Double D
336 posts
May 07, 2007
12:29 PM
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I previously had all of my breeders in individual breeding cages. Because of the issues I was having with calcium deficiency and for other reasons, at the advice of many others, I changed my game plan, modified my loft a little, and have now switched to an open loft breeding system in addition to feed and grit changes.
I added landing perches to the front of the breeding cages and am using them as the nest boxes, (since I paid over $500 for them). I then took it slow and opened up one cage at a time for a full day so that only one pair at a time could get out, get used to the loft, and learn where their nesting cage was. With 16 pairs this process took over two weeks but I wanted to be sure they knew where they belonged.
Here a couple days ago, after getting each individual pair used to it, I opened all 16 nesting cages and began to let my breeders enjoy the benefits of an open loft. There's no question that they are much happier and enjoy it much more and I enjoy watching them much more. There didn't used to be any nest building and now I see how much they seem to enjoy that part of the process. However, there have also been issues that I was hoping to get your experience on, especially those of you that have switched from individual breeding cages to an open loft.
When I first opened all the doors, all the birds got pretty excited and were landing all over the place on each other's perches. Cocks were entering other nesting cages and the fights ensued. It seemed like a bunch of jailed convicts that had all been thrown out in the desert together and told to start their own community. There was alot of battling for turf, who was the top dog, birds in the wrong nesting cages, etc.
So far, it has cost me one baby pigeon that obviously got stepped on and killed during a fight and it's nestmate is alive but somewhat cut up, appearing to be from sharp toe nails while being stepped all over.
The main question I have is that over time will these birds become used to the change and begin to settle down and leave each other alone or am I always going to have Cocks invading other nesting cages, causing fights, and killing young?
Will the sheriff be decided and some semblance of pecking order occur in the loft and then they'll get back to breeding and raising young in a calmer way?
Do you find issues with birds not being very good about sitting eggs, (primarily cocks), because of the freedom they now have?
I look forward to hearing about your experiences. Thanks!
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1356 posts
May 07, 2007
12:52 PM
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Darin, I breed open loft for all of my breeds. I have eight large open breeding lofts. Every year when I put the birds in they go through their week-long spell of establishing their turf. Wars and battles will rage between some birds for several days until finally after a week or so, there will be peace. You have to keep an eye out for the occasional cock bird that trys to play loft boss and run everyone out of all of the top row of nest boxes. Those are destined for individual breeding pens.
I prefer to put the cocks of the pairs in the breeding lofts before I pair them up to hens so they establish their territory and get to know one another. Then after mating them up in individuals, they are released in the loft to do their thing. It will settle down after a few days. After the first round it will be calm in the loft.
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fhtfire
933 posts
May 07, 2007
12:54 PM
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Darin,
Yes! They will settle down.....LOL!! YOu are so right about them being convicts....they are having a little riot...wait until they start burning toilet paper...LOL!! Yes, you will have cocks that will land on different boards and yes there will be fighting...but once they settle in....that all stops. When one of my cocks makes a mistake and lands on the wrong board....the realize it real quick and get off. It is totally Normal for them to be a little confused. They should settle down in a couple of days....if you want to hurry the pace a little bit...you can help one cock lose to another cock and the fighting will end a little sooner...I myself recently put in 3 new cocks from the A-team and gave them new nest boxes....it took awhile for these birds to claim the box...I locked them down with the hen and let them out just at feeding time and then put them back in....once the hen new who her man was....she starts getting a little protective of the box....anyway...the new cocks are a little skidish..because they are young and only know V perches.....and if a cock flys up to there box...they bail out...LOL...what I do is take one of my old cocks and hold him....and put him in the nest box opening and let the new cock...peck at him a little bit....then he gets some confidence...then I let the new cock start pushing against the cock that I am hodling and then I drop the cock in my hand so the new cock thinks he actually kicked him out of the box...boy that new cock just starts going crazy in the box...like oh yeah...I just whooped some ass and this is my turf...in reality...the old cock I was holding would have given that skinny kit bird cock and ass whooping....
As for your set up....if you want a cock to have a certain nest box...then another cock wants it or is confused and enters by accident...let them fight it out for about 10 seconds...and slowly walk to the nest box...when you see a wing or tail or leg from the cock that you don't want poke through the entrance...give him a little jerk to where he thinks he just got pushed out of the box.....after about three of 4 times of that...the cock will think he was defeated and not enter again....and the cock that "won"...will keep that box no matter what.....you may have to do this until they get settled....it keeps the fighting to a minimum when you "throw" the fight.
