Double D
317 posts
Apr 10, 2007
7:35 PM
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I was over getting oyster shell today and saw a bag of pellets that are for Chickens that lay lots of eggs. They are at about 16% Crude Protein along with some other stuff such as fats, etc. but also had about 3.75% calcium, I'm sure to help with egg formulation. Would this be a good idea for BR breeders? If not, why? Is there something about this type of pellet that would harm pigeons? This pellet was suggested as something to use along with oyster shell, for chickens of course but I was wondering how it would work for my breeders and fosters. Thanks!
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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Missouri-Flyer
479 posts
Apr 10, 2007
7:51 PM
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Hey Darin,
I have 4 baby chickens inside of my breeder loft, as I had no where else to put them. I feed them chick starter, and have observed the pigeons eating it quiet often. I am not sure of the benefits, if any that the chick starter would have, but they do eat it up..
I have noticed the past week or so that the young pigeons in the nest appear to have a fuller crop, not sure if it is because of the smaller,softer chick starter or not.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Electric-man
229 posts
Apr 10, 2007
7:57 PM
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I use it, but just as a extra. I notice the hens mostly eating it. Its just a seperate feeder in the pen and sometimes it takes a week or two for them to eat it all, but they seem to be eating it more and more. I also keep oyster shell, medicated grit, and even use red cell once every couple of weeks, (24hrs only)! I have had no calcium problem that is noticable, yet!!!! Eggs all look to be strong also. My breeders get a lot of sun, loft is open on both the east and west sides. When it gets hotter, I will put latice up for a little more shade. My birds apear to be doing really good.
Val
P.S. I would keep feeding the grain with it, keeps the gizzard working the way mother nature intended for it!JMO
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2007 8:01 PM
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motherlodelofts
1706 posts
Apr 10, 2007
7:58 PM
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Darin , I used it for years , it is good but gets messy as far as droppings de to the salt in it and water intake.
I found one brand (nutrina) that gave me droppings like grain , but I have to order it now, so I have gone back to grain.
Scott
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Double D
318 posts
Apr 10, 2007
9:05 PM
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Scott, Nutrena Nature Wise Layer Pellet is the one I have access to here. Did you feed grains in addition to the pellet or just the pellet itself? It sounds like you preferred it to grains. I'm thinking I'll switch to it, and it's cheaper than pigeon mix.
I know Paul Fullerton uses a pellet and I was very impressed with how healthy and strong a round of squeakers I got from him were.
Will the breeders have a hard time getting used to it after being used to pigeon mix or will hunger take over and then you're good from there?
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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Double D
319 posts
Apr 10, 2007
9:11 PM
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Also, I think it might be better from the standpoint of the breeders getting a good mix of everything instead of just picking out only the grains they like the most.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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motherlodelofts
1707 posts
Apr 10, 2007
9:12 PM
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Thats it Darin, I found none better and I have tried all that I can get around here.
The only problem is switching them over with youngsters in the nest , they won't eat it at first , I fed straight pellets and what I liked was that there was no pecking around cherry picking what they like.
Scott
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fhtfire
884 posts
Apr 10, 2007
11:02 PM
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The pellets I use are 28% protein....I cut them with 1 part pellet, 1 part wheat, 1 part milo and every two rounds I add 1 part milo. The poop is fine and the water intake is normal....I just give the birds enough food that it is all gone by the evening...so there is not picking and choosing....lol...anyway...I think that it is Swansons brand...it is made in Turlock CA. I will get more info from the bag I buy tomorrow.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Flyin Hawaiian
121 posts
Apr 11, 2007
3:27 AM
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Darin,
Be careful with changing feed types during breeding season. If you use pelletts cut them with wheat. It sounds like the pelletts that you have available are not latent with alot of salt. Remember pelletts and grit are a combination for disaster to happen because of the salt content in both.
One thing that never got mentioned is one of the most important elements with breeders is ample EXERCISE pre breeding and during breeding. I know you are breeding from IPB"S and unless thier big enough you will encounter some problems such as what you have asked about.
