wafer kits
1 post
Jun 23, 2007
12:07 PM
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Hi gang;
My name is Al Perron. I have enjoyed reading this forum for several months and appreciate all that Tony is doing for the hobby. Looking back through the archives I noticed several erroneous posts relating to flying rollers from a portable kit. These remarks were made by some that I have the highest regard for as accomplished roller men but it appears that they have little understanding of flying mobile. It is true that portable kits have not scored highly in competitions (to my knowledge) but I contend that is only because there are not more of them. Statements to the effect that you will lose them to hawk attacks etc. are way off base. I have been flying this way for over 15 years and would be happy to hear your comments on the subject. Al
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classicpony
230 posts
Jun 23, 2007
1:46 PM
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I too would like to have a portable KIT someday but now, I still working on my #1 then come the #2 then a portable if I can ever get that far.
Jim
@thebirdhouse
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Missouri-Flyer
633 posts
Jun 23, 2007
2:40 PM
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Welcome to posting Al.
Tho I have never been exposed to anyone who has had a portable kit, I find it interesting. It appears not to far off from a normal kit, in that once trained to hone into their home, they should land on or near no matter where they are, if trained this way..You wont get any opinions about the subject from myself, as I have no experience with mobile lofts.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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ROLLERMAN
134 posts
Jun 23, 2007
7:53 PM
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Al
I have not flown a portable kit in over 30 years.At one
time i had two kits flew out off kit boxs in the back of my pick up truck. i never let my birds fly over 10 min and lost very few birds to hawks or over flys. I keep them very hungry so i had no problem calling them down to the kit box. One thing i found wih my birds was birds in The portable kit box did not kit as well as my other kits. All my portable kit box birds were all hand feed from 2 weeks old,
AL
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2007 7:59 PM
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Velo99
1189 posts
Jun 23, 2007
8:19 PM
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Al,
Welcome.
I wonder if keeping them that hungry effects the kitting? One would think that kept in that close of a box they would kit like glue.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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wafer kits
2 posts
Jun 23, 2007
8:40 PM
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My portable kit has no problem with kitting. My biggest problem is getting enough of them to execute simultaneously for scoring. That is a management problem. They fly for 30 to 60 minutes for me. The duration depends on how much they are being fed. Thanks for all your comments. Al
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Velo99
1191 posts
Jun 23, 2007
9:10 PM
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Al,
I am interested in all forms of flying rollers. As much as some hate to think about it it might be a feasible solution to feeding the hawks. Only thing about it is,the time requirements to properly feed and house a portbale kit.
Could you clue us in?
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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wafer kits
3 posts
Jun 24, 2007
2:35 PM
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You can train squeakers to trap in by placing a settling cage on top of your box. Then it doesn't matter where you are when you feed them because they are restricted. After 3 or 4 days you can remove the cage in or near your backyard. Just let them come in and out on their own like you would from your stationary loft. It may be a week or so before they are flying on their own. Once they are starting to fly tree-top height move them a few miles down the road to a park or ball field. The first few times you may have to wait for them to all trap in. Once they have learned the ropes you can release them just about anywhere. I like to use several different locations out in tthe country where they can see all around them. Before long you will be able to go home without them if they won't trap in. You can come back later or even the next day and they will be there waiting for you. No need to spend hours waiting for them to trap in. Al
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motherlodelofts
1855 posts
Jun 24, 2007
5:45 PM
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Al , it is great to see you here !!
But Al I can't see a kit ever being able to settle down and work well by flying out of a portable , normalcy and routine plays a major roll in flying pattern and wing beat that is cunductive to a working team.
It is the same as a team that has been hit by hawks, they just go into hawk defensive flying patterns and they are far from settled down.
I think that it is a novel idea , but like color breeding it is a hobby within itself.
Scott
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Otis
34 posts
Jun 25, 2007
6:42 AM
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Al, I commend you on your steadfastness in the hobby! I really wish YOU would write a book on portable/wafer kits, simply because you put rolling and kitting as important as returning to the portable site. Unfortunately, the measuring stick for portable lofts has been Joe Stayer who seems to employ cruel and unfair training methods and never mentions a word about the roll. Most have read about his methods on other lists and shudder at the thoughts and BS of his tactics with the birds. I realize your numbers are few, and you need every portable flyer to buffet your ranks, but it would make sense if you wish to popularize portable, that you refute his sic tactics as being the only way to train for portable flying by showing the uninitiated other alternatives. Otis
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wafer kits
4 posts
Jun 25, 2007
12:37 PM
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Scott and Otis
Thanks for the kind words. I do not write a book because people with my managerial skills have no business telling more accomplished fliers what to do. While I may not agree with everything Mr. Stayer has to say, I still have to give him credit for spending so many years with a sometimes heartbreaking facet of the hobby. I have had men who were at the very top of their game give me conflicting stories about training etc. Scott, I'm not sure I understand you. You seem to think that portable fliers always fly in a defensive pattern; such is not the case! The only time my birds fly in "hawk mode" is when a threat actually exists. We are speaking here of birds that have been broken in to mobile flying. I will agree that it may be harder to get them all on the same page for competition flying. Good luck to both of you. Al
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Velo99
1194 posts
Jun 25, 2007
3:58 PM
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Tired of getting hammered by the preds?