You may run into a problem if one cock wins...then he gets to cocky and will try and take over his neighbors box too...then you do the same thing....have him get whooped on by yanking him out of the box....he will usually give up and then just claim his box. I had to do this to one of my new cocks....I helped him win a fight...then he tried taking it to one of my old cocks next door.....so then I had to help him lose.....You will love it once they are all settled....if you have no babies...or eggs...you can let them fight it out a little under your supervision...but I usually help the cock that I want to win a little bit...Hope I made sense...but right now in my loft...I added the 3 cocks last week and they are living in perfect harmony!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Steve_uk
152 posts
May 07, 2007
1:23 PM
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Individuel aggresive cocks who just wont learn tie the legs together giving 1 inch slack they soon learn hope this helps.
Steve....
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nicksiders
1649 posts
May 07, 2007
2:34 PM
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I believe the open loft is more healther for the birds. When I seperate the birds after the breeding season I make sure the cocks and hens can't see each other. When I decide on the pairings I lock them up in thier nest boxes for about three to 5 days and then I open them up. They then have an open loft.
The reason why I do not want the hens and cocks to look at one another is in hopes that it will break the bond so if I do want a different pairing it tends to stick. If they can see one another they continue the bond and when you put them with another bird they tend to go back to the original pairing. You will still get some of it, but not as often.
I have hobbled an agressive cock like Steve suggested and after getting its butt kick a few times he gives it up. It does work. I know I quiet picking on real big guys after getting my butt beat up a few times. Big guys always hit harder........big truck always beats little truck if everything else is equal. The saying "the bigger they are the harder they fall" is bullshit. It shoulf be "the bigger they are the harder YOU fall"......I don't know why I got side tracked. Old age I guess.
In an open loft, I don't care how strong you think the birds are bonded you still cannot guarentee the pedigre. That is why I never offer a pedigre. I will not give a bird to somebody who asks for one....sorry, old age crept in again and I went off in another tangent. The wheel is turning, but the hampster is dead.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on May 07, 2007 2:36 PM
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Double D
339 posts
May 07, 2007
7:56 PM
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That's good to hear that things will calm down. I certainly hope so because at this point I'm afraid of losing more young or more eggs.
I have two cocks that might benefit from some shackles. I'll keep an eye on them.
Paul, I threw the fight 4 or 5 times tonight with different cocks. The problem is IS what goes on all day when I'm not there. I could see one cock was totally whipped and would abandon his nesting cage the moment the one cock would enter in. It's odd to me that a cock would seek to run a cock out of a LOWER nest cage. Anyway, the learning continues. You'd think after a year and a half I'd have a better handle on some of this stuff.
I long for the days when all I have to worry about is breeding and flying good squeakers. The rest is like a damn soap opera everytime I tweak something or try something new, i.e. new feed, different grit, open loft.
Hey Paul, the good news is I saw that old hen and the cock gettin' busy so I'm hoping for the best. We'll see if she'll lay.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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Double D
340 posts
May 07, 2007
8:21 PM
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It's just light enough inside the loft for me to see what's what so I just checked on the birds to see what was going on. All the hens are nestled in their nest bowls and all the cocks are keeping watch huddled on their perches. Everything nice and quiet. Why can't they behave that way during the day? LOL!!!
ONE SERIOUS QUESTION - At what age of the babies will the cock and hen leave them alone in the nesting cage for extended periods of time while they're out messing around in the loft? My pairs seem to be doing it at about 7 to 9 days old and older. I'm a little surprised they'd leave them alone at that age with other cocks around the loft.
They also seem to have no problem leaving one egg if they've just recently laid it. When there's two eggs, they seem to stay right on the nest so far otherwise. Thanks guys, I'm still trying to get this figured out.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1360 posts
May 07, 2007
9:16 PM
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Darin, with the warmer weather it is not uncommon to see both parents off the babies that age and down messing around on the floor. As long as their are two young ones in the nest they are generally okay.
One thing to keep in mind in all of this is what the birds are doing (the fighting) is just part of nature. Don't try to make them be perfect little pigeons when you throw a bunch in a loft. They have to create their boundaries, pick their perches, get to know one another and set a pecking order. It is the way it is and it will take care of itself. Just walk away and let them be. In a month or two you will be amazed at how well they all get along and you will probably even see some cock birds feeding other babies when you have a bunch on the floor.