A fat and soft hen will become temporarily paralized when laying and so can a hen that is young that never layed irregardless as to thier calcium levels. Transportaion by air speaks volumns when you have wings not by foot. Give me a call when you get a minute and I can esplain this in more detaill to ya.
Ivan
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Velo99
1051 posts
Apr 11, 2007
4:44 AM
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I also use 18% purina pellets. I just add them to the mix like another seed. I have noticed they eat the pellets first. I offer oyster shell instead of grit.Good healthy chicks and breeders.
I used the layer pellets a couple of years ago. They seemed to make droppings pretty smelly even when I cut them with seed.Probably the high protien content.
I do allow my breeders access to their aviary on a daily basis.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2007 4:48 AM
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bob
47 posts
Apr 11, 2007
7:27 AM
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Hi Guys i feed 1\3 lay crumble & 2\3 wheat & have for a number of yrs. now & my young ones certainly do well from day one, i very seldom have small ones in the nest.
I have found nothing better. Bob in Ont.
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Huey
53 posts
Apr 11, 2007
7:33 AM
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I have only had rollers one year. They have been on %20 laying pellets the entire time. They are all healthy and they are feeding babies and setting on eggs at the same time. They have access to Sun light and get grit twice a month. I keep the young ones on laying pellets till they are up and flying.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2007 7:34 AM
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bman
267 posts
Apr 11, 2007
7:37 AM
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I use Purina pellets like Kenny.No grit,no vitamns,no aditives of any kind.No problems,fourth round under the foster for a total of 30 youngsters banded every one fat and healthy.A side benefeit I noticed is when transfered to the kit box they will eat the peas first where before they wouldn't.Purina pellets are shaped and similiar in size to peas and the squeeks switch over to grain readily.
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Ron
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Opinionated Blowhard
94 posts
Apr 11, 2007
11:24 AM
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Ron. What family of rollers do you fly, and at what age do they begin to perform? Kevin
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bman
268 posts
Apr 12, 2007
8:12 AM
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Hey Kevin,
Right now predominatly Hardesty,they seem to come in between 4-6 months.This year I will also have some Bruce Cooper birds and some Rubys flying so I will have something to compare to.
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Ron
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motherlodelofts
1712 posts
Apr 12, 2007
10:50 AM
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Darin , ivan brings up a very very good point about breeding out of individules.
Myself I can't stand having my breeders locked in them 24/7 , i just don't do it anymore as the well being of my birds are more important to me.
I might add that I won't breed in just nestbox complete open loft either, nor do I allow birds from outside of my family into the main breeding loft.
If the ind are large enough most breeding and time spent will happen in them as it is thier personal domain especially if they are fed and wathered in them, and yet they still get out to stretch thier wings, catch a bath and work on thier tan lines , plus it is much more enjoyable to watch the birds.
Scott
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Double D
323 posts
Apr 12, 2007
8:32 PM
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I hear what you guys are saying about the individual breeding cages. Mixed feelings really. I shelled out almost $600.00 with shipping for the cages and so I feel compelled to use them. But more than that, where I'm just trying to get a solid breeding program going and a solid kit flying, I've got to be completely sure of what squeaks are coming from which pairs if I'm going to advance my program with confidence. Plus, where I'm employing a bunch of foster pairs, the individuals give me much better control. The flip-side is that I know it is much healthier for the birds and more enjoyable for me if they were in an open loft situation. Torn!
P.S. Ivan, I've wondered if being in the small cage is why #49 is not setting the nest, especially if that's not what he's used to.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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bman
269 posts
Apr 13, 2007
7:17 AM
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Darin,
You can lock them in till the hen lays then let them have a open loft.When the chicks are about two weeks old and the cock starts driving lock them up again with an second nest bowl.That way parentage is assured and they can still stretch there wings in between.Just a thought.