Wanna show off your birds without having to show people where you live?
Wanna impress the guys at work?
Need to score some points with your kids cute science teacher?
Kite shcmite. I have a porto kit to take to the park.
These are a few resons to fly a portable.
The subject has been offered for consideration a few times on this forum and never seemed to take off. I think if there was ever a time the portokit was ready for blast off it is now.
I think if the right guys were to embrace this and get it going,there could be possibility to add it to the 11 bird fly.
Why not?
It could increase flyer participation, adding fundage to the kitty. It could make up for some of the ghost flyer kits that are getting ready to be eliminated. It would allow one to fly a kit in all three arenas of competetion, adding to the cumulative master flyer points.
I think I am gonna at least give it a go. 11 birds seems to be a nice number to work with.
mtc
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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Velo99
1195 posts
Jun 25, 2007
4:08 PM
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Al
Question(s). I raise my birds in a kit box.Feed and fly them from a porto box correct?
SO if I attached the portobox to the kitbox in a detachable manner and flew them from a different location frequently,they would home to the portobox?
Check this out. If I caged them where they can see the portobox and trap into it at feeding time,will this help minmize my flyaway losses and at the same time add to their training?
Do I need indie compartments in the portobox?
more to follow I am sure
ty
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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motherlodelofts
1860 posts
Jun 25, 2007
4:42 PM
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Al, I only used the hawk mode type flying as an example as other than "normal" type fly pattern.
I just can't see a kit coming out and settling down into a work mode when they are clueless to thier surroundings.
If I was one of those little turds you could bet that the only thing going through my pea brain would be "don't take da eye off da box,don't take da eye off da box" LOL
Again Al , good to see you here.
Scott
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wafer kits
5 posts
Jun 25, 2007
10:02 PM
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Attaching the portable to your kit box should work fine, in theory but I have never tried it that way. I like your idea of an 11 bird bird kit and although I am currently toying with a 20 bird kit, I found 11 to 13 birds much easier to deal with. I would train a few more than 11 to insure that you still have 11 when competition rolls around. You could play around with a few birds in a small box without interfering with your main program. I have a large cage now but flew smaller groups from wafer cages with no perches at all. Scott; the very first time in any new location it may take awhile to acclimate the birds to their new surroundings but hey will settle down nicely after they have been there 2 or 3 times. Al
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Mongrel Lofts
296 posts
Jun 26, 2007
1:06 AM
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Hi Al,
I have on several occassions seen portabel kits flown from several locations. The great western, by RK pair and Rays place in ceres.. This kit was flown from the same location for a few weeks. Still they stunk. I have never even seen what I would call a decent portable kit flown with lots of good roll. The men I seen fly kits had been working on them for a few years. The birds just didn't seam to settle down,, they seamed to me to always be in looking for the loft mode. The birds that did roll, usually rolled when coming in and I thought that made sense, as it was the one time they new where they were at, landing on the loft they feared losing. Its not hawk mode, its confused mode that ruins the portable flyer,, I have a few ideas if a guy was serious about flying Portable,, that might help one fly competitive,, but it would sure take some die hard commitment!! KGB
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ROLLERMAN
135 posts
Jun 26, 2007
2:01 PM
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When i had my potable loft my birds were trained. to respond to me more then the loft, my birds would land were ever i was.. If i was standing in the middle of a field fifty feet away from the loft they would fly to me. from the time i pulled them out of the nest at 10 days old they were hand feed then they were feed from my hand.. they knew who had there next meal, and thats the key with a portable kit feed. and tame birds no coco clocks. and i must agree with scott every time you try a new spot your playing whit there little head and they dont get a chance to relax and do there thing, ps i have taken portable kit birds a flown them out of my yard and end up seeing a whole new birds rolling inprove and so did the kitting. al if your flying your potable kit an hour thats way to long to much feed. cut down on there flying time and you mite see more roling
your names al perron lol my name is al petrone close
al
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2007 2:05 PM
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wafer kits
6 posts
Jun 26, 2007
5:44 PM
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Hi Kenny;
I remember you from the "Color Wars"....Guess there's just no hiding from you anywhere. I am not advocating pinning all your hopes of winning on a portable loft...just saying it's my own personal preference. Reasons??? How about getting to talk rollers with the general public everytime you go out instead of only seeing a judge once or twice a year? Or how about only having an occasional encounter with a BOP rather than having him waiting on your doorstep every day? Or how about being able to observe them wherever you go instead of having to wait until you get home at night? A few years ago there were a bunch of pictures in the pigeon magazine of portable lofts....never heard anymore about them. I don't know how many of these people actually flew portable kits often enough to score high in competition.....even many of our stationary fliers DQ or score low....in fact, probably most of hem do. love your sarcastic sense of humor Ken....Now if we can only get you away from those ice pigeon crosses, I'd like to hear you ideas. Al
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wafer kits
7 posts
Jun 26, 2007
5:51 PM
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Hi Al;
(hope I got the name right)....Interesting that your birds would come to you instead of the loft. That sometimes happens to me with squeakers who don't know their way around yet. Usually my birds will land where I let them out before even if I move their box a hundred feet away. I'm willing to spar with anyone who wants to pursue this thread but find that I have been monopolizing it so maybe I should back off a little. Good luck! Al
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Spud
119 posts
Jun 27, 2007
3:58 AM
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I should think that if we made "Portible Loft" a catigory in the fall fly that we would have more guys trying it and with more people working at we would come up with methods that would make birds flown in this method score higher as time went on.
