pat66
4 posts
May 08, 2007
5:22 AM
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Hi Everyone,just aquired a pair of birds off of a PENSOM "514" LINE, ANY INFO WOULD BE APPRECIATED!also one of them is off of 50 CENT ? THANKS, PAT FROM PA.
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sundance
109 posts
May 08, 2007
10:43 AM
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Who bred these birds? and I never heard of 50 cent??? Is he a rapper???LOL
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nicksiders
1654 posts
May 08, 2007
11:16 AM
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Who was the breeder? DMX is better than 50 Cent.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1362 posts
May 08, 2007
11:38 AM
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...And Ludacris gottum both covered Nick...lol
Forget that Pensom 514 stuff. That bird has been dead for decades.
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motherlodelofts
1762 posts
May 08, 2007
12:19 PM
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Pat , 514 is a old famous pigeon, and like Brian said , she has been dead for decades.
Genetic background is what makes our birds, that is as long as the proper birds are used for the right reasons.
The problem is many jammed up around such birds more for the way it looks on pedigree than anything else.
Does my birds have 514 behind them to some degree ? yep , but what matters is how they were bred from there to now.
When people start throwing around "514" is usualy raises a red flag for me (and others), there can be a world of difference let me tell you,there really is no reason for 514 to even come up except for in general conversation.
Scott
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pat66
5 posts
May 08, 2007
3:23 PM
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Thanks for the serious reply Scott, the guy I got them from is from Calif. he was friends with Bill Pensom and is still a family friend and visits Bills wife very frequently, just looking to see how much knowledge was out there about some of these top birds,apparently you take your birds very seriously, THANK YOU !!!!!
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DeepSpinLofts
75 posts
May 08, 2007
5:42 PM
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Pat you stated the guy is from Calif. with those 514 birds. Does he live in Pennsylvania or California?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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rollerman132
94 posts
May 08, 2007
6:00 PM
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Didn’t Doris Pensom pass away about 12-15 years ago? I think someone's pulling your leg pat.
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Hector Coya
158 posts
May 08, 2007
6:46 PM
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Pensom's wife passed away a few years ago, someons is full of BS.
Hector C
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R.Fuentes
29 posts
May 08, 2007
6:56 PM
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Hi, Pat I am familiar with 50 Cent for he is a good breeder. The person you got the rollers from is a lifelong fancier whose parents kept pigeons before his birth and thus he grew up around them. Raised in Hawthorne and Gardena California as a youth, he met many of the finest roller men that ever lived. These influential fanciers hosted many lawn shows and the area was a hot bed of roller enthusiasts in the 50's and 60's during his childhood. Bill Pensom regularly attended these shows as a judge and teacher. Pensom often brought birds to the shows and occasionally sold a few, with Gene purchasing many birds directly from him and other roller guys who had the Pensom bloodline including Bobby Mikami and his friends. All of Gene's birds have originated from the famous Pensom "514" hen and he is currently breeding from 5th and 6th generations off this hen.--- R.Fuentes
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3757
128 posts
May 08, 2007
7:59 PM
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This current stock did not come from Pensom at all but from Butch Matthew's. Butch had birds from Elliot Norwood and sold out to Gene in the early 1980's. You never hear Butch's name mentioned but you will her Lavin (who I know well and is my good friend) Pensom etc. These birds are based off of Butch Matthew's pigeons. The truth will set you free.
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motherlodelofts
1764 posts
May 08, 2007
11:33 PM
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The only truth is what they do above you, for some that matters little as long as it looks good on paper.
Scott
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pat66
6 posts
May 09, 2007
4:32 AM
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NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE, I LIVE IN PENNA. AND GENE SENT ME THE BIRDS,I KNEW SOMEWHERE OUT THERE SOME ONE WOULD BE A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE, THANK YOU GUYS,ESPECIALLY YOU MR. FUENTES,YOU SEEM TO KNOW ALOT ABOUT GENE AND HIS BIRDS, ANY MORE INFO WOULD BE APPRICIATED! THANKS GUYS, AND YOUR RIGHT THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE, THATS WHY I AM SEARCHING INFO. PAT FROM PA.
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J_Star
864 posts
May 09, 2007
5:13 AM
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Pat,
Try this site: http://www.geocities.com/blindfaithrollers/514story.htm
Hope this will help.
Jay
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1367 posts
May 09, 2007
10:13 AM
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I wonder if 513 and 515 were just as good?...LOL
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Skylineloft
49 posts
May 09, 2007
5:33 PM
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I say we retire the # 514......lol.
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pat66
7 posts
May 10, 2007
4:03 AM
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I say you retire whatever you want!! LOL PAT
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Skylineloft
50 posts
May 10, 2007
11:08 AM
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Pat,
Welcome to the roller forum.
You don't need to be in the roller hobby long before you here about the # 514. This bird is probably one of the most talked about birds in the hobby.
Even though my comment was posted as a joke, to have your # retired is not. I meant it as a compliment as well to the 514 roller.
Examples,
On July 4, 1939, Lou Gehrig became the first Major League Baseball player to have his number retired by his team. Since then, over 120 other people have had their numbers retired.
On April 15, 1997, Jackie Robinson's #42 was retired by Major League Baseball.