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fhtfire
938 posts
May 07, 2007
10:20 PM
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Good post Brian....just today Darin..it was 94 here and I have some babies that are about week old and the parents were not on them at all today...but at night the hen is right back up there....no worries.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Shaun
476 posts
May 07, 2007
11:54 PM
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A couple of other things to mention, Darin. I've had an open loft from the start and I've got used to some of the wacky things the birds do. Because I have wood shavings on the floor, they usually end up blowing into the corners and under the perches, which suits me fine. There's always at least one pair which, despite the availability of a nestbox, choose to lay their eggs in a corner on the floor, in the heaped shavinigs. It's a territory like any other and the pair chase any intruders away from that area. Mind, it's a pain which a daft pair choose to lay on the floor in the corner right next to the loft door.
Then there's those pairs which, despite being allocated their own nestbox, use the top of the stack of nestboxes as their place to raise young.
When pairs are split up at the end of a season and then put together again, if mates are to be changed, so as to experiment with pairings, the whole territorial chaos can easily resume. Some birds steadfastly refuse to use a different nestbox to that which they occupied the previous year - I had one hen which would nip into her old box and sit on the eggs of another pair which were taking a brief break for food. They would return to their box and an almighty scrap with the intruder hen would develop. I had to grab the eggs quickly to avoid them being scrambled.
With an open loft, there's also the risk of questionable parentage. As has been observed, pigeons seem a lot happier in an open loft and cocks will regularly try it on with hens other than their own. I've certainly seen hens squatting for a strange cock. I read a statistic somewhere which suggested we should accept a figure as high as 11% for eggs which result from unplanned matings. In a tightly bred family, it's not usually a problem, but if it's critical that the parents are known, then they should lay their eggs before being allowed into the open loft environment. The same goes for subsequent rounds.
Shaun
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sundance
111 posts
May 08, 2007
11:10 AM
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Darin, for myself I started out in an open loft because I didnt know any different. As I got serious about the rollers and met a few good flyers and done LOTS of reading I became convinced that I needed to have individual breeder pens set up. I did have a few good birds at the time but wasn`t sure yet how I was going to get the most out of them. I chose a cock and a hen and locked them up and raised a bunch of babies from them. The following year I locked up the best young hen with her father and the best young cock with the hen, and bread the heck out of them. After a couple years of doing this I have a pretty close bunch of birds all related in some way.
Now I use the pens to lock up my pairs to get the pairings I want but as soon as they lay I open the doors to the cages and let them free loft. I feel the birds are healthier and they seem to raise healthier babies who get bigger faster. If a hen does stray from her intended mate I know the birds are not really crossing and the gene pool is still BASICALLY the same. I dont do pedigrees so I dont feel I`m compromising or hurting anything.
I am entertaining the Idea of trying to put together a few smaller pens large enough to keep 3 hens and 1 cock in an open type setup. When the hen is setting the eggs I`m about 99.9% sure who the mother is ,and with only 1 cock in the pen, well, do the math.
has anyone else tried this method and what results have you got? It seems like it would work in theory. It could produce a lot of half cousins. Butch
Last Edited by on May 08, 2007 11:12 AM
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Shaun
477 posts
May 08, 2007
12:19 PM
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Butch, I read all the theory on polygamy breeding, but having put it into practice, I've yet to get anywhere with it. I know it can work for some, but I always find that regardless of the number of hens with the sole cock, he homes in on one particular mate and the resulting eggs are the only ones he sits. Yes, he'll probably tread a number of hens, but I've found that it doesn't necessarily result in eggs. Even where it does, they're dumped here, there and everywhere and the hen quickly abandons them - seemingly because she knows she's not the cock's proper mate.
Apparently, the optimum number of hens to the cock is three. This number didn't work for me and recently I stuck the cock in with a whole load of spare hens to see what would happen. It was the same, only worse. The cock has treaded a few of the hens, but stuck with just one. Add to this the fact that the hens still pair up and there are eggs all over the place. It's not as if the eggs can be fostered, because I don't know whether or not they're from a pair of hens.
Shaun
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Double D
341 posts
May 08, 2007
12:48 PM
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Crazy Birds! Today is even more weird. I have two situations where the resident pair in that nesting cage is allowing a cock from another pair to sit either on the perch out front of the nesting cage or right inside the cage. The one cock sitting inside the cage is actually in there with 2 8-day old babies and doesn't even seem to be interested in them. The parents of these young weren't even in the cage but when they were this morning, they didn't seem to mind at all that the other cock was inside there. No fight, no nothing. Odd.
