sac_spinners
112 posts
Apr 04, 2007
7:41 PM
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I just recently lost 2 breeder hens, and now im short on hens i have a hen left in the kit box she is a very nice and deep spinner the best i ever seen in my eyes but one thing is that sometimes she has kitting problem but the roll is great i have no more hens that i really like, so the question is that would you breed from this hen if you was in my position? a bird thats got the roll but has kitting problems.....
spin_to_win
Chor
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Missouri-Flyer
452 posts
Apr 04, 2007
7:46 PM
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most will say never!....breed out of what you expect to receive.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
Last Edited by on Apr 04, 2007 7:47 PM
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ROLLERMAN
105 posts
Apr 04, 2007
7:58 PM
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If thats the only hen you have for him . Id put him with her. Haveing an extra cock bird around is going more trouble.. If any thing use him for pumper pair.
al
Last Edited by on Apr 04, 2007 8:06 PM
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luis
269 posts
Apr 04, 2007
8:16 PM
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I would say NO!Eventually that trait will begin to pop up in your birds.I don't think you want that!Right??
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fhtfire
873 posts
Apr 04, 2007
8:29 PM
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Chor,
I will try and get you a hen from one of our NCRC members.....I may have a hen after the W/C that I can get to you. Chor...you have been coming to all the fly's and people know that you are interested...so I am sure we can get you a good hen from one of the fliers. I would give you one right now...but I need to keep my team together for the W/C.
But to answer your question...DO NOT breed from a non kitter....or you will have a kit full of non kitters.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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DHenderson
28 posts
Apr 04, 2007
8:30 PM
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there are several things to look at to include if this is a common trait you had from the parents that raised her. If she was the only one like that, you are probably ok she probably just developed some bad habits from continuing to fly her when she was having problems of stability and frequency in combination. You would know more then we would on this.
You have no other option but to try her out, worst case scenario you cull all the babies if they are bad and forget you ever did it.
Dave
www.freewebs.com/spintight
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CSRA
120 posts
Apr 04, 2007
9:17 PM
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you should try and locate a good hen if not give her a try she may work out if not cull her remember they are not always perfect just do not practice such techniques in the future i do agree with Mr. Henderson
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nicksiders
1546 posts
Apr 04, 2007
9:43 PM
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Don't get in a hurry just to enlarge your bird count by breeding birds that don't meet your criterier(sp?). It isn't about numbers.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Electric-man
207 posts
Apr 04, 2007
9:48 PM
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I agree with Dave also, just don't breed from those offsprings. At least you could breed enough birds to fill your kit until you get some better hens! You could always keep them few around to ck the skies before you let your A team out! Just a thought!
Val
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sac_spinners
113 posts
Apr 04, 2007
9:59 PM
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This Hen use to kit really well when it was rolling in the 10 and 15 foot range, since she started to come in the roll more she started to have kitting problems, and now she haves it ever since, thanks Paul i really appreciate that its ok if you don't have one ill just ask around the members but not sure who to ask Lol... still not sure if i want to breed her
Chor
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motherlodelofts
1662 posts
Apr 04, 2007
11:46 PM
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Never, ever !!
Scott
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Alohazona
261 posts
Apr 05, 2007
12:51 AM
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Chor,
The first thing that comes to mind is patience.When considering birds for stock,they need airtime.I know that the mainland guys are up against predators constantly,but a good breeding male or female should see between 2 to 3 years flight time before stocking it.The primary reason for this is I have seen rollers with excellent quality fall apart or stiffen after a year and a half and even more after a year.If thats the type of roller you want to be known for ,then go right ahead and breed away.Its a waste of time,and a lot of aggrevation.
Chor, just an example,I have a 2004 blue badge,extremely fast for 20 foot,has never bumped,shortens his roll at lower elevations,calmly intelligent,near perfect feathering,very strong,2 to 3 a min.This bird has made it back from all the overflys.This to me is the type of bird to make it in the stock loft.Why?,because I would be truly blessed to have another 20 true rollers like him.Birds that dont fall apart after a couple of seasons are very important to me.I have lots of birds that roll,they should be doing it right and stand the test of time.Something to think about...Aloha,Todd
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Velo99
1032 posts
Apr 05, 2007
5:00 AM
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Chor,
I would say no. I recently got a bird from a buddy of mine. He is a hell of a roller but kits for three minutes or less. When I first let him out I kept telling myself "He`ll be ok,he`ll be okay." six weeks later he is still a pain in the butt and if I werent gonna give him to a friend who needs some fosters he would be oh so dead.
