Flyin Hawaiian
32 posts
Feb 23, 2007
6:18 PM
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Here's a picture of my foundation hen. She was a front line trigger bird with exceptional speed and frequency. She also has produced many present stock birds at the flyin hawaiians loft.
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Santandercol
805 posts
Feb 24, 2007
6:51 AM
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A fine looking specimen Ivan.I noticed you said you live in the Northwest of the US.What part if you don't mind me asking?
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Kelly
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Flyin Hawaiian
34 posts
Feb 24, 2007
7:15 AM
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Kelly,
I live in the Portland Metro area of Oregon about 12 miles west of Portland a city called Hillsboro which is about 60 miles from the Pacific Ocean. You missed a great convention here in July last year. Tons of fun and alot of great guys to B.S with.
Ivan
This Bib hen pictured is a stellar bird in the air and what style she covets words cannot come close to expressing it. Thanks for the compliments.
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W@yne
279 posts
Feb 24, 2007
2:00 PM
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Ivan.
That hen shows a real looker, Whats the background of that bird??
Also do you, JMHD , BMC ,CSRA ,go to the same camera photo school lol, Sure got some great looking birds and pictures
Regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Feb 24, 2007 2:17 PM
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Flyin Hawaiian
40 posts
Feb 24, 2007
2:19 PM
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Wayne,
This hen is down from my ole Bruce Cooper line of birds. Those who had the priviledge to meet Bruce at the convention this past summer can attest to you that he's responsible for many of the birds that are in circulation today. Some may be familiar with the Joe Houghton strain of birds and if so may not know that the bulk of his stock derived from the loft of Bruce cooper. Bruce was responsible for alot of Bill Pensoms visitations here in the Pacific N.W. Upon his death Bruce bought #3757 and when Ivan Brower past on he bought birds from Browers wife. Both these two gentlemen were and are extremely wealthy. Ivan brower gave a blank check to purchase birds from Bill Pensom. The portland area in the 40's and 50's had some of the more reknowned flyers of Birmingham rollers anywhere in the world. Names such as Joe Hein, Howard Mc Cully, Fred Taylor, Gus Litchenwald and George Dubois just to mention a few. It wasn't uncommon to have kits of birds within a 3 mile radius all flying at the same time never to mix. The background of my birds is directed towards the 3757 cock a dark T Checker. He has a brother cock which was a stellar bird # 3859 the same color. It is hard to match the 119 X 514 progeny for velocity. There you will get the vaporizing roll that has the ( ) and no wings showing. Thanks for asking.
Ivan
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JMHD
136 posts
Feb 24, 2007
4:02 PM
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Ivan i thought you might like to checkout this pedigree thst goes back to 3757 off 119 X 514 you can also see what my family goes back way of 1180 also goes back to 514.
John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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MILO
199 posts
Feb 24, 2007
6:26 PM
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I agree about the speed Ivan.
You have probably seen this. This is a hen that goes back to some of my fastest. I had her daughter. I still have some around. I have also added a pic of 3859 for those that may have not seen him or are unfamiliar with the line.
c
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3757
105 posts
Feb 24, 2007
9:05 PM
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All - Just to add to the history of Bruce's family - The other side of the birds are heavy with the broke wing hen blood down from Stan Plona and the famous JLS-23-1953 and 9 pair. This bloodline has produced some of the finest spinners ever. Bruce, to me, is one of the greatest roller breeders of all time. He is also a wonderful man and my mentor.
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:38 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1186 posts
Feb 24, 2007
9:33 PM
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Hey Todd, FYI: those Rubys you got from me go back to Pensom's 514 hen via her son 3757. Thought you might like to know.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Flyin Hawaiian
41 posts
Feb 25, 2007
5:44 AM
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Hey Laron,
How are you Braddah?? How's the breeding season coming along? Good to see you posting here. Give me a call when you have some extra time on your hands. Take care and thanks for explaining to the guys the other side of Bruces family and yes I agree Bruce is one of the best of the best.
Your Friend Ivan
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Flyin Hawaiian
42 posts
Feb 25, 2007
5:48 AM
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John and Milo,
Those are some tight pedigrees. The old blood is hard to beat especially if you can get it clean without hiccups LOL! Milo that thier hen you have or had is bred really tight. Can you show us some of the progeny from her? I personally would like to see some.
Your friend Ivan
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3757
106 posts
Feb 25, 2007
6:27 AM
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Ivan - Glad to see you here also. I hope all is well. The birds you are posting are great. I would like to add that Bruce's family is packed with speed and style and they do not fly high (out of sight) like most traditional Pensom's.
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:38 AM
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Velo99
944 posts
Feb 25, 2007
7:11 AM
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Hey Ivan,
whatcha call this color? Its reduced off a bald blu spd hen and a mealy red ck tick cock. I am thinking dun?
here ya go
I think its the same.
