Santandercol
982 posts
Apr 14, 2007
9:27 PM
|
Hey List,
Been asking around for some stuff Monty talked and wrote about when he was still around and what I've come up with may be of some interest especially to some of us newbys.I hope Rick you don't mind me posting this interview you made with Monty.I have asked some freinds who knew Monty well for anything they have so it will come as they dig it up.
YITS,
Kelly
Rick Mee with Monty Neibel 1998
Interview
RM- Descibe your breeding programn, how many pairs you use, and
what type system you use. Examples would be open loft, poloygamous,
individual pens, ect. How many young do you raise each year?
MN- Their is no hard set rule for the number of breeders I use,
only use what is worthy.
RM- How do you select birds for stock? What are the
requirements?
MN- Requirements for stock birds, must roll hard too spin with
good style and kit well and show no deterioration.
RM- Do eye sign, size, type, feather quality, or colour come
into play when you select stock? Do you rely on pedigrees very much?
MN- I pay no attention too eye sign or colour. Size + type 99%
of the time looks after itself if the bird performs properly. Any
bird that is the exception to the rule is simply flown. No, i do not
rely on pedigrees.
RM- Do you feed any particular type of grains or seeds? Any
difference between feeding young and holdover kits?
MN- I usually keep kits on 95%wheat, 5% millet with red mineral
grit occasionally, with a mix in the Winter. I also use small amounts
of Belgium mineral powder. Young bird kits are fed the least.
RM- What do you do too a kit too get them ready for a
competition? Do you feed any special feed? How many days do you start
the preparation and do you have any tricks you do too alter them too
get enhanced performance?
MN- In getting a kit ready for competition, i start by getting
rid of all the birds that tend too not go on the breaks. Birds are
kept on a strict 3 day schedule and than held 4 days for the big fly.
I stress them by breaking them down with smaller amounts of feed and
use grit and mineral powder to cook them up. IN SHORT,I YOYO FEED
DRAMATCALLY UP AND DOWN.
RM- In your opinion, what are the most important things about
training rollers?
MN- The most important things, about training rollers are too
train on a regular schedule, record and observe. Never release a kit
without a good plan.When in doubt about the weather, and if the kit
looks too good, do not release them.
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2007 9:43 PM
|
Santandercol
983 posts
Apr 14, 2007
9:33 PM
|
My Views by Monty NEIBEL
This is an article extracted from the 1987 January-February Coalition Bulletin
My Views
by Monty Neibel
The Roller hobby today seems to be hopefully swinging more towards performance. It is my opinion that a roller hold no value whatsoever unless it executes true spin in the correct manner and is a solid kit bird. All others are garbage regardless type or expression.
There are no short cuts in this hobby. The reason the roller lofts of today are full of rollers of no value whatsoever is because most fanciers cloud the issue of breeding for true spin by being hung up on color or type or by trying to manufacture spin by devious ways other than the obvious which is mating spin to spin. It is rare to breed a champion spinner that is really poor in type or expression. However these true spinners rarely show well because they tend to be on the fine side.
The most disastrous thing a breeder can do is breed for strong full heads and necks coupled with heavy feather and long keels. Rollers instinctively resist the roll and this kind of breeding program will eliminate both spin and frequency. Don't kid yourself that you can fly a kit of deep quality lightening fast spinners and then take them straight to the show room and be competitive. In order to keep a kit of good spinners home they must be kept lean and hard and if the truth be known, half-starved. I'm often asked how I get my birds to kit so tight and burst in unison. This is no big secret. I just cull out the flyers. The rest comes natural if you mate one spinner to another.
If you really want a true challenge let's see the roller fanciers as a unit fly great deep spinning tight kitting kits first before we get hung up on all the other misguided channels of direction that bear no resemblance to what the hobby should be all about.
In closing I would like to give one tip on training. When you first flag your young up off the roof, if they do not form a kit the second time up, you flagged them too soon.
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2007 9:37 PM
|
Santandercol
984 posts
Apr 14, 2007
9:35 PM
|
I thought that putting up what Monty had said in the 1996 IRA about his system might refresh some of you. I always thought that his 3 day system was set up on three days, but it is a four day system.