I would not wish this on anyone. Cull it!
I have another bird who started bumping last year right before the WC and still does after a year. He was one of my best and his absence probably cost me any points in the finals. He is down the road too.
If any bird you have violates the basic rules you have no choice but to give yourself relief. Remember "Best to Best".
You know this hen is a liability. Any behavior that can`t be corrected must be removed. It will becomes a detrimental influence on the rest of the birds and cause more problems than you want to deal with. This is one of those not so fun decisions to make.
Sorry bro.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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gotspin7
70 posts
Apr 05, 2007
5:07 AM
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Chor, as I read your post I only have one question, how does she feel in the hand? what I mean is, is she weak? and if not I would defently agree with all the other posts! she would stay a kit bird, and if the non-kitting is not resolved in a couple more months she would not be flying no longer...LOL
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J_Star
845 posts
Apr 05, 2007
5:49 AM
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I see it differently than the rest of you. That roller is not kitting properly because of her frequency and depth. She has hard time keeping up with the kit. I will mate her with a cock that possesses control and shorter spin. Pick a breeder cock that used to be in front of the kit all the times and you will have some nice youngsters that you will be proud of. As always you will follow the 80/20 rule and only keep the best out of the youngsters. Good luck.
Jay
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Electric-man
213 posts
Apr 05, 2007
6:30 AM
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I look at it both ways, I say she is not kitting likely because she is trying to resist the roll, just guessing since I've not seen the bird in action! Depending on the situation, if your short on birds,breed a few from her, not all young will carry that bad trait.Get the ones out that show these same signs for their problem could draw bad habits from the rest of the kit. Never breed from that generation though, because the trait is there and it will spread in the gene pool. You have to decide why she is not kitting though and make that call for yoursef!
This is a good debate, at least for me. I enjoy reading both sides, for it opens your eyes to several opinions! My way of thinking has changed a lot over my time with the forum. Hopefully, so will Russians! LOL
Personally, I have a young bird doing the same thing and a hen that keeps coming in early. Their both fixin to meet there maker. My kit is young birds and these two are causing problems. Confusing, huh! It all depends on your gut feeling about the bird!However, this is just until you aquire better hens to breed from!
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2007 6:53 AM
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motherlodelofts
1663 posts
Apr 05, 2007
8:28 AM
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Chor ,the bird most probably isn't kitting due to the kit stimulatates it to roll , the bird has no heart and the roll posseses it.
These type of birds "do" tend to pass this fault on and "never" do you breed out of these culls.
Now zoom a head and say you have 7 -8 spread through out a couple of kits, they are not only a problem for themselfs but they can create problems for others and may set in bad habits .
The decissions that you make now are going to be with you and your birds for a very long time, we all breed those type of culls , and I breed birds every year that if used in stock would "ruin" my family .
When you are new it is easy to try and make excuses for particular birds , you have get out of that mind set and allways look at the future.
Weigh the advice that you get carefully , some of the stuff that I read is the exact opposite of what it takes to maintain and build a solif family of birds and will create havac within the kits.
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2007 10:21 AM
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fhtfire
874 posts
Apr 05, 2007
10:20 AM
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Scott,
Excellent post!!! Chor listen to what Scott said. That is a fault and the most important breeding decisions you make...are at the begining. Right now, if you make a wrong choice..you do not have proven breeders to fall back if you make a wrong choice. Like...Scott can recover if he makes a bad choice...he can make a new base with his provens and try again..Hope it makes sense..what a good post Scott.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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ROLLERMAN
106 posts
Apr 05, 2007
11:51 AM
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chor
Is there reasion why this bird is still around that were not hearing about. I know when i have a bird that will not kit. Ill give a few weeks to get it together. If not down the road he go.s.
al
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motherlodelofts
1666 posts
Apr 05, 2007
1:55 PM
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Al , you bring up a good point , and that being particular birds can and will go through such phases.
I also give them a week or two, some maybe three to get it together , many of these spin hard and it is easy to give such birds the benefit of doubt.
I keep them until they piss off which doesn't take long , but they need to be given that chance to get thier act together.
What I hate are the one's that tease you , and are in the kit on "most" days , and those type of birds most allways are good spinners.
But I allways remind myself that there are many good one's in the team that never had a problem and were headache free.
Scott
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Velo99
1035 posts
Apr 05, 2007
3:07 PM
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There it is Scott
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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parlorfancier916
292 posts
Apr 07, 2007
12:09 AM
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I would say give the cock to me haha j/k, well the initial question is do you have a kit of mixed performers or is it performing at the same depth?
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