motherlodelofts
1495 posts
Mar 01, 2007
10:50 AM
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Six ?
Good to see you here Gregg
Scott
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Frankie
124 posts
Mar 01, 2007
11:53 AM
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hey Gregg glad to see you here.
Frankie
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1034 posts
Mar 01, 2007
11:59 AM
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Can't wait to hear them.LOL David
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Gregg
14 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:05 PM
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Tony,
My name is Gregg Sale. We have posted before to each other reference my inability to post. While that has not been resolved I still check the site ocassionally just to see what the current topic or argument concerns.
Point blank, I am a color breeder in that I do foster and breed for some/many colors in the Birmingham Roller with a vengenance for velocity and performance. I do not cross breed as many claim but try to maintain and perfect what is currently there, irrespective of the quality. This may put me at cross purposes with everybody, the purist and the color nut combined.
Yet I feel impinged in that you are now limiting or censoring the site due to this subject. Sorry, I think that you are making a big mistake and should keep it wide open. This is a totally free country and totally free speech is what made it so. Stopping anyone from blasting me because I raise rollers with pretty paint jobs only limits the experiences of the newcomers. I have always maintained that one needs a hard head and a thick skin. That is the way it should remain.
Scott and Kenny will pounce on me every chance they get. That should be their right. It should also be my right to get into their face when I think they are totally out of line. Something that both will tell you has happened in the past.
I am opposed to your starting a new forum. I think this one does very well and should be maintained as the only forum. What are you going to do, start another Velrol or Performance group that will have little or no participation compared to what you have here. If Bob or any one else can't take the heat, then they should stay out of the kitchen.
I realize that you have a PR problem in that you are running a business, but somewhere you have to quit worrying about everybody's feelings. Yes, you are going to loose a few of the thin skinned ones, but you're a hell of a lot better off in the long run by allowing an open and honest forum. You have a truly popular site here that I feel is appreciated by the vast majority irregardless of their views. And I damn well feel that anyone who doesn't appreciate this site is totally near sighted. If you start peicemealing same, you will be the ultimate loser.
I am advising you not to start another site. Stay with this one and liberalize your rules to the extent that the only taboos are personal and vindictive attacks. Everything else should be fair game.
Gregg Sale.
P.S. Tony, thanks for the tips reference posting on your list. I included my earlier post to you as I feel it is valid. I still disagree with you about changing the site. I appreciate the honesty. I have no qualms about telling it the way it is. I think there are more out there that feel the same way as I versus the other side of the coin.
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bman
240 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:12 PM
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Greg,
Welcome
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Ron
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Gregg
16 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:19 PM
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Scott, Frankie, David, Ronnie,
Thanks for the welcome. Good to be back on this list. I still have some puter problems but the ones with this list were finally resolved with some help from Tony.
Would love to hear everyone's comments on the above subject. I know we all loath the personal attacks but the reality to me is that I would rather have someone get honest in my face than playing sweets__t behind my back. Of course every now and then we have to have some big guy take Scott out behind the woodshed. Smile Scott.
Gregg.
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Flyin Hawaiian
56 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:22 PM
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Hey Gregg,
Welcome to the list we look forward to your strong contributions.
Ivan
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1035 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:25 PM
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Hey Gregg.Everyone on here knows I am a color breeder.I just got to watch what I say.LOL.Now that you are here maybe we can get some good genetic topics going about some of our color projects and how well they are rolling.LOL. David
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Gregg
17 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:28 PM
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Thanks Ivan,
Can't wait to get my butt out and start flying some birds. You airborne yet or did you keep flying in the midst of the onslaught.
Gregg.
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Missouri-Flyer
300 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:35 PM
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Welcome Greg,
Where are ya from, and what family are you working with to try and get color and roll at the same time?..Jerry
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Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Gregg
18 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:43 PM
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David,
I'm playing hookie today so don't expect to see me posting here on a regular basis. Also don't expect me to agree with everything about color breeding. I for one know that to color breed and still maintain performance is one difficult task and requires a lot of work and an awful lot of culling. Many of the concerns that you get thrown at you from some of the guys are legitimate. If you pick one or two genetic/colors and concentrate on them, it relatively easy to upgrade and produce a nice family of birds that are consistent. Been there, done that. Playing with the numbers of factors that I am playing with right now has a lot to do with help from a few friends who have also been into the process for years on a few particular genes. My concentration is based on a small number of genes right now, one of which I saw on another section, is one of Scott's favorites: Pencil. But I have the recessive opal working and the bronzes. I even hit up one of the "purists" for a cross to work in. I have no pride. My main concern right now is getting the bronzes back to were I had them pre 2002. It has been an uphill battle but a rewarding one.
