CSRA
65 posts
Mar 26, 2007
3:38 PM
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At what age do you start breeding out a bird?
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nicksiders
1504 posts
Mar 26, 2007
5:54 PM
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Two years if they prove themselves fit or worthy for the breeding loft.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Mar 26, 2007 5:54 PM
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MILO
263 posts
Mar 26, 2007
7:16 PM
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I'm not sure I understand the question? When is the earliest a bird can breed? OR, when would a roller breeder choose to begin breeding a bird? Having read some of your other posts, I think I know where you are going with this. To keep it simple, if you want to have good rollers, you have to pick good ones from the air. It takes at least 6 months to identify birds coming into the roll in most families. I wouldn't make it a habit of stocking birds you havent flown out.... You wrote:
"Sal my birds are made up off 7-9 birds proven producers i stock guite a few the past 4 years i would say 90% of my stock have not flown have been producing super rollers and spinners out the birds unflown they all have the type i like in a bird i would like to fly more but the predator will not let that happen so i have to save what i can i started with good stock so they produce what they are understand this if the type ain't right i will fly it until whatever Type is my key to success but after all that you know what i have lol"
If you ask me, this is a recipe for disaster...or a major disappointment. Fly them out. You will wind up culling a lot less in the future, or not having to start from scratch in a few years. I understand the predators make it tough, but you can't let them ruin your breeding program. You have to be honest with yourself. If you stock birds that fall apart after their 2nd year of flying, how would you know if you stock them before that? If the predator problem suddenly vanished, you would wind up with stock that produces birds that couldn't hold it together, and it would be very clear. Just the way I see it. A question we should probably ask this group is what is the longest you would or have flown out a bird before stocking it. The progeny off those are worth their weight in gold. Early stocked birds are a longshot, and even if some do pan out, it is mere luck.
c
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CSRA
69 posts
Mar 26, 2007
7:36 PM
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well milo i understand where you are coming from thats a good point of view i as for as the question i ask it the way i wanted to just to see whats out there i wish i could fly birds for a year before i go on where do you live?
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MILO
265 posts
Mar 26, 2007
7:48 PM
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I live in Monterey California. It's close to Santa Cruz. I live right below a National Forest. LOL The peregrine problem is so bad it would bring you to tears. I refuse to move, so I have to deal with it. I have lost as many as 65 birds in one fly season to the Peregrines...so I know how difficult it can be... BUT, it can be done. Hang in there.
c
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CSRA
70 posts
Mar 26, 2007
8:58 PM
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ok u feel me will you be flying in the world Cup
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CSRA
71 posts
Mar 26, 2007
9:00 PM
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how many birds you breed in one year Milo?
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CSRA
73 posts
Mar 26, 2007
9:06 PM
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So you fly may 20th ok i will be checking in on you
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MILO
266 posts
Mar 26, 2007
11:20 PM
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I breed 100 birds a year on average. Ya, that's when I fly.
c
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CSRA
77 posts
Mar 26, 2007
11:30 PM
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what family you are working with?
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longarm
95 posts
Mar 27, 2007
1:23 PM
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I prefer to wait untill a bird has been moved into my old bird kits and flown for two years so ideally a bird wont get breed untill it has been proven and is three years old. I have been guilty of moveing a bird intot he breeding loft based on its first years performance if it is a bird I cant replace and has shown the development curve I want to see. I have regreted keeping birds in the kit a few times but in the long run it pays off. As I learned my family I was able to pick birds from the young birds that were going to make the breeder loft but I still am unsure enough to continue flying them out. c.j.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1287 posts
Mar 27, 2007
1:48 PM
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I "usually" don't park a bird for trial breeding until it is around 12-18 months old. There have been a few exceptions, but for the most part they don't get plucked out until their second season of flying.
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Velo99
1007 posts
Mar 27, 2007
4:03 PM
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Brian,
Eventually I will get to the point where I can choose inthe second year. This is my third season so I pick em as I can for another year or two at the most. I do draw the line at 12 months.
No breeders less than 12 months. Most are 14-18 months when I pulled them from the kits. I have one in an active breeding role and two in the foster pen,on deck so to speak.