"Day 1 (fly day) - The kit is alwasy called in with about 2 tablespoons of light millet. They are then given 2 1/2 cups of hard red wheat and 1/2 tablespoon of red grit. Day 2 - 1 cup hard red wheat. Day 3 - 1/4 cup hard red wheat and 1.2 tablespoon red grit. Fly kit next day. This is a close outline and slight adjustments must be made according to performance of the birds. This style of feeding will control the birds and cause consistent performance for months at a time.
When getting ready for competition or visitors, one might find this system to work very well. Hold the pigeons for 4 days instead of 3 days. Day 1 (fly day) - Call them in with 1 or 2 tablespoons of millet. Adjust this to your own pigeons and how you scan them. Then 2 1/2 cups of hard red wheat and 1.2 tablespoon of red grit. Day 2 - 1 cup hard red wheat. Day 3 - (Morning) 1" in the bottom of the cup (1 thumb thickness) of red wheat and 1 teaspoon of millet. (Evening) 1' of red wheat in the bottom of a cup and 1 teaspoon of millet. Day 4 - (morning) 1" red wheat and 1/2 teaspoon Ntural Antwerp mineral powder in small piles of the feed. Feed with 2 trays so everyone has room. (Evening) 2 teaspoons of millet, 1/2 teaspoon of minderal powder and 1.2 teaspoon red grit. Fly birds the next morning and feed them up on good when they come in. Once again, experiment with flight and seasonal adjustments, on the amount of petrol you give them. The intention here is to stroke the central nervous system to obtain maximum performance from the birds. In other word it is stress on, stress off. We have a pigeon here, we have to tear down to get the best in performance."
Hope this brings out a few posts
----------
Kelly
|
gotspin7
90 posts
Apr 15, 2007
4:49 AM
|
Kelly, thanks for sharing, real good information!
|
Flyin Hawaiian
138 posts
Apr 15, 2007
6:55 AM
|
For those of you that are not familiar with Monty's Yo Yo system please beware that he is instructing this prep based on a bird or birds within the kit that aren't already torned down. You must evaluate as he says scan your pigeons and understand that the weight as a performer is at its optimun breaking point. This is something that cannot be taught or explained in detail but rather observation and failures with experience can and will be your best indicator if you are grasping the concept he is conveying. Scanning your birds to know what they need not what they tell you they want is the key. The whole key to this plan lies within the first days rest and the amount that you come to in feeding them on thier first day of rest. This is the measuring stick and key formula to this yo yo feeding in order to get the breakdown right. Monty always generalized and expected you to read between the lines and didn't understand that what came to him naturally he thought thier wasn't any other way to think so never thought of writing every little detail. The amount he is refferring to in his prep below is based on a 20 bird kit. Another important detail is pulling the water. Keeping the bird as lean as possible is a necessity but this all comes with a rountine of creating a habit for the birds. Don't try this on a whim and prayer thinking its gonna get you a few extra breaks you must religiously do this in thier training or you will have birds drop out of the kit. Ever see the bird that fly's in heat or is out of shape and comes down regurgitating its feed. Do you know why he's doing that its the water he's retaining. If you had pulled out the water 2 hours on a warm day before release see what happens!! Monty is missed deeply by the flyers here in the pacific N.W not just for his enthusiasm and lopve for the birds but his uncanty way that he approached life and his ability and drive to be the best he could be. I've got a lot of history with him and times spent on the Golf Course and hunting trips that are priceless. He is missed by all of us!
Ivan
When getting ready for competition or visitors, one might find this system to work very well. Hold the pigeons for 4 days instead of 3 days. Day 1 (fly day) - Call them in with 1 or 2 tablespoons of millet. Adjust this to your own pigeons and how you scan them. Then 2 1/2 cups of hard red wheat and 1.2 tablespoon of red grit. Day 2 - 1 cup hard red wheat. Day 3 - (Morning) 1" in the bottom of the cup (1 thumb thickness) of red wheat and 1 teaspoon of millet. (Evening) 1' of red wheat in the bottom of a cup and 1 teaspoon of millet. Day 4 - (morning) 1" red wheat and 1/2 teaspoon Ntural Antwerp mineral powder in small piles of the feed. Feed with 2 trays so everyone has room. (Evening) 2 teaspoons of millet, 1/2 teaspoon of minderal powder and 1.2 teaspoon red grit. Fly birds the next morning and feed them up on good when they come in. Once again, experiment with flight and seasonal adjustments, on the amount of petrol you give them. The intention here is to stroke the central nervous system to obtain maximum performance from the birds. In other word it is stress on, stress off. We have a pigeon here, we have to tear down to get the best in performance
|
nicksiders
1586 posts
Apr 15, 2007
11:21 AM
|
Thank you, Kelly
Thank you, Ivan
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
W@yne
369 posts
Apr 15, 2007
1:17 PM
|
Santandercol
Great to read Monty's posts very welcoming. Thanks Ivan on giving an insight on Monty's yo yo system also.
