sundance
108 posts
May 07, 2007
7:50 PM
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Hello all,... I have recently recieved E-mails from our regional director in the NBRC. He is proposing that we start the prelims for the fall fly in July. The thinking behind this is to help avoid the pred problems we all have in the fall.
We all know how tough it is to fly in the fall, what with the Hawks and Falcons and such. I`m in agreement with him on this and am willing to do my fall fly in July if the rest of the region is ok with it.
On a slightly different note brought up by anouther flyer, July certainly is`nt technically a fall fly. But, I believe with the trouble many of us have with the preds this really may be the way to go to avoid some of those problems. Noone generally likes change but change happens with us and without us. BOP populations change whether we like it or not. Maybe we should change the time of year for our major flys and schedule them to our advantage. WE cant beat the BOPs, but maybe we can work around them...
Just throwing this out there. I will fly whayever time of year the club wants as long as I have the birds to compete. Flying in the fall has proven to be dangerous for Rollers. What do the rest of you think? Prelims in July and finals in Sept. or Oct. at the latest. It could save some of us a lot of good birds.
Butch
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JMUrbon
249 posts
May 07, 2007
8:25 PM
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The one thing that has not been brought to light here is the fact that no matter when you do your qualifying you will still need to keep the birds in the air for conditioning through the hawk and falcon seasons in order to fly the finals. You cannot move the finals schedule around like you can the prelims so I personally feel that it is a bad idea. The only persons that would benifit are the ones that do not qualify. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Bill C
36 posts
May 07, 2007
8:54 PM
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The other problem is with flying in July is it gets very hot and only the first two or three kits will fly the time and the rest after 10:30 will DQ and not fly in 95' weather. Our region usually has 15 people to fly and most would have to fly in noon and later and not get a fair chance. Best to stick to cooler weather and work out a way to trap the crows. Bill
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MILO
332 posts
May 07, 2007
9:17 PM
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No offense. I hate the hot weather excuse. I fly no matter what. I'd rather fly in 130 degree weather and put up a crappy kit, than try to find 15 left overs from the relentless slaughters to amuse my guests. Sure, July would be great for me, but is it good for someone else? You can't make everyone happy all of the time.
c
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DHenderson
59 posts
May 07, 2007
10:03 PM
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I think as Joe has pointed out all the looser will benefit from a July "fall fly" they will not have to keep them in the air during the marginal times only the qualifier will have to do this so in my view of it, it is a fantastic solution if you indeed have that much predator problems, this will allow most of the looser to build up better for the WC by not risking them during the fall months to condition your kits.
The heat can be an issue but so long as all the flyers can agree you all can fly hell at about 5:30 am and be in good
shape during the summer months. You can easily get off a section of flyers before it gets too hot then wait until the next day to fly more. You might have to stretch it out for several weeks but if you all use panel judging it would be a piece of cake at the regional level.
Good idea for the guys who will not make the finals, so long as you all keep them locked down when the predators hit heavy.
Milo I think you need to bring this up to the region there, if they will not budge on the dates after you get a solid concensus to make a regional date change then just get 15 people to sign a petition and start a separate region. I think this would warrant that if no one will see the benefits there is in it.
Dave
Last Edited by on May 07, 2007 10:23 PM
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kcfirl
83 posts
May 08, 2007
7:53 AM
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Milo,
you live in Monterrey, what do ytou know about flying in hot weather. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence isn't it?
I must say, I would rather fly in heat that with the preds you deal with by a long shot.
Firl
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kcfirl
84 posts
May 08, 2007
7:56 AM
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All,
any region can fly the qualifier whenever they want. The issue, as Joe mentioned, is the finals date.
In my mind, we should always fly the qualifier no more than one month before the finals. That way, the best kit for the finals, will likely be the one that wins the prelim. If you fly the prelim, 4 months before the finals, it is more likely that that kit will not be the best one by the time the finals rolls around.
Firl
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kcfirl
85 posts
May 08, 2007
7:59 AM
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Be careful about starting a seperate region. From what I have seen, the guys that crow the loudest about starting a seperate region because things aren't going their way, are the first to quit after the new region is formed.
Then the new region ends up in a position where they don't have enough flyers because the crybabies that wanted the new region have left the sport.
In some cases it makes good sense to start a new region. Extreme differences in weather or travel distances or too many guys. Just be careful and do it for the right reasons.
Firl
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MILO
333 posts
May 08, 2007
8:07 AM
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Hey Firl.
Reread my post...LOL Thanks for agreeing to agree.
C
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1363 posts
May 08, 2007
11:43 AM
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Otis, I believe you and others are actually thinking on the right track. It just sounds archaic and blasphemous to some to change history. Usually this is because those who are opposed to such a change don't have the problems that others have. I can tell you that here the falcons have gotten worse every year, to the point that we have only half the kits participating that we once had five or six years ago. I anticipate that five years from now it is possible our area might have to fly different times than usual for both the FF and the WC.