Now, I will also tell you one other thing. Complex gene crossing onto perfomance rollers is a life time committment and requires time, space and money. I have never seen it done successfully and I have watched many try.
Now I'll sit back and let you talk.
Gregg.
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Steve_uk
92 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:43 PM
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Greg you might just find your posts drag on.
Welcome steve....
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Gregg
19 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:46 PM
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Jerry,
They are mine. I've had them long enough that I can't blame anyone else for them.
Steve,
And your point is? If you want simple answers then don't feel obligated to read mine. Don't really want to upset you, but that is the way it is.
Gregg.
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Steve_uk
94 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:50 PM
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Colour breeding usually results in long winded threads thats my point punk!
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Gregg
20 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:55 PM
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Steve,
You lose, you lost your cool.
Let me know when you can post an argument and not just call names.
Gregg.
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Flyin Hawaiian
58 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:57 PM
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Gregg,
My game plan is let everyone else fly like Ricky boy and those guys in Montana and across the nation I encourage them too. You heard some of the horrors stories already about thier A teams getting eatin alive LOL! I'm still holding out like a poker game knowing when to hold and fold LOL! Last year I held them in and decided to break them out 1st of march only to see my super little blue checker W/F 3 year old get taking by a coop when she dropped from the kit from the lockdown and being out of shape. I want to wait a little longer this year perhaps the end of this month or the 1st of next month shoud be about right. Those guys that breed early think they have an advantage but I have been guilty of doing much of the same over the years only to find out when I look back on my records I see that I loose 25% of my youngster to preds and wonder why I do it not to mention the double moult that takes place on the early bred young. February 14th was a day set aside every year to pair up the birds LOL! First round always seem to be the better rounds and guys don't understand why that is. Reason you have anticipated the round and expect to see some results from your endeavors and you put in more QUALITY time with those first rounders than you do with any of the other rounds. I'm rambling but in short NO not yet anyway.
Ivan
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Steve_uk
95 posts
Mar 01, 2007
12:58 PM
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Another clown on the scene.
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Frankie
126 posts
Mar 01, 2007
1:05 PM
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So Gregg do you feel at home yet lol You know there is more to come but i know you can take it so getir done frankie
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Gregg
21 posts
Mar 01, 2007
1:10 PM
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Ivan,
I hear you. Bob was planning on putting his together this weekend if the weather held. I have had the same experience with the preds taking or spooking the first round early on. I've got everything ready to go but am still holding off both on the breeding and the flying. I have to get my butt going on the flying but don't want to start too early. Saw a few blackbirds back in the trees today, so it won't be long. Need some young songbirds fledging to keep the preds fed up and leaving me alone.
I know if this is going to be the routine from now on then I will have to be raising less birds. But I have a young man that wants some birds. Wish I had heard from him sooner as he could have gotten the early kit. If the surgery becomes necessary, he may get some sooner than he thought.
Gregg.
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Missouri-Flyer
301 posts
Mar 01, 2007
1:12 PM
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Greg,
what region do you fly in?..Jerry
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Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Ballrollers
686 posts
Mar 01, 2007
2:16 PM
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Gregg,
Well just kick the door down and come on in, pardner! I see some of the boys have welcomed you in usual good taste! LOL! I look forward to your perspectives, my friend. We'll miss you as the World Cup rolls around. Thanks again for the awesome job you did judging our region last year! Ken Easley is going to do the honors for us this year. I hope Virginia is weathering the winter better than you have been (last I heard.)
Ivan,
I noticed the same thing for the past two years. My best birds have come from the first round or two. Seems too consistantly reported to just be coincidence, but maybe that's all it is. After all, Pensom said the best birds are raised after May.....
