Gregg
105 posts
Jul 18, 2007
7:57 AM
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I posted this idea on Earl's list last night. I am willing to take on this challenge and see if we as a hobby can be of some financial assistance to those who have not been as fortunate and find themselves in an awkward situation. Below are the posts that I hope will get the ball rolling. I am reluctant to go into details of who, what or why. We all know what has happened to some of our fellow fanciers. You can contact me at:
Gregg Sale
1045 W. Dakota St.
Spring Valley, Illinois 61362-1605
vgs20@insightbb.com
We are going to do this. I am hoping for 100% percent participation whether it is a little or a lot, it should hurt your pocketbook in that you don't go out for that steak dinner this week.
Thanks in advance,
Gregg.
Robert.
We are just getting this idea up on it's feet. Last night was the first that I brought it up anywhere. I will try to get something formulated within the next day or so. I will then drop off the planet for a couple of days as I am having back surgery. Should be home by Sunday night but be on some good drugs for a day or two.
After that, yes, I want to see this process proceed. I will open a bank account sometime between now and tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully I will then be able to say "send money".
Until then I will ask all of you to pass this information around to all of the roller lists.
Do not go into great detail as to what this is for. We don't want to have someone think that we are condoning anything. What we are doing is establishing a defense fund for certain members of our hobby who do not have the wherewithal to afford the situation they find themselves in. It is friends helping friends. Let's leave it that way as I don't want to become a part of the legal battles that may be shaping up now.
I just think it is about time that we all sit back and wonder what it is like to be in their shoes. It would be great for their psyche just to realize that there are a great number of fanciers out there that care and are willing to do something. This is our way to do something and let them know we care.
I've included the original posts below. Spread the word. Post this anywhere you think it will do some good.
Gregg Sale
1045 W. Dakota St.
Spring Valley, Illinois 61362-1605
vgs20@insightbb.com
Robert;
Contact either Cliff or Gregg on this list. Both have some ideas how to proceed. I am on record to help either of them if they want to get the ball rolling.......Thanks! Al
Butch,
This is merely a family spat and is inherent to any and all email lists. Peoples opinions are going to clash. We are reasonably civil here now compared to some of the past posts. Use to be some good old knock down, drag out, mud hole wrestling.
I'll make you a prediction. Life will go on and we will all still have our rollers, our hobby and our club.
So far the only ones to continue posting are Brian and Mitch. I don't know who needs what kind of financial aid, but I know damn well that I am willing to help. If no one else will volunteer to set up an account for these gentlemen, then hello, I will.
I will need someone to step up and act as an oversight. I don't want total control of those funds. And I will need three others to help serve as a committee to determine need. I don't want a large committee that will be mired in B.S. and politics. I want five of us so that there will be the possibility of a majority vote on all issues.
You also have to know that maybe that makes us targets. I would really like to see a couple of long time roller fancier coupled with a couple of newer members. And make sure your back yard is clean.
O.K. I stuck my feet in the water. Anyone care to join me. And I will expect you all to dig deep. If this is going to work, it can't be half-assed. Any funds not distributed will be donated to a charity supported by roller fanciers.
Gregg.
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Electric-man
410 posts
Jul 18, 2007
9:33 AM
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I agree! I feel for these guys, I really do! I feel they are taking the heat for alot of others! Due to financial problems (my wife), I am refinancing my life right now but I will still get a little somethin, somethin sent in! Try to again in a paycheck or two!
Val
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W@yne
571 posts
Jul 18, 2007
10:00 AM
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Good deal Gregg glad you got the balls to start the ball rolling Well done.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1458 posts
Jul 18, 2007
10:15 AM
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Hey Gregg, way to go in stepping up to help others not in the situation to.
***HOWEVER***: Ahhh, raising funds and distributing them, if it were only that simple...Check with your taxman and make sure that people sending you money will not count as income for you (they way you describe the checking account, it probably will). If you are having health problems that require surgery, will this "income" hurt your benefits and raise your personal income taxes?
You may have to setup some kind of charitable entity and incorporate it. I would advise that you contact an attorney to ensure you don't get into trouble trying to do something good.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Gregg
106 posts
Jul 18, 2007
10:49 AM
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Tony,
Thanks for the advice. I want this to remain a good old boy program. I've given it a lot of thought and feel that it has to be as simple as possible. At first I felt a committee would be needed to deal with the distribution. On second thought, I feel that whatever is raised will be distributed equally amongst those in the situation. It will be an honor thing for those that do not need our donations to refuse same and allow it to go to others who have a more urgent financial need.
