RO
48 posts
Apr 12, 2007
1:11 PM
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Do you guy's think mismanangement could cause good bird's to turn into cull's?I have visited many loft's and had various conversation's on the subject and it seem's some guy's could care less and other take the subject very serious.I feel that your management could make you or brake you but thats just my opinion.I guess it all depends on your level of dedication.,Just curious to se what other's think about management and the reflection it has on your loft.
Ro
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motherlodelofts
1714 posts
Apr 12, 2007
1:21 PM
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They are like any performance breed of animal, yes management (training) is critical, if someone thinks it isn't then they are clueless.
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2007 1:28 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1274 posts
Apr 12, 2007
1:24 PM
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Hey RO, outside of having good stock to start, management is what will make or break you. It takes real dedication, effort and consistency to get a kit of decent rollers to show what they got.
I think most will agree its probably 80% of breeding and flying rollers.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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nicksiders
1577 posts
Apr 12, 2007
7:17 PM
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You're absolutley right. Bad management can and does make good birds bad. Too many people think you can buy a winning kit. They change out thier lofts with each failure thinking it is the birds.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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CSRA
146 posts
Apr 12, 2007
7:44 PM
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management is crucial to your success and also remember the level that individual is on he may not not be on that level you are on in the hobby so try not to be so hard on them
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gotspin7
86 posts
Apr 13, 2007
5:21 AM
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CSRA, NICK.. you guys got it on the right track! management is the key to success with any family of birds!
Sal
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fhtfire
888 posts
Apr 13, 2007
10:37 PM
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Good management will make or break anything...manage a business poorly and it will go bankrupt...manage your employees poorly and they will not perform....manage your kids poorly and they will be in jail....well...manage you birds poorly and they will not perform....
I think that it is funny that so many people will get a good strain of birds and blame the breeder or the birds...like the breeder sent me culls...or the birds suck....it is the manager that makes the birds....of course you have to get the birds that fit your style....even then it takes work...with anything...you get out..what you put in..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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MILO
319 posts
Apr 14, 2007
9:10 AM
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Of course. Management is everything. You can ruin the best with poor management. You can even take mediocre birds, and make them look decent in my opinion with excellent management. You only get out, what you put in.
c
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Alohazona
266 posts
Apr 14, 2007
12:25 PM
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For me it starts at the point were the birds are starting to feather out.I will walk them around the yard in my hand,dipping elevations to get them balancing and occasionally flapping their wings.It progresses from there,always keeping them moving to where you want them.I use a training stick to guide them,mostly keeping it pointed down,when the stick comes up above my knee they will instictively and knowingly be on the move.Certainly never to the point were they are looking to put considerable distance.Eye contact,whistling,short claps and eventually the feed can seems to work.I have always liked the way guys have used droppers or flags.Making sure they know the rules at the earliest point has served me well.The ones were I was working to much and didn't put the time into early on, show it.Keeping them thinking before they are really able to fly is key,this is were you can use your creativity,which is seldom touched upon in posts,but is a constant....AlohaTodd
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parlorfancier916
303 posts
Apr 14, 2007
12:30 PM
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If you don't treat them like champions they ain't gonna be champions that's my model..
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Velo99
1052 posts
Apr 14, 2007
5:28 PM
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Ivan,
I do something similar. I start working with them almost as soon as I put them on the floor to wean. Several "field trips" to the kitbox. Pre trap training with a ramp to the kitbox with some small seed in the feeder so they associate feed with the kitbox. Just playing with them and handling so they know I am the boss.
The dog also enters her role here too. She is the getter. When they get out of bounds,she gets em back in bounds. Most of them aren`t scared of her.They walk out of her way and give her a bad look.