FROM ONE EXTREME TO THE OTHER! LOL!
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
Last Edited by on May 08, 2007 12:49 PM
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fhtfire
942 posts
May 08, 2007
2:17 PM
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Darin...that is funny...I will have a cock sittig on the landing board to a nest box that is not his...with the other cock inside on eggs....There is no problem.....LOL...it is funny how they act.
As for cocks jumping hens....I really do not think that it happens in rollers as much as it does in...lets say homers....roller cocks seem to be less agressive......I am not saying it does not happen...not as much.....I spend countless hours watching my birds....and I have yet to see one cock mount a mated hen that is not his mate or vise versa.....I have noticed that when a cock is getting cocky with anther hen...she will fight him...or fly off....if they are mating and the cock is mounting and another cock flys down.....she usually stands up and flys off....
Anyway....it will be perfect harmony in the next couple of days Darin.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Electric-man
274 posts
May 08, 2007
6:14 PM
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I have one nest box higher than the others. The cock really has to watch it, all the other cocks will try for it, if left unatended very long. Last fall, I had an older hen loose a mate and after a couple of weeks she starteed getting in the mood and she just wouldn't give up on wanting to move in that box. The other cock and hen would just beat her up good. Soon the original hen laid eggs and then the cock started changing his game. You know, when the cats away!LOL Soon he was treading her and believe it or not, she laid her eggs in the box just inches from the other hen. I never saw them fight once after that! After 3 or 4 days the cock started setting on the second set of eggs and left his first mate to take care of her clutch by her self. I didn't like the new pairing and chunked the eggs and moved the second hen to a breeding box with a more suitable cock. Never know whats gonna happen next!
Paul' I do the same thing when I see a cock try to take over a box, while their fighting, I'll grab the intruders wing when their flapping around and jerk him out and gently and toss him across the loft. He gets a look on his face like "damn"! Usually if i have to do it a second time, I will gently bounce him off the opposite wall and usually, no more problem.I do it fast where he doesn't realize that I grabbed him and he just thinks he got his ass kicked! LOL Won't tolerate a bully, not even with people!
Val
Last Edited by on May 08, 2007 6:21 PM
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fhtfire
945 posts
May 08, 2007
9:22 PM
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Val,
I have to agree...it works like a charm..They think the other cock is Rocky Balboa...LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Double D
342 posts
May 08, 2007
9:36 PM
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So, the cock I talked about earlier that was inside someone else's nest box this morning - I thought hmmm, I won't be home all day and I won't get home till late, (about 9:30 P.M.), surely he'll be back up above in his nest box with his mate come dark when they start to roost.
I'll be damned if the sucker wasn't sitting right in near the nest with the two babies in it while the sire and dam to those babies sat out on the perch on the front of the nest box!
I'm out of patience with him so I locked the SOB back inside his nesting cage with his hen until they lay some eggs and then I might try letting him out again. I feel I gotta break his little habit or the damn bird will be worthless. He wants to act more like the resident babysitter than he does a cock.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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kcfirl
92 posts
May 08, 2007
9:48 PM
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The subject of pigeons breeding with others mates has been studied pretty extensively. Levi did a study with Kings and of course Rollers are different. But it can and does still happen. Paul - what % of each 24 hours do you spend in the loft? My guess is that there is still plenty of time left for a sly cock to get his rocks off with the cute recessive Red MILF. LOL
anyway, the construction of an open loft, the size, the breeding compartments, where the perches are or aren;t, the flooring, can all have a huge impact on cross mating. Basically you want the birds to mate in the nest box - so they should be large. Also, locking them in for the first couple of days till they are definitely mated helps, put the cocks in first so they fight it out before the hens get there for their preferred nest boxes. No other perches in the loft besides the one on the front of the box helps.
There was a great article in the NBRC bulletin a while ago on this by a european fancier. He went into detail about how and why he had his loft set up the way he di, with the objective of minimizing cross-breeding.