I will seek the advice of a lawyer before I deposit any money into any account. I am still going to want someone else to be on the account with me as I do not want even the thought of anything underhanded to enter this program.
All that being said, I still want this to happen. I have no illusions that we are going to raise thousands but I hope to see some respectable amounts donated for what I believe is the right thing to do. All I can say again is: "Think about how it would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you had the problem." Then reach deep with in reason.
You can begin sending checks to:
D fund c/o Gregg Sale
1045 W. Dakota St.
Spring Valley, Illinois 61362-1605.
If there is a snafu that makes this impossible to do, I will ante up the postage to return any and all checks to the donors. Please be so kind as to mark "donation to D Fund" in the lower left corner.
We can make this happen!!!!!!!!
Hope you don't mind Tony, for this cause, I am also putting this out to Earl's list and for anyone to copy and send on to all of the lists.
Thank All of You in Advance.
Gregg.
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J_Star
1080 posts
Jul 20, 2007
5:12 AM
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What is the goal in $$ you are trying to get to? If you publish that, maybe others will try to get you there!!
Jay
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George Ruiz
319 posts
Jul 20, 2007
9:21 AM
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How about a speacial Defence Fund auction ?
I am willing to donate a 11 bird kit or 3 pair of Proven breeders to a auction ,I think people would be more willing to Donate if they get something back (birds ).
George
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Gregg
109 posts
Jul 23, 2007
7:14 AM
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Hey Guys,
I am not going to set a limit on the amount of money we wish to raise. I am in no position to run an on-line auction, just don't have the computer skills to get it done. If you desire to put a kit up for auction on the list and donate the proceeds, they would be very welcome. I have been in contact with a lawyer and so far all of the answers have been positive. He is checking out the federal side for me now, after that I figure this program to be greenlighted and off to the races. I am willing to put three to six months or more if necessary into raising funds for these guys. I am sure that many do not have the financial resources to handle this situation without a huge strain on their family. This is about helping out another roller fancier. It has nothing to do with the NBRC nor does it have anything to do with condoning the situation that lead to their predicament. It is simply about helping another human being, one of our own. I don't know how many are charged as of this time but I know that if in the same position, I would sure appreciate my brothers that stepped up in my hour of need.
I don't care if they are from a high class neighborhood or from the wrong side of the tracks. They are fellow roller breeders. I can't make it any planer than that.
Imagine how much good we could do if everyone donated just a twenty dollar bill. If we could get the word out to all of the roller fancy and get full participation, this would be saying a lot to the world that we are good people that take care of our own.
I'm probably starting to sound redundant so I'll shut up for now. All I ask is that you take my address and spread the word to every roller fancier that you know.
Thanks,
Gregg.
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kcfirl
146 posts
Jul 23, 2007
9:29 AM
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Guys,
if I ever get arrested for any actions having to do with my birds, I don't want anyone to feel obligated to help me.
I will take full responsibility for my own actions and expect pothers to do the same.
Many of the guys arrested afre my friends and will remain so. That does not mean that I agree or support everything they do. Nor does it mean I am willing to help pay for their legal defense.
Now, if the NBRC were up for hiring a lobbyist, or pitching in for one, tohelp change some of these ridiculous laws we have on the books, I'm all ears.
Ken firl
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1460 posts
Jul 23, 2007
11:00 AM
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Thanks for letting us know exactly where you stand Ken.
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Electric-man
429 posts
Jul 23, 2007
11:23 AM
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I feel in this first offense, we should help out our brothers! Any infraction from now on, your on your own! Now that we know their gonna play hard ball, we all know the results for our actions!
The only two that I knew were BMC and Ivan! They helped me out several times though with advise when I needed it! They have helped many, many others too! Can't believe anyone would turn their backs on them! They helped me, and I plan on doing something back! Thats just the way I roll!
Val
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2007 2:41 PM
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J_Star
1084 posts
Jul 23, 2007
11:35 AM
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I only know BMC from this site only but I am willing to help!!! It is only money...it comes and goes but remember that it is very hard to make a good friend but friendship easily can be lost.