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V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2007 9:55 AM
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bman
232 posts
Feb 25, 2007
7:32 AM
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Hi Kenny,
I would like to see a side view but it looks silver(dilute blue). Which would make it a hen.I think,LOL.
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Ron
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bman
233 posts
Feb 25, 2007
7:43 AM
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Kenny does it look like this?
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Ron
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bman
234 posts
Feb 25, 2007
7:44 AM
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Ron
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MILO
200 posts
Feb 25, 2007
12:36 PM
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Hi Ivan.
Here is a good representation of that line. Both were good ones. I have since sent the Kind orange eye cock to Indiana. But His father, also pictured below, is still producing here. I think type-wise, they are very much like the original 3859 stuff. You can compare the last two pics in this page and you can see that. A little different from some of the new Sparks-based birds I am working with. Have a look.
c
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2007 12:41 PM
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3757
107 posts
Feb 25, 2007
2:16 PM
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Milo - Can you elaborate more on the "New Sparks based birds you are working with."
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:38 AM
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Flyin Hawaiian
49 posts
Feb 25, 2007
2:17 PM
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Milo,
Man you nailed it they are very similar in type and you have captivated it without loosing anything to deteriation. Often times when trying to clone we loose some of the cosmetics in pheno type. Most notably would be the deteriation of the head becoming more tumbler like this is what I have found in harsh inbreeding if the base stock is inferior it will show itself. I like the cock in the first pick he looks strong and expreses himself well. Have you used him on the new sparks stuff you currently have? Thanks again bro good stuff.
Ivan
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MILO
201 posts
Feb 25, 2007
3:19 PM
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Sure Dr. L.D.
I really don't know where to begin...LOL I don't want to give everyone a history lesson, but I will try to keep it simple. The new birds I have are from Ken Billings. They are really somewhat different from my old line. Kenny has basically refined them, or I should use the term "sculpted", into a unique distinct family of his own. The birds I have just posted are esentially very much like the original birds he began with, and to his credit, he has done an extraordinary job with them. One of his main hens (285) - Is a descendant of the same birds. I use this bird simply as an example, because many of my best at this point go back to her...Off of 20 X 152... 6336 X 14604 / 2267X2205. So, digressing, and to get to the point LOL: It is just another branch. 285 comes down in a way from 2266 and 2267, full brothers, and as many know are off NPA-74-1079, and off NBRC-70-8833, who was off 3859, and so on and sofourth...LOL. So, they are the same way back, but just taken in another direction... And with a sprinkle of sisterhen (272). In reality, it's pointless to try and draw a recent connection. It hurts my head to even try to go back...LOL The esteemed Hollywood cock is off a full bro/sis mating of the same (220X285) I am really sold on these birds, and will attach a couple pictures here. Now, I will end the post with a basic comment: I don't think there are very many families or breeders that have inbred to the DEGREE that Kenny has with similar results. Those results I would label as rich expressive birds, that role with speed and style, and can do it trigger precision in competition. Not every day...LOL But when they are on, I don't think there are many kits that can top them on their best day. There are no degenerative qualities in any of the lines I have gotten from him. None. Are they better than the old line I have? No, just different. Below are some examples. I've posted them before, but for comparison here they are.
c
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MILO
202 posts
Feb 25, 2007
3:36 PM
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Forgot to answer the question: No, I haven't crossed them in. They are a little too far in type for me to bridge the gap. Honestly, the hard part of honing these has been done. To try crossing them in the forseeable future, would steer me off course. Is it really a cross? LOL To some no, to me yes. Although, I have sent both mine and Kens over to Indiana, and from the pictures back, I really like what I see in terms of type. Below are a couple quickpics from e-mail. I have yet to hear any reports on their performance. I'll keep this group posted.
c
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3757
108 posts
Feb 25, 2007
3:42 PM
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Milo - The birds look great and thanks for the information. Herb and I are good freinds and I am very informed on what he is doing today. I have a small sub family that I acquired from him. As soon as I learn how to post a picture I will post a few also. I agree with you that the Pensom stock Bruce Cooper, Herb Sparkes and others have breathtaking speed and style that I like. This is not to say that there may be other families that have it also. What time frame do your birds come into the roll? My Bruce Cooper birds are very early 4-6 months. The birds I have from Herb are 6-9 months.
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:39 AM
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MILO
204 posts
Feb 25, 2007
3:56 PM
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They come in about (3-5) months. I fly them twice a day if possible.
c
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2007 3:57 PM
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JMHD
137 posts
Feb 25, 2007
4:29 PM
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Hey Milo some nice looking birds and excellent lines
John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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3757
109 posts
Feb 25, 2007
4:45 PM
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Milo - I am glad that you and Kenny have been able to maintain a strong family without crossing. So many people want to cross the birds for no reason whatsoever. If they do not need to be out crossed why do it. Now, if you have particular reasons to outcross it is different.
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MILO
206 posts
Feb 25, 2007
5:03 PM
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Thanks for the compliments.
c
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