nicksiders
1781 posts
Jun 18, 2007
1:47 PM
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"There is no easy way to successful pigeon breeding, and neither is there any hard and fast rule to follow" Pensom
Listen, watch, and read. Then develope your plan and stick with it; a little modifications now and then.....but, stick with your own plan.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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nicksiders
1782 posts
Jun 18, 2007
1:51 PM
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"There are also numerous fanciers who specialise in the virtues of the birds they breed and fly, evenat the expense of the much higher qualities of the deep spinner. There will always be such fanciers, and it is because of them we have so many different so-called strains". Pensom
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Snicker Rollers
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nicksiders
1783 posts
Jun 18, 2007
1:58 PM
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"Every breeder at one time or another enjoys a period of success, but they are few who constantly enjoy outstanding successes year after year". Pensom
"We must not lose sight of the fact that fanciers are born and not made, even though the aptitude to become first class breeders does vary". Pensom
"......,there are very few birds worthy of the title 'Birmingham Roller'........perfect spinners are scarce......" Pensom
"There are many more good kits than good birds." Pensom
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jun 18, 2007 2:03 PM
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nicksiders
1799 posts
Jun 20, 2007
1:30 PM
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"It is essential that the kit be made up of birds chosen for thier ability to fly in compact order". Pensom
It all starts with the ability and desire to kit. Birds who do not kit no matter what else they do are nothing more than culls. Without kitting they don't perform.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jun 20, 2007 1:38 PM
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Steve_uk
187 posts
Jun 20, 2007
2:24 PM
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Nick do you have any other hobbys?
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nicksiders
1801 posts
Jun 20, 2007
3:38 PM
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Yes, I have other hobbys. I am newly retired from a business life that was extremely full and hectic for 65 to 70 hours a week. I am contimplating going back to work, probably on a parttime bases. This fall I am going to start school to learn to fly(airplanes that is). I have started to do photograpy, but finding out that I ain't very artistic (I am learning though and some of my stuff is getting real good). I have also began tutoring handicapped kids in life skills. I have two pupils right now with one going to leave me - she is moving to another city with her parents. I fish and do a little hunting. I belong to an Eastern Bluebird Sociaty(the number of Bluebirds is dwindling).
I have had a stroke in the last two years; I am diabetic; and I have heart failure. I am overweight which probably had a lot to do with my health problems. I weigh 303 lbs; 321 with an erection. I am bald and not a very good looking guy. I have been married for 40 years which may have caused all of the above; I have two kids that are smarter than I which were caused by the marriage. I have one son who was a result of a relationship before marriage. He lives nearby and I have a grandchild via him.
Yes, I have other hobbys and other issues, too. I have an ability to get a lot done in a short time when I set my mind on it. I get nothing done when I don't set my mind on it which is getting more often of late.
I also collect original art; coins; and othe collectables. I do a little landscaping about the house and build items like fences and patio covers; etc.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jun 20, 2007 4:03 PM
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W@yne
519 posts
Jun 20, 2007
10:38 PM
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Nick
I take my hat off to you buddy and i see you have still got yer sense of humour thats the main thing lol
I wish you all the best for the future.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Steve_uk
189 posts
Jun 21, 2007
9:49 AM
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Your a busy guy Nick fair play to yeh.
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nicksiders
1810 posts
Jun 23, 2007
8:49 AM
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"Every bird in the loft has a value, and it is a complete understanding of these values we must have before we can hope to make any decision as to the benefit we could derive from any certian individual. Hetre I would stress the point that we cannot expect to produce high class pigeons by selecting them out of the air, because of some exclusive trait, and by the same token we cannot expect to breed good stock by pedigree alone". Pensom
What he means is.........LOL
There is not one thing that you can use to decide if you have high class Roller or not. You have to put the whole package together in a bird to know if you have a high class bird. You have to study it not only by its performance alone or its pedigree. You have to analize if it possesses those character traits that are necessary to make it a high class pigeon. It takes years to understand and be aware of the character a pigion possesses.
I close with blah, blah, blah and blab, blab, blab.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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birdman
340 posts
Jun 23, 2007
1:42 PM
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Nick, my interpretation of that quote is different from yours.
What I believe Pensom was trying to say has nothing to do with a single high class bird possessing the 'total package'.
The point I think he was trying to make was that you need to know what each bird in a pairing 'could' contribute to the production of a high class stud. It's about balance, and knowing your birds.
Russ
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2007 3:58 PM
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nicksiders
1811 posts
Jun 23, 2007
3:46 PM
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Maybe
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Snicker Rollers
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belle
247 posts
Jun 23, 2007
3:58 PM
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Russ, that is what I get out of a lot of what pensom said, I think some of it has became the basics of what we do today.
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Velo99
1190 posts
Jun 23, 2007
8:26 PM
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I know what Nick is saying. Usually when I am watching my squeaks interact I start seeing the individual characteristics of the birds. Sometimes we can start to gain insight on the performance possibilities by it charater and attitude. It`s strengths and weaknesses growing up. Do we want to breed more birds like this or is it too weak in character,too strong,too wild? Does it learn quickly? Is it a team player?