Regards
W@yne uk
----------
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
|
Santandercol
987 posts
Apr 15, 2007
5:33 PM
|
Ivan,
Great to have your input.
----------
Kelly
|
CSRA
152 posts
Apr 15, 2007
6:19 PM
|
good deal baby thanks for the post
|
Flyin Hawaiian
140 posts
Apr 15, 2007
7:02 PM
|
Hey Guys,
One more thing I forgot to mention is the yo yo feeding mentioned in this article that Monty wrote was pre his judging trip after he one the W/C and saw Joe Roe's kit he revised his feeding technique to encompass using peas in the latter days of his yo yo system. I will write it down for you guys tomorrow as its past my bed time LOL! I'm at work by 3.00A.M every day and off by 11.30 A.M
Ivan
|
Santandercol
988 posts
Apr 15, 2007
9:00 PM
|
Ivan,
That would be great.I guess you know Al Hunt in Lumby,eh?Maybe you guys have hunted Whitetail together?He's one of the gentlemen sending me these writings and I imagine he knew Monty ever since,so he has some old stuff I'm sure.I'll be interested to hear how the recipe had changed.I'm going to keep poking at Al to see what else he can come up with and it's nice that you can help fill in some of the blanks.
Yits,
Kelly.
|
Santandercol
990 posts
Apr 15, 2007
9:13 PM
|
CSRA,
Baby???I didn't smell any babies!!!LOL
----------
Kelly
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2007 9:13 PM
|
Flyin Hawaiian
144 posts
Apr 16, 2007
8:37 AM
|
Hey Kelly,
Yes I know Al Hunt and all the boys up your way. Are you flying with them? I personally miss having you guys in our region but with the stiff pass port thing in all I guess it was doomed to happen. Al has some of the best upfront Lloyd Thompson birds around these days. I have meany a found memory traveling with Monty to Galgary to visit Bill Gess on hunting trips and for flying birds. Peter Roach lived up that way as well and Alvin Dow. Man we had some really great get togethers in B.C at Ernie Silverie's house with home made vino and all the trimmings not to mention some of the very best in flying performance rollers.
Ivan
|
motherlodelofts
1737 posts
Apr 16, 2007
10:23 AM
|
I had one "fine" country breakfast at al Hunts house , both him and his wife are good people !
Kelly , how is Arron doing ?
I havn't heard to much from him in the past year or two
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 16, 2007 10:31 AM
|
Santandercol
996 posts
Apr 16, 2007
6:34 PM
|
Ivan,
Al,Aaron,Doug Mitchell and Dave Naud all helped me get set up with rollers last year.This is my first time flying comp but the truth is I'm only just beginning to understand the intricacies of flying these little birds.Trying to help out the club as well by putting my kits up as we are a small club here.
Scott,
Yeah,Aaron is doing good and coming down here May 5th to see the island birds fly.Think he lurks around on the other list.
----------
Kelly
|
Santandercol
998 posts
Apr 16, 2007
7:24 PM
|
Monty.... It was driven home too me just how important tight
kitting is, The kit hammed together so close one could have covered
the entire kit with a quarter. They flew very quietly as the
sensitivity built up causing the breaks too be like snapping your
fingers. Big deep clusters in the three second range. If you want too
ruin a kit of or never have a good kit keep those useless outflyers
around. Out flyers didtract the kit and make it difficult for them
too work in unision. Birds that fly away from the kit are worthless
and posses no value no matter how good they can spin.After you cull
them, than go hunt through your record book and cull the parents.
|
Bird_Man_916
14 posts
Apr 17, 2007
10:45 AM
|
Here are some young Monty's pix...
Here are the parents to theses two young...
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2007 10:31 AM
|