Ray
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pacos bill
54 posts
Jul 09, 2008
11:15 PM
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You can throw names around and that is part of the fun doing the Ford and Chevy thing, or 514 vs. Black Rain always draws a crowd, and makes for great conversation and web post, we have a full line of experts which do seem to know the roller history and breeders, but I Know Gene, and he is not much for tossing names, but I dare anyone to take him on when it come to breeding records, he has as what may be the worlds best collection of breeding records from many old top breeders, and he keeps his records to a Tee and up to date be it good or bad, you will know their back ground, which is not as good as seeing them fly, but is better than hear say stuff that claims to be from the Red Headed Hen, Black Rain, Bob Scotts 1220, Rusty, Pensom 514, and all the Smith, this, Plona, that, Jerry, Reed, and others.
I will say the 5 and 6 th gen 514 birds I got from Gene their offspring perform well the ones that kick back to the early smith look with gross legs seem to do the best but are rare a little long cast to my eye. the BOP ate them all last year before they developed but they were looking good, a little slow developing for today’s BOP life span, and not more than one or two survived out of 20 06/07 young birds, we will see what this year brings, the 08 hatch are just now starting to roll, if you have detail questions call Gene he will be glad to fill in any blanks on the blood line, it seams to be close to the Bob Scott line which Hector Coya has don’t let the talk fool you 514 blood runs in the veins of most of the good rollers of today, yes she is dead and gone, and the Black Country stock from which she came is all dead and gone, but the gene pool will always be there no matter how many generation back of course the less gen back the better, and Genes stock may be the last of the close 514 blood.
Pacos Bill
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7001
54 posts
Jul 10, 2008
7:46 PM
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The 514 blodline still lives and still produces the roll!
Some us old time breeders still inbreed and line breed just
as some of articales were written in some threads that been posted.
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Scott
893 posts
Jul 10, 2008
8:06 PM
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Pedigree breeders have done great harm to the breed through the years,personaly when any one talks up 514 and their pigeons I get very suspect,personaly I want my birds loaded with "my" top produces and nothing else,I could care less about someone elses long dead pigeon.
My only concern is the stock within my own loft and what they produce along with the generations down from them,the birds way behind them are a dead issue.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2008 8:12 PM
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7001
56 posts
Jul 10, 2008
8:20 PM
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just because you got burnt in the past, that doesn't mean
everyone is like that.Some people do and are honest and have integrity and breed just like you do.There some breedersthat have the real Mcoy of Pensom and are frequent birds.
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Scott
894 posts
Jul 10, 2008
9:16 PM
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7001 , That is just it bud, I do fly the old blood and I never got burnt, I just learned that pedigrees are best served as interesting reading material and nothing else.
All I hang with are flyers, and I can count on one hand how many times 514 has come up in convervsation, with that said, I do have a framed picture of her above my desk at work.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2008 9:23 PM
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pacos bill
55 posts
Jul 10, 2008
10:20 PM
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Hey Scott you are correct about pedigrees, most may not be worth a dime, but they are very use full in breeding if you know the back ground of the birds on the pedigree, and if they are true and correct, however I bet Pensom did not play into the pedigrees as the birds he imported from the top Brits of the day, they most likely did not have pedigrees but were picked out of the air. I do find it inter resting that it was said 514 parents had gross legs, and as I stated above I get a throw back to gross legs out of my 514 stock once in a while and they perform the best.
The other side of the coin is my best stock bird at the moment is just a unknown mutt don’t even know the back ground on one of his parents so yes air worthy beats paper worthy but don’t discount the true blood of the proven old stock if the pedigree is done by an honorable man and you know the characteristics of each bird on pedigree.
Pacos Bill
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Scott
900 posts
Jul 11, 2008
5:39 AM
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(Hey Scott you are correct about pedigrees, most may not be worth a dime, but they are very use full in breeding if you know the back ground of the birds on the pedigree,)
Bill, honestly it has no bearing in me breeding my birds what so-ever,the only importance to me are the last few generations.many of who are still in my stock loft or went in fertile on my property.
I have all the pedigrees on my original foundation , but I am far beyond them.
There was a time that I thought the pedigrees were important, what I found was that my pairings and most of the birds in stock were based on paper more than anything else.
only once I quit careing that it was jammed this or that did I move forward, once I got real honest with mtself it came down to that I only had 3-4 pigeons worthy of stock along with a few of their siblings, these few pigeons are the entire base of my family.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2008 5:45 AM
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pacos bill
58 posts
Jul 15, 2008
8:08 PM
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Scott you are correct by not breeding to the pedigree only, I also breed with some out crossing I have a pure Pensom mated to a real hot Tim Decker bird hope it clicks, but I do keep a fully pure line of fifth an sixth Gen 514 Pensom blood just to preserve it. I have fun with an out cross with some old smith stuff from the original imports and an unknown this pair produce hot stuff Paco Bill
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pacos bill
59 posts
Jul 15, 2008
9:06 PM
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Quickspin this bloodline looks much like the same blood I have from gene how are yours peforming
Pacos Bill
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2008 9:07 PM
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DeepSpinLofts
974 posts
Jul 16, 2008
2:37 AM
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On the 514 pedigree above it says this:
BLK. BRZ. SELF
PRC 53-514
QUESTION: What is the band number of that spangled/mottled bird on W.H. Pensoms book titled:
===> THE BIRMINGHAM ROLLER PIGEON
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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ICEMAN710
421 posts
Jul 16, 2008
2:46 AM
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521 marcus
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Gary
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DeepSpinLofts
975 posts
Jul 16, 2008
4:01 AM
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Thanks Gary.
So PRC-53 #514 was a Black Bronze Self ehh....
That's good to know!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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