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Ron
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Flyin Hawaiian
133 posts
Apr 13, 2007
12:24 PM
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Darin,
Bingo thats the answer to the problem with #49. He has never been locked down to confinement. I remember here awhile back discussing the percentages of illegitamet (sp) youngsters breeding from IBP'S vs Open loft. It is really eye opening as to what each guy thinks it is. Monty was one of the greatest flyers ever and he bred in a colony breeding system. He delcared that those surprises were a bonus and gift LOL. I am convinced that if you have a family based on a few pairs and you have developed this over years of breeding I wouldn't even shake a stick at what those gifts were because they were so tightly inbred to begin with. Differrent strokes for differrent folks and for me personally thiers much more to the enjoyment of these birds than just what they do in the air alone. Keeping things as close to thier natural habitat is far more beneficial to the birds themselves and as a bonus to me as well. I try in everything I think about to do what is best for the birds using my own common sense as to would I be psychlogically damaged by being cooped up in a small box that was dark for 23 1/2 hours only to see the artificial light for 30 minutes when I'm fed. And we wonder why when we go to the city Zoo we see Lions , Tigers, and monkeys etc pacing back and forth could this be telling us something?? Thiers alot we can learn by just applying what we see and emulating that environment for the benefit of the birds first and us second.JMHO
Ivan
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motherlodelofts
1720 posts
Apr 13, 2007
12:30 PM
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Dark boxes is another thing that I don't like at all , I want my pigeons to have periods to just to be pigeons with plenty of fresh air and natual sunlight , when it's time to go to work then it's time to put the hammer down and they are ready for it.
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 13, 2007 4:25 PM
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fhtfire
887 posts
Apr 13, 2007
4:30 PM
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Darin,
We have had many conversations and you know where I stand on the individual vs open system. I am kind of like scott...I don't fly "totally open" until the birds lay there first rounds. Once they get in the swing of breeding season...it appears to me..that most of the cocks are more into feeding there young then humping other hens....I am not saying it does not happen....but they seem to care more about there own mate and there young...I have noticed that rollers aren't as...aggresive in the horny dept....as say racing pigeons...who will hump everything...Rollers seam to be more committed to there mates then othere breeds...as far as I can tell..LOL!!
Anyway...Bill Crider had fed my birds for me when I was on a trip....my birds had been breeding for months...he made the comment that my birds seamed so much more "happier" and healthy looking then other breeders that he has seen...especially since the birds had been on there third round or so and they did not even look stressed. I am convinced that it is becuase I am letting them be pigeons...
with the "semi" open loft system.
I know that Darin is trying to figure things out with his breeders and know who is with who..etc....but if you have good solid breeders in the loft...you can get a "gift" every now and then...but just like Richard A...posted on here a year or so ago....I will not be to upset if one of my Awesome breeder cocks...jumps one of my awesome breeder hens...the bird will eventually make it to the stock loft if it has the goods and will have to prove itself regardless of the parentage...as long as I know that it came from my stock loft...and I do not introduce new birds...then I am fine with it......unless you are pedigree breeding....you will pull the best bird in the air regardless...and mate it to a couple different birds anyway...so you will see the birds worth in the stock loft..regardless of the parentage.
Since breeding in the semi open loft...I have yet to lose a breeder to sickness and have yet to use any...meds on the breeders...Just good ole...ACV...and other vitamins. I have nice healthy babies....and have a high % of young hatched.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
1721 posts
Apr 13, 2007
4:30 PM
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Darin in no way were your ind a waste of money any way you shake it , in my breeding loft I have individules , I just have a partition in front and a window where they can go outside to sun and bath.
You can rotate pairs,rotate the hens and cocks ect. , you can lock them down until they lay then open up ect.
Scott
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Ballrollers
766 posts
Apr 13, 2007
10:04 PM
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I agree 100% Paul. I use the same system. The exercise makes all the difference in the world. I've never had an egg-bound hen. I don't see much hanky-panky, either. Most pairs seem to be very monogamous.
YITS,
Cliff
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