The hen in the active role is an 05 and was a pretty good flyer when I pulled her at 20 months.
yits
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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motherlodelofts
1646 posts
Mar 27, 2007
4:10 PM
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many time's I'll run them through a trial run of knocking a couple of rounds and then putting them back out , after W/C I have one cock and a couple of hens that I will use in the breeding loft out of the A team , then back out they'll go for Fall fly , this I have found is the best of both worlds.
Scott
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CSRA
78 posts
Mar 27, 2007
4:49 PM
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you guys all have similar methods 18 to 24 months i have been flying my birds about 2-3 years have been getting great results out of my unflown stock i have been pulling 1-2 birds a year out of the air this year i hope to pull more until i get to the point of my stock being air tested but i tell u this there are birds i have that have not flown and can produce just as good and better than stock that have been flown i want to know if there is anyone out there that has an unflown stock bird that can bring it!
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Velo99
1009 posts
Mar 28, 2007
5:05 PM
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I didn`t want to start a thread just for this.
I fed this morning and found one of my foster hens not sitting eggs that were due to hatch tomorrow. I felt them and they were cold to the touch. Shit one pair down the tubes. I stood there and thought for a minute while my dog nudged my leg." Hey! Hey! Are those eggs for me?" I thought about the pair who had the infertile eggs I had stuck an egg under. Worst that can happen is nothing. I got home from work went out and check on them.
THEY ARE PIPPING!!
Both eggs! If the hen has some milk, everyting will be arighy.
She was due yesterday with the infertile eggs. How sweet is that?
I was having a pretty shitty day til I got home. Got new chick survivors and my girls gave me a big old hug when I walked thru the door.
yits
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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CSRA
86 posts
Mar 28, 2007
6:16 PM
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thats good it work out for you thats why i keep tight records on when pairs lay in case i have to do some egg swapping and thats a lesson for all of us right on sir
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Velo99
1010 posts
Mar 28, 2007
7:10 PM
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I use a pencil.
Write the pair number and lay date on the egg.
too easy.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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wishiwon2
7 posts
Mar 28, 2007
7:29 PM
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Not that I know anyting about anything, but I do something similar as Scott described. I'll occasionally pull in a pr or 2 as yearlings to get a couple of rounds, then send em back into the kit.
This tells me 2 valueable things; 1 if they can breed and refly as good as before they're keepers. 2) I can get a trial season on them and have an idea if they may be producers of roll. Have seen some excellent birds that rolled terrific not be able to produce well. I would rather know that now than 3 yrs down the road. 3) As i go through a flying season, all kinds of bad things cam happen, overflights, preds, illnesses etc, ii gives me an 'insurance' so to speak by having some fresh young birds in breeding in case if a wreck.
I almost never keep a bird in for stock as a yearling. I always want to see if they continue to develope more and if they develope any faults at maturity. If they didnt produce anything worthwhie they may stay in kit indefinately. Idealy I'd like for all my stock birds to be 2 yrs plus before stocking, but i dont live in an ideal world ...
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CSRA
89 posts
Mar 28, 2007
7:32 PM
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thats the truth buddy lol
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gotspin7
59 posts
Mar 30, 2007
4:48 AM
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real good info guys! thanks!
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Flyin Hawaiian
105 posts
Mar 30, 2007
1:22 PM
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Steve,
You said,
" but i tell u this there are birds i have that have not flown and can produce just as good and better than stock that have been flown "
Genetics are a question within question at times. Nothing is abosloute (Performance wise). The source in which we determine to be banked upon is the fact that like breeds like. Who can argue with this fact which we have imprinted upon our minds. Performance breeds performance nothing should subsitute that fact however sometimes it isn't the performer that carries the genetic package to produce that in which it is. It often times can be the sibling of the performer who may be carrying the complete package to reproduce the exceptional spinner and or roller. I have had my share of disappointments in trying to reproduce the goods from a polished seasoned bird that made it to stock only to conclude after trying it on 3 or more differrent mates to end up back where it began the kit box. Question do any of you guys beleive that when you have a nicked pair or proven pair of breeders that you can duplicate the same genetic package from this pair at any time?? Often times we sell ourselves short on stock out of a certain top pair but we compromise by convincing ourselves we still have the pair that produced the one we shorted ourselves on, thinking that we have the corner to reproducing the very same genetic package we just let slip away. Sound oh so familiar. Now the guy that has the bird that you let go is making hay with the bird in the stock pen and you our spinning you wheels trying to catch up and wondering why you can't. HMMMM! I wonder why could it be the genetic linkage of reproduction is stronger on this one bird even though you own the pair that produced it.Something to think about when you decide to let a few good birds go.