Later,
Firl
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sundance
113 posts
May 09, 2007
3:32 AM
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Maybe this cross mating thig is also a trait hightened or lessened by particular family genes. In my loft I have seen cocks leave the nest box when his hen moves in to take over the nest and he imediatly goes for a stray hen on the floor. I have also had a few cocks that would feed any squeek that comes up to them when on the floor. AS many as 4 at a time. And none of them his... I have a hen right now that is setting a nest completely on her own because I had her mated to a young cock that I pulled because I needed him in the WC kit to make the numbers. She gets off the nest long enough to eat and drink and then goes right back to the box. Not all birds will probably do this and not all of mine will, but for a polygamy system, maybe picking the right hens and the right cock is key to making it work.
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Flyin Hawaiian
171 posts
May 09, 2007
3:58 AM
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Hi Darin,
First and foremost in an open loft you must establish the cock birds to thier appropriate nests. The individual nesting boxes you are using is sufficient for thier breeding and copulating needs. A perch at the entrance is a good call on your part. Remember this the birds famialirize themselves by pattern another wards if you have your nest boxes in some kind of stack system or side by side they acquaint themselves with top right, middle left, bottom left etc. My stock pen is split in two sections of 8 pair and are identicle to one another in nesting arrangements but on opposite walls of each other and this is what I use to split cock and hens after the season is complete. The good thing about this arrrangement is if you want to split out pairs the following weason you can do so by putting them in with thier new mate without them trying to get back with the old mate. I have been doing this for many ears with great success and alot less frustration. Problems that arise must be nipped in the bud ASAP and no longer than two days or you will be doomed. These birds are creatures of habit and if you let them go they will try and show you who boss is.
I hope your nests are elevated so you can let the youngsters get on the floor of the nesting box while the pair lays the next round and won't be bothered by the young in the process. Another thing I fogto to mention invest in a limber bamboo pole about 8 ft in length and discourage any intruders that may be going to the wrong nest. I had a real wekaling one time that wouldn't defend his nest box and the intruder would bully him but when he got up there I body slammed him with this bamboo rod three times and he thought shit popeye ate his spinach and that was the end of that non sense. One more thing that important is to keep a light bulb burning all during the night hours say a 25 watt bulb of something because often times a hen or cock will get off the nest or may be eating and get disoriented because they cannot see to get to thier nesting box and get in a wrong one and than you can lose babies and eggs. Thier are so many more details but I hope I have helped yo in some way. I'm still waiting for you call my friend.
Ivan
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J_Star
865 posts
May 09, 2007
5:24 AM
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I personally won't breed from overly aggressive cocks. The offspring from them will make your kit miserable. They won’t behave like the rest and become uncontrollable. The best thing is to remove that over aggressive cock from your breeding program. I like to breed hinny cocks that have great expression and excellent character and temperament.
Jay
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3757
129 posts
May 09, 2007
6:25 AM
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I have bred in individual cages for the past 30 years with no issues. I also breed my Racing homers in individuals (larger) and it work well. It is really a matter of choice as everyone has their own opinion. I truly like individual pens as it leaves no questions at all on parentage.
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Otis
23 posts
May 09, 2007
7:25 AM
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Dr. Ron, I was a recent fan of IBP's until it dawned on me that I had a loft full of birds all from the same family and I was not putting anything in the breeder loft that didn't belong there. Being a working person, I also concluded that the excesive time requirements didn't warrant the possible 11%
uncertain parentage,experts state and one would expect from a open loft. In a natural sense, the gregariousness of pigeons in an open loft setting brought about more health and vigor in my breeders and thier offspring than I had witnessed in IBP's.
I know, to each his own and Racers are different, but I seem to have enough work without the labors of IBP's-don't you?. Otis
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 7:30 AM
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nicksiders
1661 posts
May 09, 2007
7:52 AM
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Hey Val,
I have done a little of that too, but I didn't want to admit it(LOL). I don't like bullys either; human or non- human......when I was younger I used to bully the bullys and they get that same look on thier faces as the pigeons does.(LOL)
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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JMUrbon
254 posts
May 09, 2007
9:43 AM
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Have to agree with Otis on this one. I too work some pretty long hours and I used individuals for a couple years and they were just too darn much work. I spent all of my time cleaning instead of watching the birds and add that to the fact that every bird in my stock loft is down off just a handful of birds all adds up to a chance I am willing to risk. Not that I dont like the individual idea but more that I dont have the time for it rite now.Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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3757
130 posts
May 09, 2007
9:58 AM
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Otis - Yes, I work two Jobs (Teaching -Masters program and Undergraduate, and Aerospace Engineering). I also teach San Soo and Judo but, I prefer individual stalls. It still is a preference to the individual. The same family argument, to me, does not hold up because I also have the same family but as you know two birds do not produce the same. Statistically it helps me using individual pens. I use a statistical chart on all of my pairs (Homers and Rollers). I still say it is a matter of preference. No rights or wrongs.
