Flyin Hawaiian
146 posts
Apr 16, 2007
1:25 PM
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Hey guys,
I came across and article that I had written a few years ago and thought it might be of some help to some of you that are looking for ways to control your birds and the heights that the fly.
Ivan
When a holdover kit and young bird kit hits the ceiling you have
lost control over the little darlings. It parallells to flying into
to much wind. One must remember that they are creatures of habit.
When you give in to them they will settle in and do what they will at
the time. High flying is not only contributed by the feed alone its
also contributed by routine in and of itself. Consecutive days of
high flying on a contiual basis will train them to orbit and hit the
ceiling and stay there like tipplers. There is a stronger resistance
to the roll then one knows. When the rollers find thier comfort zone
it will be hard pressed by the trainer to get them to settle.You must
nip it in the bud before they have control over you and frustation
sets in. By this point they have become very strong on the wing and
very much in physical condition. The first thing that most guys do to
correct this is cut the amount of feed to get them at a normal flying
height. The problem with that is they become so bouyant that any kind
of lift in the air will just put them up even higher. The best way to
regain control is to change the routine and not fly the birds for at
least 4 days to get them out of the routine that they've settled in.
Feed them up instead of down. I think that is where the boyz are
seperated from the men in knowing how to tickle thier nervous system.
Finding out where thier breaking point is and knowing how and when to
tickle it is the differrence in winning and loosing providing lady
luck is with you at competition time. When you have found that point
they will work with frequency and not elevate because they are
expending all thier energy where it should be in the roll. To many of
us keep them to fine for to long. Building up the physical muscle
structure of the bird and knowing when to taper is crucial.
Exercising the birds and letting them be pigeons says alot for
itself. When we get into a routine of things we become grouchy and
weary. A vacation usually gets us out of this funk. So it is with the
birds. A simple bath and lounging around in the sun will help them
replenish themselves. Very important do not commit the cardinal sin
of trying to keep your birds in competition form on a daily or weekly
basis.That will continually cause you more frustration then joy that
this hobby presents.There's more to it than meets the eye and one
must study the birds and stay two steps ahead at all times. Flying
high and skying out is the first step in loosing control of the kit.
Take care of this problem sooner than later and you will become
reacquainted with the birds you thought you lost.
Best
Regards Ivan
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gotspin7
93 posts
Apr 16, 2007
5:50 PM
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Ivan, you got some real good information and I appreciate that you share what most wont, thanks!
Sal
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squeeker
19 posts
Apr 16, 2007
6:28 PM
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Ivan,
Oh the Dreaded Routine. My little darlings aren't skying out, but are nonetheless, picking up a bad habit of lounging on the loft roof. Now these are squeakers-in-training and I believe I am over-feeding them. There seems to be a fine line between giving them that extra few minutes to eat and making those fat little suckers think life is a "permanent" vacation. My question would be when and how long to let the squeaks get acquainted with their surroundings and not train them to look like hawk bait on the loft. As I sit here typing, my squeaks have been sitting on the loft for 5 hours. LOL Let me start my own answer,,,first, dont feed them again for 24 hours....You guys can take it from here... thanks,,, Janene
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Santandercol
997 posts
Apr 16, 2007
7:08 PM
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Ivan,
Good post.My birds were flying way to high(I was feeding them too much,2cups 20 birds.)so cut the feed back to a tablespoon apiece.Brought em down allright but now they are too low so I'll try the yo-yo system see what happens in a couple days.
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Kelly
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CSRA
156 posts
Apr 16, 2007
9:30 PM
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Right on!
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Flyin Hawaiian
147 posts
Apr 17, 2007
6:07 AM
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Squeak,
First and foremost is the only control you have is the feed can with youngsters. Routine and consistancy is the key to imprint to them what you expect from them. Establish the amount of feed they can consume in one feeding and mark your can. You may need to bring them down a touch so you get thier attention. They must come to your beckon call. It is essential to establish a call with them during thier feeding time so they can associate the two. This is an important part in obtaining good results when they do take to the air. Remember they are copycats and creatures of habit. The kit pen should be thier place of refuge and security. I have read some of your responses to other posts so I know and have confidence that you will get them past this stage. Be persistant and don't let your empathy for them take over. Rollers will do well on a very limited diet just as they will on a life of gluteny LOL! Good luck with them and I hope this helps. I will send in a article I wrote a few years back on how to train a young bird kit and maybe this can be of some help to you.
