rollerman132
88 posts
Mar 20, 2007
8:24 PM
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Pensom stated in his book that there were only two types of rollers that are of any value to the breeder, the champion and the one that only tumbles maybe once or twice or not at all. He goes on to state that everything in between these types of rollers are faulty and should not be used as breeders. What’s your view on this statement?
only 985 more posts,all most there Tony.lol
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Steve_uk
114 posts
Mar 21, 2007
12:02 AM
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In my opinion i think we need to move on from pensom.
Steve
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nicksiders
1486 posts
Mar 21, 2007
12:51 AM
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Move on to who or what?
Everything that I read or hear seems to only be a summation or a slight modification to what Pensom has aleady said or wrote. Until someone else pioneers a new direction with the Birmingham Roller I am going to keep his information handy.
Just my opinion, but I reserve the right to change my mind(LOL)
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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3757
127 posts
Mar 21, 2007
6:23 AM
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Rollerman - Please write out the quote that you are speaking of for clarification. Also, remember that Bill said things at certain time periods of his life that changed as he got older and wiser as most, or should I say some, humans do. What Steve in the UK is saying is that if we are still stuck and do not build from the past we are the most miserable. Can you imagine driving a model T to work every day? We are more educated on genetics and lots of other aspects of the hobby than our founding fathers and we should be in a progressive state.
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:47 AM
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rollerman132
89 posts
Mar 21, 2007
9:06 AM
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This quote comes from the Birmingham Roller Pigeon by Pensom and Others (page 14).
In my opinion only two kinds of bird can be of any value to a breeder of true Birmingham Roller: the champion and the one that tumbles no more then once or twice or perhaps not at all. Birds whose capabilities as rollers and performers come between these two are, in my opinion, faulty and should not be used in the breeding loft.
It may be asked “how if the non-performer eventually proves a waster?” The answer lies
In the pedigree, type, and habits of the bird.
What I get out of this statement, is that type in Pensoms view was more important then performance.
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Missouri-Flyer
392 posts
Mar 21, 2007
9:13 AM
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Pensom quotes:
First of all, we have to be able to recognize the champion Birmingham Roller. Such a pigeon is one of small dimensions, six to eight ounces in weight when in proper flying condition; round of body, which is not deep or shallow; not too pronounced in chest, and rather long cast; nicely refined in head shape, which may well vary in contour between long, curved, or flat; pinched in face. There is generally a space between the end of the keel bone and the vent bones. They are short of leg and are to be found both clean and muffed legged. The most important feature is the eye, which should be bright and expressive of high intelligence and character. The eye can be of any color: pearl, yellow, orange, bull or brown and multicolored.
When aerial performance, both collectively and individually, is of no primary importance, the art of mating becomes of little or no concern. This appears to be the most popular category for fanciers: to exercise their skill in producing birds to certain physical and colorful standards, at the same time maintaining a decent standard of performance.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1274 posts
Mar 21, 2007
10:01 AM
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How many people have Champions they can breed from?
The quote is mute and dead and serves no genuine purpose.
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Missouri-Flyer
393 posts
Mar 21, 2007
10:24 AM
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I agree Brian,
BUT,...Was posting a comment that Pensom stated to help state that Pensom was "probably" above all at the time, and may be to this day..His tricks of the trade were just that, tricks and knowledge of his time..If he were here today, with the advanced knowledge that some have today, he would probably see the light in a different shade..
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1276 posts
Mar 21, 2007
11:28 AM
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Jerry, I was referencing the original post.
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MILO
257 posts
Mar 21, 2007
5:37 PM
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You know, some days I am just sick and tired of hearing about Pensom, regardless of my respect for the man. Here is one for you guys:
If Pensom was the spokesman of the time (his time), and encompassed all that a roller man could possibly know (at the time), who would be the top man today? Is there anyone that comes to mind? It seems Pensom is so untouchable to some, that we forget there are many breeders today that are worthy of comparison. Can we take a few mimnutes for some contemporary kudos? LOL Don't be shy. Shoot out some names.
c
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nicksiders
1487 posts
Mar 21, 2007
7:07 PM
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It will probably boil down to the individual level. The person who has helped me directly the most is Kenny Billings. He probably doesn't even know it because it came from a few posts he made in this forum. He has the ability to cut through to the chase. Another has been Brian McCormick who has a deep bank of information about almost everything about the birds we love. Scott Campbell keeps me grounded and makes me think before I open my mouth because he will not hesitate to bring his rath if he sences you are full of shit. Joe Urbon can smell a rat or bullshit from a long way off and he can bring some order to my thought processes because of this ability. I like listening or reading Paul Fullerton's posts; he makes me take another step or approach and re-enstills my enthusiasm. My mentor since I was a kid is Bob Hord who has always been straight with me no matter how far-out I get. The list goes on; the many people who I call friends (there are many in this forum).