If you have nothing nice to say, please don't say any thing at all. You will regret saying what you said down the road.
Jay
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2007 6:19 AM
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J_Star
1085 posts
Jul 23, 2007
11:51 AM
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BMC,
No need to debate it on the net. Keep quite for now and you will know your friends soon enough. They are trying to get you guys where it hurts the most, your wallet. Don't be surprised if the prosecution will try to convince the judge that you guys need to get out of pigeons for reduced fine. And possibly be a line item in the plea bargain.
Jay
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2007 6:21 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1468 posts
Jul 23, 2007
1:15 PM
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"(You are guilty of speeding when you are caught speeding, not when you have a car that can accel to felonious speeds or when you think about driving at such speeds. , or even trying to if you do not succeed.)"
No, you are guilty when you plea, pay the fine or do jail time. JMO
"You cannot be cited for thinking about going fast"
I am no attorney (thank goodeness) but thinking about criminal activity and planning it is conspiracy isn't it?
"...or even trying to if you do not succeed.)"
So if I try to rob a bank and fail, I am not guilty?
I don't want to try it! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1462 posts
Jul 23, 2007
3:06 PM
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Val, I removed my response and of course everyone appreciates the concern and prayers of others in this hobby, yours included.
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Gregg
110 posts
Jul 25, 2007
6:49 PM
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Gentlemen,
If I can take you away from your frustrations for a moment. My lawyer has advised me to proceed with the d fund for the benefit of those that are in a predicament. We are not condoning nor passing judgement. We are trying to alleviate the financial hardship that faces many of our roller brethern. Again, I ask you to mentally put yourself in their position, wondering how will I hold my head up in public, how will I keep my family together, are my fellow roller fanciers supporting me?
This is a way to do a kindness to those who have been unfortunately targeted.
Please show some compassion for your fellow roller friends. Please donate according to your means. Some day you may be in a similar situation. This is no time for feuds, politics or one up man ship. This is a time to step up and help. If this helps one man keep his family together, it will be well worth it. And I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your generosity in advance. And thanks to Al Perron and Doug Snyder who did not wait but sent checks in good faith.
You may make out and send all checks to:
D fund c/o Gregg Sale
1045 W. Dakota St.,
Spring Valley, Illinois 61362-1605
This fund will be for those who have been indicted up to this point in time or who are indicted because of actions up to this time. After this, we will assume that you chose not to learn any lessons from the recent events, in which case, you will be on your own.
All funds will be disseminated on an equal basis. I will contact all and ask them if they have a need. It will be a point of honor for those who can afford this situation without any help to refuse that help inorder to increase the help going to those in serious need.
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Missouri-Flyer
768 posts
Jul 25, 2007
8:02 PM
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Dang Tony,
Those were some serious thoughts. You write just like you sound in person...LOL
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1477 posts
Jul 25, 2007
9:41 PM
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Hey Jerry, I hope you meant that to be a good thing! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Electric-man
443 posts
Jul 27, 2007
7:03 AM
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I mailed a donation yesterday, Gregg! I will "try" to do this each month that the fund is active! Please pass my prayers along to these guys and their innicent families!
Val
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Gregg
114 posts
Jul 27, 2007
7:10 AM
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Val,
Your an inspiration. I am going to donate(pay) my small legal fees and put fifty in there for the time being. Hopefully I can put more in there a bit later but I am not working right now so it can't be a huge amount right of the bat.
Thank You,
Gregg.
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J_Star
1093 posts
Jul 27, 2007
10:33 AM
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So, from the post above, you are starting to take donation. Thnaks.
Jay
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1498 posts
Jul 27, 2007
10:36 AM
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Hey Gregg, I will have my accountant (okay Joni) send a check for a modest amount. Keep up the good work!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Missouri-Flyer
776 posts
Jul 27, 2007
2:06 PM
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always a good thing Tony.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Gregg
124 posts
Jul 29, 2007
1:43 PM
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Yes, we are accepting donations. Irrespective of my mouth, please don't let it influence you in helping your fellow rollermen.
d fund c/o Gregg Sale
1045 W. Dakota St.,
Spring Valley, Illinois, 61362-1605
Please step up and help. This isn't about me or any one else, it is about helping a fellow roller fancier. When it comes to this kind of thing, I believe it is something we have to do.
Thanks,
Gregg.
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