black_hawk_down
1 post
Jul 04, 2007
12:40 AM
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Hi i am wondering on your guy's opinions...what should i do??
1. Should i breed my #1 cock to my best hen from another loft??? this hen is a fast spinner like my cock but doesnt spin as deep.
2. Or should i keep on breeding on to the same hen? why you ask this hen?? because i believe it has more potent and better abilities and genes than my best hen and this hen came from the same loft as my #1 cock but i dont know if they're related in anyway. my #1 cock is black and my hen is light brown scream color for the fyi. this hen doesnt have much style and roll or anything.
this pair has only got me one yb @5 or 6 months. It's not a real good fast deep spinner like its father. i have no idea if this yb is a cock or hen. acts like a cock. planning to breed it to its mother or father.
this is my only good cock bird and i have 2 foster pairs...u guys can say i am new to rollers since i dont have many birds to breed out of and fly...i'm flying my breeders with my kit birds for crying out loud! i have been in rollers more than year now and i have been reading posts from this site and i think maybe its time that i breed best to best like you guys say..#1 or #2 wat would you do??? thanks
P.S. is it my birds or the hot weather because i only get around 5 to 10 minutes off of them?? about around the 100° F and more and really windy here. bad to fly my birds.
-Joe
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2007 1:39 AM
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Electric-man
373 posts
Jul 04, 2007
12:59 AM
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I would try best to best! Your not having much success the way your doing it and you don't even know if your current hen is related, if I'm following your post right! Try a couple rounds and fly out the young! If you get something you like, put it back on its parent maybe! All families started somewhere! JMO
Welcome to the site!
Val
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2007 1:01 AM
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trevsta65
146 posts
Jul 04, 2007
3:14 AM
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welcome pal if i was you i would try and find myself a few more stock birds to breed so you can get your numbers up. cheers trev
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Santandercol
1205 posts
Jul 04, 2007
6:33 AM
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Hey Joe,
Welcome.The YB you have probably has not yet shown it's full potential.Give it a year before you decide if it's any good or not.You could have that cock breeding with both hens if you want.Polygamous breeding.It's legal in the pigeon world.They don't have to be mormons.Lock him in with the second hen a couple days and they'll mate.Use your fosters to the max.
Those breeders are most likely too fat to want to fly long with your kitbirds and they may pull the kitbirds down early.You are taking a big chance of loosing a breeder by flying them.If the hens are eggy,they could be hurt by spinning an egg out.Can damage their oviducts.I'd keep them in locked up and pump the eggs out of them.If the kitbirds land too soon flag them up again.Good luck!!
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Kelly
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2007 6:35 AM
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nicksiders
1848 posts
Jul 04, 2007
9:00 AM
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Hey Joe,
Welcome to the best site on the internet. I hope you enjoy.
I think the common answer will always be "best to best", but I also feel in actualality there are other issues in the breeder selection issue. First of all you need to define for yourself what "best" actually is in your mind. Is it just which one rolls the deepest and all of the other performance questions or is it also other issues that have to be included like temperment or intellegence etc.
I will close in saying that my best performer is not always in my breeder loft.
Good luck to ya and again, welcome.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2007 9:02 AM
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W@yne
544 posts
Jul 04, 2007
9:57 AM
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black_hawk_down
Welcome to Tonys site. Your pairings !!!
If i was you i would ask on This forum are they any flyers in your region who have established families of birds to kindly help you out here. Starting from mix and match birds, You will have results but it will take you years to get an established family of performing birds worth watching. JMHO
PS What makes you think this hen has more potent and better abilities when it does not perform and your not 100% sure its related to the cock???
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Shaun
507 posts
Jul 04, 2007
10:51 AM
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Joe, the biggest problem you have is that it's taking you a long time to get a decent enough number of birds in the air to properly evaluate them. Best to best usually follows when someone's had the benefit of seeing many birds in the air over a lengthy time.
I used to think I had an excellent cock bird, but looking back, it's because he was the best of a bad bunch. I'm so glad I didn't use him as a foundation bird, because I would have spent a lot of time breeding sub-standard rollers.
Wayne's absolutely right; it could take you years only to find out that the birds you started with weren't much good. You also have the disadvantage of not knowing if they're from the same family. This means that when you start to breed them together, all sorts of crap could emerge.
Many would advise you to start from scratch with one family of birds. Get plenty of them and breed like buggery. Only fly out the youngsters and evaluate them for at least a year. At that point best to best would be worth a shot, or the best youngsters back to their parents.
If you're not able or prepared to do this, you should pull the cock you have from the air, because if you lose him, you're completely stuffed.
Pair him with as many hens as you can, because even if they're not displaying the goods, they might be carrying them. Then so as to get a kit of birds in the air which are of a similar age - and this isn't going to be easy with just one cock - you need to try and avoid having him stuck with one hen. Ideally, you need other pairs ready to take the fostered eggs from any hens you can get him to mate with.