Now steve I have been guilty of putting up birds that were unflown but I am not recommending anyone to do this as it isn't something everyone should do unless you have been bitten by the BOP'S so badly and have lost valueable birds in the process and only have a key few that are young that you want to breed from when they become of age that is the only time I would go ahead and do it and not look back. Pensom and the famous 6055 hen was unflown and bred some very good birds but understand we are all far from being Bill Pensom and he was light years ahead of his time and ours. The man was a genius when it came to breeding Birmingham Roller Pigeons. I could count on one hand the guys on this list that would even be justified to stand on the same podium as Bill Pensom.
The shortest distance between to points is a straight line. Performance is at one end and you at the other. You can draw your own conclusions as to what I'm recommending.
Ivan
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CSRA
102 posts
Mar 30, 2007
2:54 PM
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I tried to pull it out of the other guys it just was not there Ivan You and i are on the same page u have caught the pass and won the game Baby u are good and made my day i will call you and we will talk more lol
i know now what you are doing keep up the work
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MILO
278 posts
Mar 31, 2007
8:02 AM
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AGAIN. Recipe for disaster.
At this rate, you will have a free hat in no time! LOL LOL
c
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2007 8:03 AM
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Velo99
1016 posts
Mar 31, 2007
8:23 AM
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Addendum to the previous chilled egg story. One chick didn`t get out of the egg. The other is doing well. It has a full crop this morning as well as holding his head up and getting into a healthy chick position in the nest. We are gonna name him Popsicle.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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CSRA
103 posts
Mar 31, 2007
8:24 AM
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can u tell me when fortune teller lol
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Velo99
1017 posts
Mar 31, 2007
8:46 AM
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CSRA,
What this thread boils down to is we have to do what we have to do from time to time. As we gain experience in the sport thru several years of breeding our birds,we should gain ability exponentially due to the fact we are selecting the best we have each season to breed back into stock.
To quote one of the greats,James Turner," Good spinners don`t always make good breeders."
These are the exceptions Ivan pointed out. You can`t catch every good bird simply thru performance. Genetics play a large part of the equation,but thru performance based breeding the chances of scoring a hit are much greater.
The learning curve gets smaller each season we paticipate in this great sport and pastime. As you learn about things beside just what to look for in the air.Like how your stock birds react to different pairings. You will learn the traits that each produce and how they will affect the offsprings performance.
Then you will be on the road to being a consistently good producer of quality birds.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2007 8:49 AM
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CSRA
104 posts
Mar 31, 2007
11:33 AM
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Thats what i have been trying to hear baby i put something out their to see who's who i see good job!
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MILO
280 posts
Apr 01, 2007
8:19 AM
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So you already knew all the answers? LOL
c
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CSRA
108 posts
Apr 01, 2007
1:27 PM
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milo i have to meet you u sound interesting
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Missouri-Flyer
423 posts
Apr 01, 2007
4:57 PM
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Hey Milo,
can ya email me at ropingfever at alltel dot net...Thanks
..............
Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Missouri-Flyer
424 posts
Apr 01, 2007
5:06 PM
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Hey CSRA,
I am a bit confused about a few of your post...Your second post stated that:....well milo i understand where you are coming from thats a good point of view i as for as the question i ask it the way i wanted to just to see whats out there i wish i could fly birds for a year before i go on where do you live?
Then you stated:....you guys all have similar methods 18 to 24 months i have been flying my birds about 2-3 years have been getting great results out of my unflown stock i have been pulling 1-2 birds a year out of the air this year
By reading the 2 above post, do you do as the first one stated, and "wish" you could fly your birds for a year, or the 2nd post that states that you fly your birds 2 or 3 years?..Just curious
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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MILO
287 posts
Apr 01, 2007
5:40 PM
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Check the mail Jerry.
c
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Velo99
1024 posts
Apr 01, 2007
7:32 PM
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I`m Sargeant Friday,Joe Friday. I need the facts ma`am just the facts.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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CSRA
110 posts
Apr 01, 2007
7:59 PM
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i wish i could fly them for a year , i live in the high desert of cali i am starting to pull birds out of the air
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CSRA
111 posts
Apr 01, 2007
8:00 PM
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hey milo where are you i would like to holla at you
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