Also, one recent study indicated that the illegitimacy rate is around 30-40 percent when using open loft breeding.
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 10:11 AM
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J_Star
868 posts
May 09, 2007
10:29 AM
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I too breeding from individual breeding pens for several years and have been entertaining the idea of open loft matting since all my birds are related. I feel that IBP are allot of work and restrict the birds exercising their wings and freedom. Next year will use open loft methods and then will evaluate the results comparing to the IBP.
Jay
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3757
131 posts
May 09, 2007
10:44 AM
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Jay - Let me know what your conclusion are. Also, Congrats! Van Brock told me that a numerous amount of individuals are flying your birds with success.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1368 posts
May 09, 2007
10:51 AM
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LaRon, the study I read revealed that in the first round in an open loft the average percentage of true paternity was 80, it greatly increased with every round to where by the third round paternity was at 95 percent true for the parents. I breed from multiple large open breeding lofts with all of my breeds. Each loft contains at least eight pair, some upwards of 12 or more pairs depending on which loft it is. I intentionally mix the color pairs in order to increase the likelihood of being able to quickly recognize an illegitimate offspring. Only one noticable jump this year out of all of the lofts which would be about 45 pairs. I'm sure there could have been one or two that got by unnoticed.
For the newbie, don't read all of this and think that pigeons are horrible parents and go around knocking the bottom out of other birds in the loft for kicks. It does not happen as often as most will claim to have read about. Ask everyone here who breed in an open loft how many have discovered a cross mated youngster this year or any year before. Just breed um and be happy.
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 10:53 AM
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kcfirl
95 posts
May 09, 2007
12:26 PM
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The birds will live a LOT longer in a nice big open loft verses a cramped individual pen as well.
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motherlodelofts
1766 posts
May 09, 2007
1:26 PM
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I find that with decent sized ind. that are opened up there is very little breeding going on outside of the boxes , in fact I never notice it happening outside of thier little domains.
I am also with Otis on this, I want my birds to just be pigeons , and want them to get excersise and sun.
But nor will I allow birds outside of the family into the breeding loft ,if need be I have 4 ind. behind the stock loft for that.
Besides , everything comes out of a few key birds these days and I am a performance breeder that doesn't run a large operation, so I don't loose any sleep over it.
Scott
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 1:34 PM
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Velo99
1083 posts
May 09, 2007
5:57 PM
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There are several things I agree with and put into practice long ago.
The percentages are pretty good for correct parentage in an open loft. All the birds I have in the breeder loft are there for a reason. As Brian stated the color patterns and markings are a dead giveaway for me as well.
I usually keep them in a box til they lay the first round. Second round I lock them back up at 14 days or so when they start looking to lay again. After that the percentages are in the 95th percentile on correct parentage. I also use a large breeding box that allows the pair to lay on either end of the box in a new nest everytime. They`re 12x14x42. I built one more box on top on the angle. That particular spot was a point of contention. No one pair could claim it long enough to get a nest built.
I think it rekindles the romance with the nest building and all of the courtship rituals. I find most pairs are pretty monomogous and in this setting mistakes will happen. Another of the 117 reasons to stock your best birds.
I do find that birds which have access to an avairy are healthier by far. Less cleanup and easier maintenance.
Good Luck
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 6:01 PM
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fhtfire
946 posts
May 09, 2007
9:29 PM
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I agree with Brian on the percentages.....The color gives it away too.....I know what colors my pairs produce...I have only had one time where I raised my eyebrow....but I really think it does not happen in Rollers as much as we think it does....anyway...Rock and ROLL
Paul
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nicksiders
1671 posts
May 10, 2007
9:27 AM
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Damn Kenny, is all your stuff that sparkling clean? Everytime you post pictures of in and around your setup it makes me feel grossly inadeguate when it comes to my housekeeping and carpenter abilities.
LOOKS GOOD!
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Velo99
1085 posts
May 10, 2007
2:32 PM
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Nick,
I wish. This was just after I got them built. I have been in various phases of constrution since 82. If I don`t have some skills by now.........I would have to learn to type. My stuff looks decent because it is simple and functional.
V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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