If a region believes it will have MORE participation if they change the fly time, then so be it and I wish them the best of luck. More participation is good. The finals dates should stay the same, or shift as a whole. I don't believe we will ever have any answers to this growing problem, only adjustments and complaints.
Last Edited by on May 08, 2007 11:43 AM
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Otis
21 posts
May 08, 2007
12:23 PM
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Well put Brian, Those without raptor problems are being somewhat selfish in any insistance on ignoring the ever growing problem that at least 75% or more of us face. We are none without all. Wholesale changes will be necessary in the scheduling of all flys for the betterment of all who savor competition. We must outwit our winged adversary and modernize our thinking very soon. We want to improve upon the quality of birds that those before us cultivated yet we hesitate to improve upon the methods that insure survival of the our best work. Are the birds today better than those in the 50's, 60's & 70's? How are we to know, if we permit, by our dogged determination to fly when we want to, willingly sacrificing the best of today's crop to annihilation. I'm always saddened when I hear of another rollerman letting go and giving up. Nature adapts to man's idiocyncracies, we must do the reverse. I believe the roller has unfortunately become a primary food source in some states for falcons, we must find legal alternatives, ways and methods to forge our right to fly undisturbed. I know I'm going to give it all I have before I shut down the kit box door and I applaude and support those who do the same in any way. Otis
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JMUrbon
250 posts
May 08, 2007
12:44 PM
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Otis, Brian. I whole hartedly agree with both of you as I too have passed up previous FF comps due to preditors. I see the fall flies future looking pretty bleek if we arent able to move the dates in order to at least attempt to work around the migration of the BOP. This really needs to be something that is put out there to vote on by those who participate and only those who participate. Far to often the changes that need to be made are not made because of non fliers opinions. I feel that all NBRC members should have an opinion but only the fliers should have a vote on something that involves the future of the Fall Fly.
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1364 posts
May 08, 2007
12:56 PM
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Joe, If I am not mistaken, isn't it written in the by-laws that only those who participated in the previous year's FF could vote on decisions regarding the fly.
Last Edited by on May 08, 2007 12:56 PM
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motherlodelofts
1763 posts
May 08, 2007
1:00 PM
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I agree , moving is a good idea , my losses come from mid Oct. through early Dec.
I am thinking of locking everything down in that time frame this year.
I think the fix would be moving it earlier(Sept. Oct), and flying the hotter area's last.
Scott
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kcfirl
88 posts
May 08, 2007
2:01 PM
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I agree with Joe and Scott. I asked for 5 years to have our finals date moved up but it never happened. Our area has tended to fly the finals around the first of December each year. I think one year we got it the 3rd week of November.
I would prefer to have it the last week of October but was totally unsuccesful at getting the national committee to change it in 5 years of trying.
The way to get it changed is to be the fly director. That would be the sure way to do it.
Firl
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JMUrbon
251 posts
May 08, 2007
4:42 PM
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Could be Brian I am not sure. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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fhtfire
943 posts
May 08, 2007
5:38 PM
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Ken,
Chuck Roe has sent an e-mail to the NBRC to put me in the fly director spot for our region...as per our meeting at the BBQ last June..that I would ride shotgun for one year then take over. I have no problem with changing any dates for the fall fly. I myself will fly anytime....But I would prefer to fly a little earlier...weather seems to get real crappy around the finals date...the fog seems to be an issue in our area as well as the raptors....but anyway...lets put that on the agenda for our annual BBQ meeting and have a vote. The fly is all about getting people to fly so we can get as many qualifies as possible and most of all the best time for the birds..so they don't get lost or eat'n!! So I am up for whatever the region wants.....
A fly isn't worth a crap if all your birds are on a hawks dinner table!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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nicksiders
1658 posts
May 08, 2007
7:00 PM
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The decision has already been made......live with it and put your birds up when scheduled. The best kits will always win. Don't need to be changing the schedule now. Do it next term. Next year when the planning starts you get envolved; not after the planning is done.
Nick
........this is some goooood shit, mmmaaannn
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 12:03 PM
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kcfirl
90 posts
May 08, 2007
9:07 PM
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Paul,
this has already been decided locally. The issue is we can't get the national director to move up our finals fly date. that's what's needed.
I might kiss you if you can get the finals moved to last week October or 1st week of November.
On second thought, I'll let Scott do it.
Firl
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motherlodelofts
1765 posts
May 08, 2007
11:35 PM
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Well I do kinda like the way his wifes earrings look on him , but I tempting as that is I think that I will pass it on to Keven who is kinda suspect any way.
Last Edited by on May 08, 2007 11:37 PM
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knaylor
478 posts
May 09, 2007
1:29 AM
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LOL whatever Scott!!!! Keep it up and I will have Tammy kick your arse again!!!
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knaylor
479 posts
May 09, 2007
1:30 AM
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Hey Milo I talked to Mike Wolden today and your FF qualifier is in July this year. It was also in July a couple of years ago also.
