Missouri-Flyer
732 posts
Jul 11, 2007
5:49 AM
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What are the differences as far as the health,flying of these 2 grains as it relates to the roller? Is one better to use than the other, and if so, what justifies it as being the better grain? I am only interested in information as it relates to kitbirds. Thanks
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Santandercol
1225 posts
Jul 11, 2007
6:45 AM
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Jerry,
Can answer part of your ?,,Wheat is 17.9% protein-1.6%crude fat.Milo is 8.9% protein-3%fat and high in carbohydrate.So,milo it seems is more of a filler to make them feel full.My kitbird mix is 50/50 wheat milo.
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Kelly
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Missouri-Flyer
735 posts
Jul 11, 2007
7:09 AM
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Thanks Kel,
so one could assume given those numbers that in order to take fat off of birds, you could use the milo for a given time frame, then switch to a 50/50 blend, or strait wheat?
How does Milo affect fly times versus wheat?
For the past 4 days, my birds haven't been getting past 100 feet elevation. The past 2 days have been nice with very low humidity. I usually fly early morning when the temps are in the 60's, so I dont believe that temps are a factor. These same birds usually fly at 500 to 700 feet and for 30 to 45 minutes..I am stumped!
These are for the most part 2007 birds born Jan.,Feb.,March....I am feeding mix at 1 1/2 tspn per bird..I have tried to cut back feed, use milo only, use wheat only, and same result.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2007 8:27 AM
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Richard
27 posts
Jul 11, 2007
10:11 AM
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Missouri
Wheat alone will make them fly faster and higher.
Milo will make the roll, and loose weight plus other things.
Learn the make up of each grain and then adjust the percentage of each grain according to what you want your birds to do. remember one day will never give you a true reading. Same with removing the water as we talked about before. One day means nothing.
Richard
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Richard
28 posts
Jul 11, 2007
10:13 AM
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Kelly gave you the right start. Find out what is in each seed and then go from there.
Richard
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1438 posts
Jul 11, 2007
10:16 AM
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Don't F@$k with the young bird feed!!!! Okay, now that i got that off my chest. Seriously, don't mess with the young bird feed. They will go through spurts where they will do some strange things. If they suddenly aren't flying the time and look labored, put them on aureomycin for 7+ days. You will be surprised at how well they will fly after being on aureomycin. Again, don't go jackin' with the young bird feed unless you are absolutely certain of what the results will be and how to deal with those results. Just feed them more and give them a few days off from flying. Two or three days rest can change a kit dramatically, both young and old.
Kelly, here the wheat can be all over the board, from 7 percent protein all the way up to big fat peanut sized 14+ percent protein. No two bags appear to be the same here.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2007 10:17 AM
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Santandercol
1228 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:11 AM
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Bri,yeah definately.My YBs get a good rich mix till at least 6 months of age.3 wheat,1 milo,1 peas,1 safflower,mineral grit oyster shell.Funny things YBs do allright tho.Have 3 red checks from the 1st round that were bumping and crashing a bit then when at 6months I put them with a few older birds from 06 and cut their feed to wheat/milo,straightened 'em right out but now the roll has slowed down.They got lots of time yet to mature tho.
Cheers,,,,ooops.Not rum 30 yet.
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Kelly
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Electric-man
393 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:19 AM
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Jerry, mine are the same age and there going through some some weird stages too! Mine are flying awful low lately too! A couple of weeks ago, they wouldn't fly but maybe 10 min. I uped their feed about two tsp total! Two days later their flying an hr, cut their feed back to normal a week ago and their still flying an hour! Starting to see lots of feathers on the bottom of the box, maybe the molts starting here! I'm gonna leave the feed alone for right now, it seemed to be the right amount till a couple of weeks ago! If you figure something out though, let me know!
Val
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Richard
31 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:27 AM
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Mc.
I was thinking we were talking about old birds. I though every one knew not to cut the young birds feed as they are still growing and producing new feathers at the same time.
They are fed all together different that mature rollers.
Richard
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Richard
32 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:27 AM
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Mc.
I was thinking we were talking about old birds. I though every one knew not to cut the young birds feed as they are still growing and producing new feathers at the same time.
They are fed all together different that mature rollers.
Richard
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Missouri-Flyer
741 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:29 AM
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Thanks Val,
I usually keep all my birds on a commercial mix until 5 to 7 months, depending on how they are doing. I tried the milo and wheat on these since they were acting their youth..I leave mix in with them at all times when maturing.. They will come around eventually, or down the road one.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1440 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:42 AM
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Jerry, a good rule of thumb is this. Don't mess with their feed (generally) until they are on the down swing of their first molt (molting from juvenile feathers into adult feathers). One thing about young bird kits under the age of six months is they will stretch out one direction from what seems normal, then come back to home base, then bend out another direction, eventually always coming back to home base. If you don't make any changes, you will still see changes in their fly time, height, etc, etc, but it will always eventually return to normalcy without you making a drastic change to them. Once they get fully feathered in adult feathers, that's generally all out the window and it becomes time to keep your finger on the pulse and begin to "manage" them. As every month goes by, particularly past 12 months of age, having both hands on the leash becomes extremely important.