MTC
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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birdman
341 posts
Jun 23, 2007
10:19 PM
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Belle, knowing your birds is a must!
Russ
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belle
248 posts
Jun 24, 2007
7:11 PM
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No I was not saying not to know your birds, I was talking about the balance, it is like everything he said is to not have to much and not have not to enough. I watch all my birds in the air and the loft, I had some young birds out for the first time yesterday and had a wild one not landing around the kit box, and a lazy one right next to the kit box and the wild one was the first to trap and the lazy one was the last, So should the lazy and wild one be the balance pair? So there babys should be not to wild and not to lazy?
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nicksiders
1815 posts
Jun 24, 2007
7:47 PM
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"In a study of the various colors and patterns to be found amoung Birmingham Rollers, we find that color is indicative of the character of the bird we have set ourselves out to establish". Pensom
"To clarify my findings, so far as color goes, I refer to reds, yellows, and whites, and combinations of the same, as soft colors, and denoting weakness of character as well. Blue check, red check, and duns, I call the hard colors and which I believe are indicative of stronger character. It is amoung these latter colored birds we find the most stabilized spinners, whereas amoung the softer colors we find the unstable spinner. By stabilized I mean birds which are able to spin and perform with a frequency of about once per minute at least, during a flight of about twenty minutes. The lesser stabilized bird is one which is too frequent in its performance and a doubtful flier in consequence, and also easily lost. Birds of all colors and patterns roll the same as do birds of varing types; but, usually if we do possess a yellow or a sft colored birds of high merit, it is generally bred from colors of a stronger pigmentation than that it illustrates, being therefore, an impure color". Pensom
What I think he just said is soft colored birds have less character; less stable, thus not a high valued bird, but if you happened to have a soft colored bird that is stable and possesses the good character traits it probably is not a pure soft color.........uh, what? I feel like the caveman commercial, you know Gieco Insurance.
Ol' Bill kinda delivered the food on a plate to us on the left side then stepped around and took it from us on the right side.
What do ya think?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Missouri-Flyer
638 posts
Jun 24, 2007
7:53 PM
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LMAo...good analogy Nick,
I take it that he favored hard feathered birds, and wanted his peers to follow his suit and fly only hard feathered birds. I have been to many a loft, as well as own several soft feathered birds that are as good if not better than harder feathered birds of the same loft,same age..Again, depends on the parents, as well as training,feeding, flying, etc....
P.S...I dont believe in the hard feather equals better theory..Not yet anyways, as I have not seen proof with my own eyes...And yes, I have been to many a great lofts.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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belle
253 posts
Jun 24, 2007
8:01 PM
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See Nick I knew I should have stayed out of it now I have no idea whats going on now
or what you just said LOL I not wise enough for this stuff. Give me a few years and I should be good I think LOL
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nicksiders
1824 posts
Jun 26, 2007
11:50 PM
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"Character is the main feature amoung pigeons, and without some knowledge of the same we could never hope to become competent in the art of maintaining, by correct matings, a stud of high class pigeons. It is by no means difficult to recognize the true character of one's pigeons; it differs in individuals, but not so much in the best birds." Pensom
"A first class pigeon looks like one, insofar as the brilliance of the expression which is given off by the testure of the eye, and correctly designed head....."
Pensom
".....In every loft where high class pigeons are to be found, we notice a striking similarity amoung them, which is as it should be." Pensom
Character above all other traits is the most important consideration to be given in the evaluation of your birds to be put in stock.
The following is important: "This agreeable condition(continued following the last quote from above)is one which only reveals itself to the breeder after long experience, ALTHOUGH IN MOST CASES THE BREEDER HIMSELF IS QUITE UNABLE TO EXPLAINTHE REASON FOR HIS CHOICE OTHER THAN THAT, THE LONG PROCESS OF ELIMINATION HAS SET THE STANDARD FOR HIM". Pensom
Ask even the more successful breeder to explain character and you will see him spit and misfire all over the place, but he knows what it is, he just can't explain it. He will tell you he "knows it when he sees it" or other statements that don't mean a pissing thing to anybody else, but him.......and he really does know what he is talking about; he really does. He knows what character means and what it looks like. It is in his mind's eye and he cannot explain it because man has not yet evolved to that level.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2007 6:50 AM
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nicksiders
1826 posts
Jun 27, 2007
1:27 PM
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I think KGB, Scott Campbell and Ol' Bill was right about the character of yellow birds. I just had a yellow 2006 bird roll down 4 times in the same fly. The first time was in the yard from about 60 feet; next time was off of the breeder loft at about 80 feet; the third time it was of off the kitbox at about 70 feet; the forth time it was off of my house at about 80 feet. She is a spinner with good form and she can take a hell of a beating....it was awful; just plain pathetic. The last time I saw her she was just walking home from across the way; I think she just gave up on that mode of transportation. Now she has developed a phobic fear of falling. We are going to soon have a heart to heart talk about today's performance.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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nicksiders
1851 posts
Jul 06, 2007
11:21 AM
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I have decided not to go any further with this. I will continue to read the book again; in fact I have finished it awhile ago but I will not post anything concerned with it.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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