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2007 2:41 PM
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nicksiders
1432 posts
Mar 01, 2007
2:57 PM
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Welcome Gregg
I am one who strongly feels color breeding is simply wrong and should be discouraged. I also feel that an admitted color breeder who also swears he is a performance breeder is just kidding himself. Be one or the other.
I also believe that those same people who admit that they do "both" are those who just go with the flow because it is easy.
I also believe that you are entitled to your own beliefs about this hobby and the direction it should take and you have a right to converse about them on this site and forum.
Again, welcome Gregg and I mean that sincerely.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Gregg
22 posts
Mar 01, 2007
3:19 PM
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Thanks Cliff, it's gonna be fun once in a while.
Jerry,
O.K., I'm from Illinois and my original birds are from the old Rottenbacher lines through Bob Munson via Joe Houghton and Frank Picolet. And as I have said before, they are all mine.
Nick,
A refreshing breath of air. Someone who can say what he believes with out the condescending B.S. Playing with the colors is not easy. It is like setting oneself up with additional hurdles. Most who have been around know that many of the guy in the Midwest suffered some severe loses to salmonella from 2000 thru 2002. I lost 90 percent of my breeders. Then I had some serious neighbor problems with an even more insidious onslaught from the preds. So it is taking me a while to get back because I am doing the hard way through some of my color stock and with a bit of help from a few friends.
What I won't do is sit here and tell everyone how easy it is to breed for performance and color at the same time. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I don't expect special treatment one way or the other. I will be the first to advise newbies to find a good family of birds and learn all there is about the breed. After they have some experience if they wish to try some colors, fine. But I will also tell them they have about twenty years of learning to do if they want to proceed with the colors. It isn't easy. But it is rewarding.
Gregg.
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Velo99
955 posts
Mar 01, 2007
3:40 PM
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Hey Gregg,
Your birds,your feed bro. I personally breed to a performance standard. I get all the colors I want from the breeders I have. Welcome aboard!
kh
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V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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MILO
220 posts
Mar 01, 2007
3:42 PM
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Interesting introduction Gregg...LOL Although I am more interested in the pigeon man, than the agendas, I will welcome you aboard. I look forward to some spirited threads.
c
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Gregg
23 posts
Mar 01, 2007
4:42 PM
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Velo99,
Hi Kenny,
Been reading some recent posts. I can appreciate most of what you said except for the part about loving Cliff.LOL. Man, you got the pigeon bug bad. I'm one up on you though, as my wife is also my loft manager and takes care of my birds when I am gone. Even sometimes when I'm home. Great lady.
Milo,
Interesting take. I sit back and watch the interactions many times on list such as this one. You can learn a lot about people just reading what they post. Jim Petersen has always maintained that the friends made in the hobby are more important than the birds themselves. In many regards that is true.
Gregg.
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RO
37 posts
Mar 01, 2007
7:17 PM
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Welcome Gregg,,I see you have some fight in you ,,your gonna need it.lol
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classicpony
121 posts
Mar 01, 2007
7:30 PM
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Greg,
Welcome aboard on the B.R. ship. We have set sail on the Roller Sea. You will tour of some of the best ideas for any roller problems.
Again Welcome Aboard
Jim
@thebirdhouse
Last Edited by on Mar 05, 2007 5:09 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1204 posts
Mar 01, 2007
9:03 PM
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Hey Gregg, I am glad you were able to work out logging in properly. Please read the posting policy, I already removed an entire thread today in an attempt to prevent another war:
Posting Policy
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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trevsta65
74 posts
Mar 02, 2007
1:13 AM
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well tony some people just like stirring up shit they have nothing better to .they go through life that way hiding behind there own self importance. they talk that much crap they start to beleive it themselves
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Velo99
958 posts
Mar 02, 2007
4:51 AM
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Guys,
I put Greg in the same category as Strait. He breeds for color but at the same time he does compete and score pretty well. He stands his postion and has the scores to prove it is viable. I have a lot of respect for Dave and some of his theories. He has a lot of pigeon knowledge and is an asset to the sport. Just kind of the "mad scientist" of rollers.
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V99
Good spinners don`t always
make good breeders.
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1036 posts
Mar 02, 2007
5:21 AM
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Kenny.Thanks for the kind words but I am nothing compared to Gregg.He has by far a lot more knowledge in genetics than I do.He has a lot to offer this forum if everyone just picks his brain and not look at Color.