I make her ride one around the yard on her back. She hates it. They learn,I guess,she is their protector.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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JMUrbon
239 posts
Apr 14, 2007
10:47 PM
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You cant get blood out of a turnip as well as if you start with culls then you end with culls. However a poorly managed kit will look like culls no matter the quality of the birds. The difference is they will show some good qualities on occasion that keep the manager thinking he isnt really that bad. The worst manager is the one that feels hes the best and has nothing to learn from anybody. One thing we all have to remember is that rollers like all pigeons are creatures of habbit and just like I tell my kids about school work. Keeping up is easy, catching up is a MF. changing bad habbits is hard but teaching and keeping good habbits is easy. You just have to want to do it and be able to recognize the bad ones. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Gregg
86 posts
Apr 15, 2007
6:30 AM
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One of the things I agree with is the constant changing of birds and blaming same is ridiculous.
What works for someone else though will not necessarily work for you. Work requirements, family obligations, etc. will alter the amount of time some have to spend with the birds. Some also have different personalities and relate to their birds differently. This has to be taken into account and thought through.
I advise people to get the best birds possible. Then work those birds. They may not work on your system the way that they worked at the loft where you purchased them. Where the thinking person comes into this is in deciding which of these birds work with the time and skills that I possess. Over time one learns and becomes more adept at getting the best out of the birds he has provided that he got some good ones to start with.
Different loft setups, personalities, time, feed, when fed, training, kit preperation , all come into play. The birds are not the fault if you have good ones. Just give them time and most will adjust better than us. The problem is that too many think that success comes instantly. Three years is only a beginning with a family of birds. You haven't done them justice with less than five years. All predicated on the first day, that you got good stock to start out with. It's a learning process.
Gregg.
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motherlodelofts
1733 posts
Apr 15, 2007
8:29 AM
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That is a realy good post Gregg !!!!
As for 3 years with a family , man how true , that is nothing and just enough time to know that you have a long ways to go LOL LOL.
You are a 100 0/0 correct that you can't just buy into it, it takes alot of work and time to "build" your stock loft and there are no shortcuts.
I have been working with this family now for 9 years , and I am just now on a solid path and direction as far as getting some consistancy within the stock loft and out of the just breeding pigeons syndrome , it takes no less than 5 years to know what you have and start getting a "feel" for them and whether it is going to progress for you ,at least that is how I see it for myself.
Scott
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RO
49 posts
Apr 15, 2007
8:56 AM
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I agree,with the comment's made.I still see far to many guy's thinking they could buy there way to the top with what I call the "FLAVOR OF THE MONTH" bird's just because this person is doing well with them dont mean your going to do well.In some cases money out weight's brains.
Ro
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2007 1:17 PM
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Gregg
87 posts
Apr 16, 2007
5:34 AM
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Thanks Scott,
I know. I went through it years ago with the light bulb not getting enough ampheres. Now I have been going through it again and chose the hard way to go. Progress comes slowly and every step forward is a good reason to get out the Brandy and ice. It is also blowing my mind at what has become, totally unintentionally, my best producing hen.
Later,
Gregg.
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motherlodelofts
1736 posts
Apr 16, 2007
7:27 AM
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"It is also blowing my mind at what has become, totally unintentionally, my best producing hen.
Later,
Gregg. "
One of my key foundation birds was a bird that I had as a foster LOL
Scott
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Double D
328 posts
Apr 16, 2007
7:59 PM
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Since I'm on the short side of the 3 year mark, (I started with Ivan's birds a little over a year and half ago), I thought I'd throw my two cents in.
You guys are absolutely right about the time frames and the learning curve and I'll admit my expectations were much shorter than 3 to 5 years. I knew I wouldn't be winning the World Cup with my first kit but I did think I would be farther along than I currently am.
If/when you start a new flyer out with your birds, have a long conversation about this subject so they have realistic expectations about what they're in for. It's certainly not as easy as I initially thought it would be and I felt like I had done considerable research.
However, I know that good things don't come easy and you get out what you put in. I have a great family of birds, I just need to learn to breed and manage them now.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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CSRA
155 posts
Apr 16, 2007
9:12 PM
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Hey RO how did your prelims turnout Sat.
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RO
50 posts
Apr 16, 2007
10:26 PM
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Windy too windy so not so well.But I fly again on the 28th I think.If it's not windy I should do better.Steve did Willie set all the fly's back a weak?Yo crazy buddy Kevin was around,,,,lol!When do you fly?
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