Missouri-Flyer
606 posts
Jun 15, 2007
9:41 AM
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Looking back at the young I have bred the past few years, there are always, in everyones loft, those birds that dont make the cut...
Out of one of your best pairs, if you breed 10 young a year out of that pair, and lets say that 8 of the 10 are above average, but the 2 are well below average, but you kept them around to fill perch space, how likely that if one of these 2 birds are bred back to a good mate, with them being from some of your best, that they will continue to produce as good as the parents...
Remember, these 2 have the same blood as the other 8 above average, and same as your best pair of breeders..
It is my belief that the birds carrying the same blood from the same family are of the same type, just not performance wise.
Just a thought, NOT that I breed this way.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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bman
290 posts
Jun 15, 2007
10:08 AM
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Jerry,
In theory they should be capable of producing good birds.
In practice I would have to ask why if you have 8 above average to choose from? They would be better used as fosters for the other pairs.JMHO
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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Shaun
493 posts
Jun 15, 2007
10:35 AM
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If the small percentage of birds which are not displaying the necessary goods, but which might well be holding the right genes, have specific traits which the breeder is trying to focus on, there might be a reason to breed from them. For example, a particular body type.
Shaun
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maxspin
88 posts
Jun 15, 2007
10:39 AM
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My replacement breeders always come out of the #1 Kit Box. They must prove it in the air in order to move on to the breeder loft.
Keith
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Newflyer
115 posts
Jun 16, 2007
4:53 AM
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I too agree with bman and keith. Thats the way I practice my loft management. Fly high and cull hard
Paul
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rollem42
8 posts
Jun 16, 2007
10:29 PM
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Jerry,
don't even consider breeding from those two. It is hard enough to get good birds from those that do show the goods.
The point is "never try to enhance a fault with a quality. The fault always has a way of showing itself and you have just wasted your time and the use of the good bird which could have been used in a more positive way . If you just like to experiment for the heck of it and you don't mind wasting time, go for it.
rollem42
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Missouri-Flyer
607 posts
Jun 17, 2007
7:12 AM
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Hey Greg,
I understand where your coming from, and as I stated, I DO NOT breed this way, never have and never will. I have pulled only 2 birds out of the air for the breeder loft in the past 2 years as I have no reason to change what I am working with.
This was just something that I thought I would post and see who was thinking what.
As far as wasting time, I dont have enough of that to spare, so I stick to what I know...Thanks for your input
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Hector Coya
168 posts
Jun 17, 2007
10:45 AM
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As an old friend and mentor of mine ,Bob Scott once told me,breed a bird from my kit that dont roll and it can produce some of the best bird youve seen,he had pure Pensoms from pensom, and the best birds ive seen where in his kits.
A bird might have too much control but sometimes you have to put some of that back in your loft.
thats why todays kits many birds bounce leaving the kit and the others bounce landing.
My opinion.Hector Coya
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luis
305 posts
Jun 17, 2007
2:15 PM
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You can learn a lot about genetics and how genes are passed on to the offspring from breeding pigeons.Also reading and informing yourself on the subject can lead to some level of success in the loft, but the bottom line is we can't see hidden genes and therefore exellent birds can come from ordinary breeders.In our sport for the most part we feel we can acomplish more from breeding best to best but these birds also carry hidden genes wich are then passed on to the offspring wich can be pretty ordinary birds.We should all practice some level of experimentation so we can learn.In the long run some level of luck is needed to get exellent birds.
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rollem42
10 posts
Jun 19, 2007
12:30 AM
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Hey Jerry,
I get it, you were just fishing to see what you might catch in the way of how some guys think. Very good. I noticed that several references have been made to Pensom's satement regarding breeding from birds that don't roll. I think that everyone has also read the reasoning behind this which would be that the non-performers should be chosen because they have siblings which showed good to very good performance. This would indicate that the non-performer would have a very good chance of carrying the genetic makeup to produce the goods.
Does anyone have an opinion that we should try breeding from
non-performers that don't have a good performance family behind them? I can appreciate the need to experiment in some situations and that there is the potential for luck to play a role in some successes. I'm open dudes.
If anybody is interested I can give some background on me and what I'm trying to do. If not......that's understood.
Greg
Last Edited by on Jun 19, 2007 12:57 AM
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J_Star
1041 posts
Jun 19, 2007
4:47 AM
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You need to know how and when to use them. You need to know on which mate they can be used. No one can tell you that but your own birds. Once you understand them, then you can apply your theories.
Jay
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Velo99
1185 posts
Jun 19, 2007
5:03 AM
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I am gonna regurgitate some old stuff and throw in a few quips of my own. When parents pass on the genes it is not an even split. That is obvious from the fact there are different colors and patterns.
Using people as an example. Some people are smart,some people are big,some people are crazy. Some people have atheletic ability and some don`t.Does this neccessarily mean that their sibs are carbon copies of them? No of course not.
Now the pigeons are a bit more simple physiologically than people but there are similarities. What we are looking for is a smart,atheletic bird with speed,and control. Does it correctly each time with no hesitation. He is a bird the other birds look to when a new situation arises. A born leader.
Sorry guys this bird is one in a million.
It took several generations of breeding to get this one with your best pairs. So what logic would dictate you could possibly achieve even similar results with an inferior one? I feel it might be posible but highly unlikely.
Breeding a lot of birds FROM YOUR BEST and evaluating them in several categories other than performance can enhance the vitaltiy of your kit. Look deep into your birds and think WHY do they do what they do.
Intelligence,carriage,attitude.
All these contribute ultimately to the performance. By utilizing these abilities this bird can;get a premium spot in the box and rest more comfortably. He can get his full share of food each time it is offered.His intelligence can help him decide which seed to eat to maximize his metabolism.
It can keep him from making mistakes and injuring himself or others during a roll. He might have HIS spot he flies in the kit.It allows some control over the actions of the kit when he chooses. His gung ho attitude will help him to accomplish the things he chooses to do and will usually get him the mate of his choice.
In my opinion these are some of the attributes a stock bird should have before even being considered for the stock loft. It is the best way to move forward with your operation.
Just a few thoughts.
yits
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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