Shaun
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Missouri-Flyer
682 posts
Jul 04, 2007
11:18 AM
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I smell a set-up.
Welcome Joe, are ya from Ca.?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2007 11:21 AM
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nicksiders
1849 posts
Jul 04, 2007
3:07 PM
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Jerry,
You really are a cop. I think you could sense a problem at a picnic(LOL)
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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parlorfancier916
311 posts
Jul 04, 2007
3:07 PM
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I would say try to breed a pair till you get 4 youngsters, if by chance any 1 of the youngster spins good to you then click that pair up for a little bit and see if they can develope other birds like that, if not keep on switching your birds until you have a pair that produces the majority of birds that you would keep.
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Missouri-Flyer
683 posts
Jul 04, 2007
4:29 PM
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Hey Nick,
If it smells like fish, taste like fish, then the chances are it's.....FISH...LOL
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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black_hawk_down
3 posts
Jul 04, 2007
11:49 PM
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yea im from california. how were the fireworks?? well about the hen, i think maybe since it came from the same loft as my cock then it might have potential genes like my cock but probably not. i do not have a clue if they're related. the guy that i got it from might had several strains and he told me my cock was a cross from two good strains. you guys are right. the birds i have now arent much good. acquiring better birds have not been sucessful either.
Shaun, if you didnt breed from the best of a bad bunch then what did you breed from? im pretty sure my #1 cock is the best of a bad bunch also. lol. thanks guys i'll take ur guys words for it. i'll pull him out of the air and breed as much as i can. it's the only good cock bird that i have and i dont want to lose him. i'll use fosters to the max. more advice is appreciated because i really need ur guys opinions and knownledge. thanks. i agree, this is the best site on the internet!
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Shaun
508 posts
Jul 05, 2007
4:08 AM
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Joe, I ran two projects side-by-side. The cock which I had thought was good, produced about 10 youngsters over a few months. They were all garbage. It took half a year to find that out, which was all time wasted.
Meanwhile, I could see that the whole family, which this cock was from, were poor, so I then invested heavily in birds from one of the UK's top flyers and kept the originals as fosters.
Two years on and having produced over 100 youngsters, I'm only now finding a handful of specific birds which I'll be using to breed, both on both a best-to-best and 'back to the parents' basis.
Starting off with sub-standard birds is a road to nowhere. If I were you, I'd be making all efforts to track down some decent rollers. There's no harm in experimenting with what you've got, but their background is so uncertain that you could be very frustrated with the outcome. Better to keep them as fosters and start again with a solid family.
Shaun
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W@yne
545 posts
Jul 05, 2007
9:46 AM
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Shaun
Great post Shaun
Ive been there and worn the T shirt your absolutely right. I wasted 6 years dabbling with birds trying to produce a strain worth watching from birds with very little history only to get more grey hairs on my head through it.
(It was a good job i was good looking to hide the fact Lol.)
Frustration was my only outcome time is precious.
Black hawk down are these birds for personal pleasure or you thinking of competition in the future, If for your own pleasure i don't see any harm with dabbling with your birds but don't expect too much from them. If your thinking ahead to fly in competition listen to Shaun hes dead right at what hes saying.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Shaun
509 posts
Jul 05, 2007
11:52 AM
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Hi, Wayne. I bet this weather is getting you down. I'm supposed to be going camping when the kids break up from school.
The UK has had a month of rain and wind, so roller flying is very difficult - and it's just when there's loads of youngsters which should be out twice a day. I keep letting the birds out when there's a break in the clouds, but 5 minutes later it's chucking it down again and the kit is blown all over the sky. I'm standing there in the rain, wanting them to come in, rattling a corn tin which they can't hear and seeing them trying to land, but being blown up again.
I think the age you start with rollers probably has a say in how long you're prepared to wait for things to happen. I can see that young people probably aren't in any rush, but I started at 48 and now I'm 50, I've come to realise just how long things take. No-one should be looking to cut corners, as rollers are effectively an apprenticeship. However, there are areas where you can benefit from the trials and tribulations of others and put them to your advantage.
Shaun
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black_hawk_down
6 posts
Jul 14, 2007
4:02 PM
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i have more questions...if i breed the cock to it's daughter would you think it will produce good birds like its father??? so you guys are saying that you'll never produce good birds that came from a bad family of birds???
Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2007 4:04 PM
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W@yne
562 posts
Jul 14, 2007
10:32 PM
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Joe,
Why don't you purchase a couple of pair from Tony, This way you will know your history also Tony could help you when pairing your birds together, Like i said before if you want pleasure flying then go ahead there's nothing wrong in pairing father to daughter. If your after competition flying in the future i think your on a road to nowhere.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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