Spud
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Missouri-Flyer
653 posts
Jun 27, 2007
9:17 AM
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scoring a portable kit will vary depending on the judge..One judge will give a kit 200 while the next judge will give the same kit 50..So, depending on the judge, depends on who and how points are distributed.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Spud
120 posts
Jun 27, 2007
10:07 AM
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Jerry, that's true in every fly. That's why we have one judge that judges everyone in the WC . My point is that if we had a seperate catigory for portibles we would create interest that could possibly increase participation, and increase the quality of birds flown in protable lofts. Certainly that has happened with the fall fly and the World Cup. Portable lofts would be competing against only other portable lofts.
Spud
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wafer kits
8 posts
Jun 28, 2007
1:49 PM
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Competitions among mobile fliers were held in the 70's. Bruce Cooper, Frank Picolet and Paul Bradford were involved in some of the western states. It entails a lot of long distance driving which some of us are not up to anymore. In order to facilitate portable meets, I think there would have to be more active people, living a little closer to each other, involved. The alternative would be to have everyone training from the same style box; then the birds could be shipped (like homers) to different areas. There doesn't seem to be that kind of interest among roller enthusiasts. Still it is an excellent way to promote the hobby at fairgrounds, schools etc. Al
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Richard
17 posts
Jun 28, 2007
4:52 PM
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Hi Mr Al Perron
I saw one of the best portable kits flown when you lived out East. Until the darn Red tails came in and scattered the kit. I still remember them and it was a long time ago. You and your birds impressed me.
Richard Miller
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wafer kits
9 posts
Jun 28, 2007
9:46 PM
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Hi Richard;
I remember the honor of having you judge our birds in the New England area back in the stone ages. Thanks for the compliments....I need all the help I can get. Never scored very high (yet) but received a lot of good commentary from several judges...it's a lonely road LOL Al
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Spud
121 posts
Jun 30, 2007
7:25 AM
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"What if" guys flying protables didn't all go to one place, but rather flew in their regions, put up their kits at some place in the regon where the judge is, and the kit was judged as a portable kit. No extra travel for the judge as he could view evaluate them after a local kit had flown and then the portable kit goes up. So you would have three catagories, 20 bird, 11 bird and portable. The next question is "Why bother"? The answer to that is that portable flying may be necessary with the BOP problems and zoning problems. If we start now, we can possibly develop methods and familys that fly from portables successfully.
Just an idea, but I find it interesting.
Spud
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wafer kits
10 posts
Jun 30, 2007
9:37 AM
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Hi Spud;
Great idea if you can get enough guys to fly portable in any one region. New England fliers tried it once up in Maine but there were only 3 of us and we didn't have any special category. I don't mind competing against the top fliers under thir own terms if we can get enough people to participate. Problem is that mobile kits may range out for awhile upon their first release in any area. Best to acclimate them to the terrain a couple of times first. Al
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Spud
122 posts
Jun 30, 2007
10:10 AM
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Even if you are the only guy in your region it would work, because you would be judged and your score posted in comparison with all the rest around the country. Then for the finals, same thing, one judge juding the best 20 bird kit, 11 bird kit and protable kit of each region. (Or kits is a large region). The great part is it's no extra travel for the judge. Would be interesting, and would take some time to catch on and develop specific rules for it.
Spud
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2007 10:11 AM
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Velo99
1199 posts
Jun 30, 2007
1:02 PM
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Spud,
Personally I would think an 11 bird kit would work fine
out of a portable.
Like Al said,just fly as an 11 bird kit. Pick out a spot,
and fly your birds there a few times.
That format wouldn`t require any special rules
or other considerations.
On further thought, it would actually be an advantage
to pick several spots for
different BOP/weather conditions.
Taking into consideration terrain and
wind direction versus angle of sight.
Could give enough of an advantage
to off set the portokit factor.
jmho
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2007 1:06 PM
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Spud
123 posts
Jun 30, 2007
5:28 PM
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The question seems to be "can you fly a portible kit and be competitive"? That was why I thought a seperate catagory might spark more interest until enough portable kits were flown to make them on par with then stationary counterparts.
We still need to discover the methods that work and the families of birds that "take" to this method of flying.
Spud
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