Around the time they are finishing up their molt into the adult feathering, then you can play around with the feed some to get a feel for who is doing what. When I have a kit where the birds are at about the 5-6 month stage, I'll hold the feed back from any birds not flipping and keep them on straight wheat for a few days. I'm doing this to jar them and see how they are going to react, to see if I can break their control and entice them to allow the roll to develop. But I can't do this for long periods and certainly not to any birds that are already spinning. This has been such a dry year here that I have kept most of my young kits on wheat/mix combinations. The days when the humidity is in the single digits, only wheat in order to keep them from flying over an hour. My birds do well on mostly wheat with some mix added in waves.
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fhtfire
1059 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:57 AM
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My kit birds fly on a mix that I make during the "fly season and summer" commercial mix during the real cold days in Winter!....the get 1 part 28%pellet to 5 parts 50/50 wheat milo and 1.5 parts sauflower(during moult) or 1 part sauflower regular....that is my "kit Mix" took me 1.5 years to find the right parts to mix.
As far as young birds go....Keep the mix to them and feed them more than you think....my old birds get more mix during the moult...the performance suffers...but who cares.
Brian is right..do mess with the feed on the young birds...let them get good and strong and healthy. They will go through different stages....like my birds..usually at the 7 month mark..for about 2 weeks....the are on fire...but it is an act of god....nothing that I am doing...wish they stayed like that..>LOL.
ONe mus also remember...that it is not just feed that keeps the birds down....there are a lot of things that play into it...hell...one "leader Bird" can keep the whole team down if he is having a bad day....the whole team could just need a couple days rest...even as young birds...or meds..like Brian said...I usually shoot them...RED CELL and electolytes for a couple days...and they perk right up!!...it could just be the weather....things going on that we do not sense...Pigeons have excellent hearing...so they could be reacting to something that is MILES away....so
If you change the feed and that does not work...then really start looking at the kit as a whole and see if it could be a problem bird...I have removed one bird from a team and changed the whole dynamics of the team to the positive...just one damn bird...and this bird was not such a problem that it was really obvious...it just flew a tad bit fast and would not climb and would keep the kit down...the change in the kit was almost at the snap of the fingers.
As far as MILO...it is more of a filler...very hollow seed....makes the birds think they have food...really slows the wing beat down....I would NOT feed just milo for an excended period to break down the birds...use wheat...does the same thing..but a litte slower and has more goodies...man if I fed milo for a week..on day 4 my birds would be bouncing off houses. The wheat gives them some good energy.....I only feed straight wheat while preparing for a comp and throw the 50/50 at toward the end of the training closer to the date....to take the "strength" off the birds...or as one would say....slow them the F*&% down...it is all about timing too...to late and no affect...to early and you will have crap on fly day..weak sloppy rolls....Just use it as a tool in conjunction with the mix....During the maintanence seasons...I fly Mix....Rest w/mix...Rest with Wheat/Milo...if the birds are to fat...and the moult is over...they only get mix on the fly day..and 50/50 on the rest days...especially during the summer...real hot..less feed.....
During the Winter...I switch to the comercial mix with Popcorn for all my birds....to keep them warm and keep there crops full during the cold days.//// Anyway...I rambled
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Missouri-Flyer
742 posts
Jul 11, 2007
12:45 PM
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Thanks Brian,Paul
Informative as always!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Santandercol
1235 posts
Jul 11, 2007
11:00 PM
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Yeah Brian and Paul thanks.----------
Kelly
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Electric-man
394 posts
Jul 12, 2007
1:09 PM
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Feeding is confusing! My older kit is Jan/Feb birds! I feed about 2/3 cup wheat, 2/3 cup milo for 18 birds. They usually fly 30-45 min. I have about four families in this kit, and should be some good birds in there, at least some! Most of them aren't doing anything until they start coming down to eat, then about half of them start hitting some really nice rolls! Most of them start tailriding early and act like their really gonna come on and then they will flip for a couple of weeks and then stiffen up!
Be patient,or switch to straight wheat and stimulate them, or what! Any suggestions! I'm fixin to go off on them!LOL
Val
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kcfirl
138 posts
Jul 12, 2007
1:18 PM
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Get some new birds! Seriously, don't expect too much out of 6 month old birds. If they where hatched Feb 1 and were weaned April 1, they've only been flying 3 1/2 months.
I would give them better feed and keep flying every day until I see them breaking pretty well, then go to every other day and maybe feed wheat on the days off.
Ken Firl
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Ballrollers
799 posts
Jul 12, 2007
1:21 PM
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I'm with Brian and Paul....just stay the course with the young birds. They'll snap out of it. Just make sure you don't get them fat. It's an easy mistake to make when you are trying to make sure they get enough (and they know how to beg). If they get heavy at all they'll refuse to go up.
Cliff
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kcfirl
139 posts
Jul 12, 2007
1:22 PM
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Get some new birds! Seriously, don't expect too much out of 6 month old birds. If they where hatched Feb 1 and were weaned April 1, they've only been flying 3 1/2 months.
I would give them better feed and keep flying every day until I see them breaking pretty well, then go to every other day and maybe feed wheat on the days off.
Now, if you get to October and they're still not rolling, then think about getting some better stock.
Ken Firl
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Dooleys rollers
6 posts
Jul 12, 2007
1:47 PM
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Val this is your coach lol i would feed them a mix feed as young birds a (wheat, milo,sunflowers seed,al-witer peas,canadian peas, oats,gran sorgum,)this well help them grow and develope strong bones and strong feathers they will need this .as the roll they will come into it some sooner then others as they get older you can mess with there feed but as young they need all that feed they can get if they never roll come and get some of my so yours will roll lol. hope this helps and this hot summer months will hurt there fly time.
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