houghton was his 778 bird which went back to 631 and 638 Richard Jaconette bred 631 and 638. Bluesman your right certain body types won't hold up to the extreme velocity and depth good call. Birdman hope this pic is better,
Hector she's not that bad Lol check her out again but Hector i know what you mean. John M.(HDRC)Loft So,Cal.
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birdman
312 posts
Feb 11, 2007
10:50 PM
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That's a much better pic of that bird!
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JMUrbon
229 posts
Feb 12, 2007
3:43 PM
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John in no way am I saying that bird is crossed. I was just stating that unless she was not related to what you are working with at the time I see no reason not to give her a try in the Breeding loft. If she has the spin you say she does then let her breed. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Hector Coya
124 posts
Feb 12, 2007
3:44 PM
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John
Thats a better picture,i take it back she's not ugly.
Hector Coya
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JMHD
120 posts
Feb 12, 2007
6:51 PM
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10-4 Joe i just wasn't sure. Beaver is one of the top flyers and he doesn't part with birds often but when he let's someone get something you know he's sending the best he has to offer. John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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W@yne
260 posts
Feb 13, 2007
10:01 AM
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John.
The first picture was a real bad camera angle you took on that bird it did the bird no justice at all . The second picture you took made the bird look in better proportion and a lot better looking bird. I am real surprised you took a picture like that 1st one and posted it because you have posted some great pictures on this site shame on you john Lol.
Regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2007 10:03 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
253 posts
Feb 13, 2007
10:26 AM
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explain how a picture can make or break a bird? I am curious?!
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Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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JMHD
121 posts
Feb 13, 2007
11:23 AM
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Missouri it's clearly visable to see the second picture is better now as far make a bird what do you mean? W@yne i know first time for eveything Lol.
John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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Missouri-Flyer
254 posts
Feb 13, 2007
11:28 AM
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John,
as stated, what makes a bird a good bird or a bad bird by a picture? There are some that have flip flopped their remarks about "your" bird after you posted the 2nd pic. I was asking that if the bird looked like crap the first time, but not the 2nd, isnt it still the same crap? Not saying ur bird is crap, just posting to what others have said. I just find it hard to believe that a different pic of the same bird would change someones response...Weird!
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Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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JMHD
122 posts
Feb 13, 2007
12:00 PM
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Missouri if you look at the first pic it does make the hen look like the head is small i myself would not like the head on a bird to be that small but when you see the second pic you can tell that it's of normal size i can't speak for anyone else but if your looking at a bird your going to look at certain features of the bird. I know your not saying it looks like crap i didn't know what you meant
but what i have mentioned is the first thing noticeable.
John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1166 posts
Feb 13, 2007
1:21 PM
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The solution to those picture accuracy problems is to not use the wide angle mode of your camera's lens when taking the pictures. I know it is hard sometimes if your cage is too small, but wide angle lens greatly distort reality.
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MILO
166 posts
Feb 13, 2007
3:06 PM
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I wouldn't in a million years think that was the same bird...LOL LOL Excellent photo. Yes, I like her. Amazing how a snapshot can show something totally different one moment to the next!
c
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JMHD
123 posts
Feb 13, 2007
5:03 PM
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Brian I will take your word for it i know you have experience with cameras. Milo i know you were looking at the birds band no# Lol John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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Flyin Hawaiian
13 posts
Feb 17, 2007
3:13 PM
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Hey Johnny,
One things for sure you got the bird from Beaver Dayton and that speaks volumns in and of itself. The second photo you submitted is a better photo keep in mind guys that not all birds are photogenic either. If you have shorted yourself in a particular line or blood that you need to ressurect and you are left with a duck but this duck has some of the blood that you would like to put back in your birds. I wouldn't hesitate to use it if that was my intentions but would select a better pheno type representation from the offspring for future stock. Sometimes a guy has to use some birds that aren't his favorite in physical makeup to get where he wants to be in the future. I will say this the bird can flat out roll.
Ivan
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CSRA
1 post
Feb 19, 2007
7:48 AM
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Nice hen John you have been doing a good job keep up the good work your neigbor CSRA
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