CooCoo
71 posts
Mar 15, 2007
5:06 AM
|
I was into raising beagles for 30 years and i see on this forum some of the problems with inbreeding that i also experienced. I hear a lot of problems with inbreeding here......causing mutations etc..as in hounds it brings out your best qualities and also doubles up on your worst ones.
Do you guys ever outcross occasionally to get in some new blood?............. Trust me if it is the same as in hounds it would help you.
Thanks
Dave
|
maxspin
73 posts
Mar 15, 2007
11:24 AM
|
Dave,
With rollers we are breeding what amounts to a fault. Then we are trying to control the fault. To get the best results you want to have all your birds as similar to each other as you can get them. By doing this you can bring out their best performance by altering feed, rest etc. Outcrossing will bring in a lot of variables, and you will have more trouble getting your kit to perform together.
Keith Maxwell
|
Shaun
456 posts
Mar 15, 2007
12:29 PM
|
Established roller families, going back many generations, will have been through a linebreeding/inbreeding process. The inevitable freaks of nature popping up along the way, will have been duly discarded, so as to ultimately produce a family of birds which can be bred closely without much mishap - perhaps the odd recessive gene popping up here and there.
So, anyone mating birds closely, who ends up with rollers bearing two heads and three legs, is probably working with a family which hasn't yet been through the 'oh, shit... look at this beast' process.
As for outcrosses, there have been some excellent discussions here on the subject. To the uninitiated, it can seem like the ideal solution to a family of rollers which is going a bit flat, or which has an unhappy mix of good and bad traits. But, to the more experienced, alarm bells always ring when the subject of outcrossing is raised. It's not something to dive into on a whim.
Shaun
|
Santandercol
868 posts
Mar 15, 2007
9:14 PM
|
I have Neibles birds breeding and one pair with a Neible cock and the hen is Neible with Barrett blood crossed in.The young they produced last year came into the roll much sooner than the pure Neible birds and are still way ahead of most of the Neibles.Kind of confirms what you are saying Keith and Shaun.----------
Kelly
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2007 9:14 PM
|
motherlodelofts
1570 posts
Mar 15, 2007
9:49 PM
|
If you feel a need to out cross, chances are you are down breeding the outcross.
Most good breeders carry a couple of lines that are linebred to each other, there should be no reason to go outside of the loft.
Scott
|
nicksiders
1474 posts
Mar 15, 2007
10:17 PM
|
Scott is right. I got a wild hair in my butt and cluttered up my gene pool and now I am paying for it. Having to clean up your own mistakes is very discouraging.
By good selective breeding you can get all the so called vigor you want from your own family. Don't do like I did and start thinking out side of my own loft.
Very disheartning.
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
CooCoo
72 posts
Mar 16, 2007
6:12 AM
|
Very interesting points made by all of you.
Thank You
Dave
|
Santandercol
869 posts
Mar 16, 2007
6:13 AM
|
Scott and Nick,
Are you saying the outcross I have in my loft with this Barrett blood is probably not a good idea to continue?Being a newbie to rollers last year,it's a treat to have some birds that roll early on especially seeing how the preds take such a toll.My idea is to breed enough of these birds with 1/4 Barrett blood in them to be able to fly a complete kit of them and fly the pure Neible ones separately.What is your opinion on this plan?I don't intend at this time to do any more messing with this bloodline,but just to let that one pair breed and see what a kit of their young will turn out like.
I sure do appreciate and value your input on this.
Kel.
|
motherlodelofts
1571 posts
Mar 16, 2007
7:14 AM
|
Kelly, whenever such a move is made, make sure that you don't paint yourself into a corner.
Kelly ,who exactly did you get birds from up there ?
was it John Weins?
Scott
|
Santandercol
872 posts
Mar 16, 2007
7:29 AM
|
Scott,
I have met John but I got my first birds from Doug Mitchell who gave me the 1/2 Barrett hen,Neible cock and another pair of Neible birds.Al Hunt gave me more than 20 young Neible birds and one pair of breeders I'm pumping now.I'm still breeding lots of pure Neible birds so won't be stuck with only the outcross birds which is what I guess you mean by painting myself into a corner.
By the way,The BOPs have devastated John's kitbirds over the winter so he won't be entering the WC this spring.He's judging the prelims tho.
----------
Kelly
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2007 7:40 AM
|