Like Gregg said it is not easy and you have to be prepared to cull anything that dosn't perform.No matter how pretty they are.
I do like to compete but not because the birds are all that good but to meet such great fellow fanciers.If they stop showing up on fly day I will quit Comps in a hurry.LOL.
But I compete every time I put a kit up in the air.Every fly I do(old birds)it is as if it were Comp day.Some days I smile and some days I have to keep from dropping the hammer on some.David
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tapp
202 posts
Mar 02, 2007
8:54 AM
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Hi Gregg, Glad to have you here! Kim Tappenden
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Tapp
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Gregg
25 posts
Mar 02, 2007
10:14 AM
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Kenny, David,
What did I have to do to deserve them words of praise, or should I say what do I have to do? LOL. Thank you but please don't say it too often or it will go to my head.
David is in deep with the genetics and understands that it is a continuous learning curve. The more you know the more you realize how little you know. That is true reference the genetics side of this hobby and is equally true on the performance side of it.
Beware anyone who claims to know it all. I know many of the participants on this list either directly or indirectly and there is a huge wealth of information available here. And I will add a caveat that many of you should heed: just because you don't like one person's position, whether for or against, don't let that fact stop you from learning from that person. A few that have been referred to as trouble makers on this list also happen to be great rollermen who can provide positive guidance. I know, I've seen them do it in the past and expect it from them again in the future. That doesn't mean we agree on everything, that would be a cold day in hades. But don't let anything slant your views to the point of ending up with tunnel vision.
Gregg.
Kim,
Thanks for the welcome. If I missed anyone, my apologies.
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W@yne
284 posts
Mar 02, 2007
10:59 AM
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Welcome Greg to the site,
Seems you know your stuff regarding the color side of things, Great to have you on board.
Although i am not a color breeder nor have any interest down that side of the road i got to admire your honesty saying you are a color breeder from the start full stop. I cant see why we all cant contribute to Tony's site together,
Ok we all have our differences regarding certain things on here but at the end of the day we all got 1 common interest and that's flying these great acrobats in the sky.
Once again welcome Greg.
Regards
W@yne uk
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C.J.
931 posts
Mar 02, 2007
11:17 AM
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Welcome Gregg.
Always good to see new blood.
C.J.
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Gregg
29 posts
Mar 02, 2007
4:49 PM
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C.J., Wayne,
Thanks for the welcome.
Wayne, you said a mouthful.
Gregg.
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Mongrel Lofts
274 posts
Mar 02, 2007
8:15 PM
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OK Gregg,
Welcome to a real roller list where men can talk about rollers and have opinions.. I know your short on them!! LOL Here is a qoute from your first post that would surely confuse a newbie..{{ I do not cross breed as many claim but try to maintain and perfect what is currently there, irrespective of the quality. }} Who says you cross breeds? The question I would ask is this, where did Pencil come from? Was pencil a factor in the birmingham roller, or was it crossed in from another breed here in the USA?
You know, if a ford used all toyota parts to build there car and they new it. Would the parts not still be toyota even though they were sold under the ford name?? LOL KGB
Welcome to the list buddy, Glad you made it over..
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Santandercol
824 posts
Mar 02, 2007
9:35 PM
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Hey Gregg,
We're all here for ya buddy.Welcome and enjoy.
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Kelly
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Gregg
31 posts
Mar 03, 2007
6:46 AM
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Kenny,
Hey bud. Good to see you posting.
In answer to your post. The pencil came from the original Turner blood. I know the Maggie's in England are pencils, that is an undisputable fact. Where they came from in the Turner family, you guess is as good as mine. Are they well bred roller type for conformation, size, etc? Yes. Are they pure roller going back for thirty generations? Probably not. I've only made on mating with them and have produced a little blue bar with some bronzing that is a short but nice spinner. Is she up to your expectations depth wise? No, but she sure does have the velocity. I only raised four of them, lost one settling and the other two at my accipiter feeding station. The settling lose was also due to the accipiters.
I have managed to put together a few good birds over the past couple of years and think that things are starting to look up. Will probably look silly in this years WC, but we are going to give it a shot. Hopefully I will get a few bred up this year to get respectable.
Gregg.
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