Ivan
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Santandercol
999 posts
Apr 17, 2007
6:54 AM
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Ivan,
I was talking to John Weins last night(he has given all his flyers away and quit flying till he can move away from Vancouver.Getting hit by peris every time he flies)and he told me not to bother with the yo-yo system with late hatched(August-Sept)birds.It won't work with the younger birds.What is your opinion on this??
Thanks,
Kel.
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motherlodelofts
1740 posts
Apr 17, 2007
8:05 AM
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Kelly , I will take a shot at this from my own limited experiance with it.
First, what I see is people think that they are useing the Yo - yo when in fact all they are doing is just flying every three days.
There is more to the yo-yo than that , and it is a system that works on a harder more stable type family.
With these type of families good mature birds take handling and management or they get strong on you , they also don't need to be flown nearly as often as un stable families.
From what I have seen the yo-yo is a great tool to micro manage condition of mature birds , from maintance flying on down to tightening the screws on them.
I believe that the heart of it is being to know where the condition of the birds are due to the consistant schedule and being able to adjust as needed , it also gives them what they need (fly day) and yet keep your thumb on them for the next fly day ,with a spark from hunger , then it starts all over again with a good feeding (fly day)this is the short version LOL.
I might add that it takes at least a month to get them where you have a good grasp on the birds where you are able to micro manage them.
For myself , I have played with the system just long enough to see the benefit, but in no way did I have it figured out on how to best utilize it.
Scott
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Santandercol
1000 posts
Apr 17, 2007
8:09 AM
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Thank-you Scott.Hey!!John said you are a pretty good guy,eh!Cheers.
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Kelly
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Electric-man
240 posts
Apr 17, 2007
8:33 AM
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Ivan, I too would like to see the article on training young birds. My latest set of ybs are giving me a chalenging time this go round, but they have been harrased a lot by sharks. Scared to get up and fly, just want back in the kit box.
Thanks for the past articles, you, Kelly, Scott, Dave, all you other guys. I know that I have progressed greatly from help from you guys! Theres still a long row to hoe for me, but we should learn something every day or were not doing the hobby or the birds justice! JMO
Val
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motherlodelofts
1741 posts
Apr 17, 2007
9:36 AM
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Kelly , also the metabalism is different between old birds and young birds , And like I mention the system goes much deeper than just flying every 3 days.
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2007 9:39 AM
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Flyin Hawaiian
148 posts
Apr 17, 2007
1:58 PM
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Kelly,
John is correct the Yo Yo feeding system is targeted towards an old bird team one that has been established. I failed to report this and pulled a Monty assuming everyone understood LOL. I know the last time I was up to see John in 05 with Ken Easley he was very disappointed with the outcome of not flying clean. At one time he was thinking of moving between Aaron in Kamloops and Larry in Falk Creek. Work would have probably been an issue. Give him my best when you talk with him again. We have asked him to judge our Fall Fly but he hasn't commited to us yet. If he does maybe you can come with him and take in the fly.
Now back to the young birds. The cardinal sin that should never be placed on young birds is a limited volumn of feed. Young birds should be fed well up until thier at least 6 mo's of age. They are still developing muscle and bone density and replenishing degenerative tissue. The fastest way to retard the roll and cause bad habits with flying style in young birds is to hold back the feed. You must know the differrence between what they require and need rather than what they fake you to believe they need LOL! I hope this may help you understand the differrence in MOnty's Yo Yo System.
Ivan
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Santandercol
1001 posts
Apr 17, 2007
9:48 PM
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I am enjoying this thread.Learning something here for sure.
Ivan,
Yeah,I'll be seeing John when he comes over here for the prelims May 5th.We'll see if we can't get out on the water too that day and work the prawn traps and see if there are any chinook biting.One guy,Bill Boone from our club is moving over here in August(he had to quit flying in New Westminster as the peris are so bad and after he quit flying they attacked John's kitbirds so bad he has quit until he moves when his kids are finished school)and I'm hoping I can talk John into moving here as well so maybe the more guys with rollers in a smaller area we could reduce our loses to the BOPs.Hah!Good luck,eh!?
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Kelly
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motherlodelofts
1748 posts
Apr 18, 2007
7:15 AM
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"Now back to the young birds. The cardinal sin that should never be placed on young birds is a limited volumn of feed. Young birds should be fed well up until thier at least 6 mo's of age.'
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT,there is a world of difference between youngsters and more mature birds ,THEY MUST BE FED WELL , !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scott
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