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sundance
112 posts
May 09, 2007
3:14 AM
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this thread is , I think, a great example to the club. Even a few who in their original thoughts were against the idea, seam to have at least begun to except the idea as having some merit. To be honest, and I almost hate to say it, In my area the raptors are not as big a problem as they seam to be for the majority. I said I was open to fly whatever time the club agrees on because of that. But my thinking on the idea was in hopes that some of the flyers who are INFESTED with the raptors and refuse to fly for fear of losing their best birds, will maybe change their minds if the fly time are adjusted to avoid some of the migration problems. I too feel saddened when I read of anouther flyer who is giving up the hobby because he`s just tired of losing a years work in the breeding loft. Is it possible to have a larger turn out of participating flyers by adjusting the schedule? Is it possible to reduce the number of birds lost by moving the "fall fly" time up a little, and therefore allow those with the worst raptor problems to lock down earlier? HMMM...Maybe it would be good for the majority.
Brian, I believe you are right about the vote on rule changes being up to those who flew in the prvious years fly, but, is this a rule change or a schedule change being proposed? Maybe all members should be allowed to vote, even those who did not fly last year because of the raptor problem being multiplied by the timing of the fly. Just a thought... Butch
Last Edited by on May 09, 2007 3:16 AM
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J_Star
866 posts
May 09, 2007
5:37 AM
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Anything that will allow the participants to save their birds from the slaughter and/or to bringing new FF participation and keeping the old participants from leaving is always a good thing. I am sure that even the people who could make or break this from happening also have the same issue with raptors. But before just to make a change, this really need to discussed further to come up with a time that will suit the birds also. To me July is the second hottest month of the year after August. The birds will not want to fly or get up pass the tree tops and we all agree on that. Then can the time be changed and add a clause that say the last fly would be around noon???? And just break the schedule fly into two days rather than one!!! Just speaking out loud.
Jay
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1366 posts
May 09, 2007
10:10 AM
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Butch, the reasoning for the "participants only" from the previous flys is to insure that lolly-gaggers and arm chair flyers can't influence the fly decisions that will effect those who actually do fly every year. I agree with that rule as I don't want someone who doesn't fly in the comps having an effect for or against my position on a fly that I do fly in and he doesn't.
Jay, just so you and others can see how broad the variables are here, June and July are generally pleasant months here, at least the first part of the day. Our club usually has its best flys in May, June and July. Here the baking months are August and September. It is usually over 100 degrees every day in the month of September here. And yes, all the flys should be conducted A.M. Our club had a rule that no one could fly the club comp after 10 am. Which meant we had to go to three day flys but it seemed to well accepted. Personally I don't care either way as I fly when we are told we are flying, like it or not. There is no safe haven or sweet spot to fly anymore, we just have to make some adjustments that work best for the short term.
By the way, a good friend of mine got back from judging the state to Texas. He couldn't believe how unorganized regions like those conduct their flys. A flyer actually gets to pick his time of day he wants to fly, and the judge has to sit around until that time comes. I laughed when he told me that he told them that shit don't fly out here. We get a schedule with about 8-10 flyers on it and we follow the milk route. Your time is your time and you don't have no say in it. I wonder how many other regions would get their panties in a full blown wad when they aren't told a time when they will fly, but a placement in the order of the day in which they will fly. Some regions have it much easier than they think....lol
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J_Star
869 posts
May 09, 2007
11:43 AM
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Well said Brian. Here in Ohio, the dog days of summer are mid August. Our July is hot and humid. The temps vary from West to East to South in the US. For this reason, it would be diffecult to set time that will suit everybody. I am surprised that some region choose their time to fly. They should all follow the same rules as every region. I guess...Good luck to all who participates in the FF.
Jay
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kcfirl
94 posts
May 09, 2007
12:24 PM
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The hottest months (based on hottest avg daily max temp) here in Sacramento are in order:
July 94.1
August 93.2
September 87.4
June 87.4
So - what do we do with this data? Well, what I always recommend is laying off from mid June till mid September in order to avoid the worst heat. We have on average 8 flyers on any given local fly and it takes us about 6 hours to finish a fly. Since the hawks are worst from mid October through mid March I always recommend a split fly season that goes from April 1 - June 15 and Sep 15 - Oct 15. That gives us 3.5 months of good flying weather and few hawks. I wish we could split the local club and only fly 6 guys - then we could fly through the heat by starting at sunup and being done in 4 hours but no luck pushing that through so far. We get little enough attendance with a one day fly so a 2 day fly at this point is out of the question.
Regards,
Firl
PS. Website I use for historical weather data is: http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N38W121+1300+043113C
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1369 posts
May 09, 2007
12:45 PM
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Ken, I would say to you what I would say to anyone else in regards to this matter. Find the lesser of the evils, the one that can be controlled. Seems to me the lesser of the three is heat. A little hot weather won't kill a pigeon but thrusting talons surely will...lol
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