The best book I have read lately was "Winners With Spinners" by Dexter.
I guess what I have stated here there are many who have influenced me and continue to be a resource, but few have put thier knowledge on the printed page. As a result I will keep William Pensom's writings close buy.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MILO
258 posts
Mar 21, 2007
7:17 PM
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Those are great observations, and I agree with your selections. All of those guys have the experience, and a handlers eye. Keep in mind that they have put their thoughts to paper in a "cyberspace" sort of way, through postings such as the one this site provides. Perhaps Tony can put some of the more powerful threads in some sort of publication, or compilation with the consent of the site contributors. I don't know about you guys, but there is a lot provided here that the recycled material of the bulletins haven't covered. They are great for the new fanciers that haven't read them, but it can get a little stale for some of the older guys. Food for thought. Any other names that you guys would like to mention?
c
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birdman
318 posts
Mar 21, 2007
8:07 PM
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I don't think that there can be only one (1) Top Dog today. There is more like a pack of dogs! LOL
In Pensom's time he was the Top Dog because it was his game and that game was created in his own backyard, in the Black Country. If your father, grandfather, and half of your neighbors were all breeding and flying rollers, you would most likely know a thing or two about rollers! LOL
The names already mentioned are definitely in the pack.
Russ
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2007 8:14 PM
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George Ruiz
213 posts
Mar 21, 2007
8:20 PM
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hey Russ I still gotta sit on the porch .
it will be a while before I can run with the Pack of big dogs
George
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birdman
319 posts
Mar 21, 2007
8:32 PM
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Hey George, at least you're on the porch. LOL
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nicksiders
1492 posts
Mar 22, 2007
10:56 AM
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George and Russ......I think both of you have jumped off the porch because I can hear ya barking(LOL)
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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birdman
320 posts
Mar 22, 2007
11:39 AM
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Hey Nick, no barking here. Flea scratching is more like it. LOL
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centralvalleylofts
68 posts
Mar 22, 2007
6:31 PM
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as for the top dog today. there are many today that would and could challenge pensom today.dont get me wrong. i like the guys mentioned already but this guys are also among the top weather some agree with it or not respectect by many in the west and east coast.jerry higgins-tim decker-rick mee-don oulelette-jay starley-clay hoyle-heine bijker-joe emberton-joe bob stucka,and my mentors scott cambell,and jack myers. thou there are many who have not been mentioned in this post pensom would have his hands full. and some may be color breeders.
and these men are the ones that could hold their own today.
also the countless many that are heroes in their own towns and cities around the country who started the many we now look up to just because their numbers dont show it they are and have been the start to many great flyers today. so how can we put a finger on this one. because i know that many will and have disagreed with this post.due to the fact that thier are more informed people today than in pensoms time because of the abundance of information today.
just take a look at the countless topics in this list and it would take you days or weeks to read.but it would take a solo person like pensom a coulple life times to expirement every single one and disprove them. so thanks to the many who have placed your words and comments so that others can and have learned from them.also thank you tony for this site and your efforts in accepting this challenge too.
just my two cents steve.
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2007 6:41 PM
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W@yne
321 posts
Mar 22, 2007
11:10 PM
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Don't forget the rollermen in the uk guys also. Some great flyers over in uk that have put mega contribution to this hobby. Just my 2 cents as you guys say.
regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2007 11:13 PM
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nicksiders
1494 posts
Mar 23, 2007
12:01 AM
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steve,
Other than Scott Campbell I have had very little contact with any of those that you have listed nor have I read anything they have published. I understand that they are the superstars of late, but I cannot claim them as a source for any information I can glean to improve my lot in the hobby.
There are champions and there are great coaches. Not all great coaches are champions; not all champions are great coaches.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Mar 23, 2007 12:05 AM
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Velo99
1002 posts
Mar 23, 2007
1:27 PM
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Wayne,
Dave Mosely comes in the chat room quite frequently. Sid and I have picked his brain a time or two.
Ya gotta tag team ol Dave. Takes two just to keep up with him. He is definitely a wealth of knowledge.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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