Ballrollers
811 posts
Jul 25, 2007
7:05 PM
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The entire thread "NBRC Needs New Leadership" started by Billings in a blatant attack on the NBRC and its president is being used publically in various mediums to discredit the NBRC and rollermen even more. Gee thanks, Ken.
Cliff
Read it and weep.
www.birddigi scoping.com/ blog.html
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classicpony
257 posts
Jul 25, 2007
7:14 PM
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I was thinking of joining the NBRC but with all the members fighting on Earls List, I ask myself why? Do I want to join a club of discontent? Think I will just wait awhile more, it's not costing me anything. I won't join a club fighting. I'll just wait till the dust has settled over the BOP issue. Then look at the club joining again.
Jim
@thebirdhouse
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2007 7:17 PM
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nicksiders
1930 posts
Jul 25, 2007
7:30 PM
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Jim,
You need to join.......the problem is a shared problem. It is worth it and I urge everyone who has A roller to join. Don't find any of those silly reasons that some people have not to.
We are all roller freaks!
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Nick
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classicpony
258 posts
Jul 25, 2007
8:49 PM
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Nick,
I will join someday but after all the fighting among it's members is over. The dust will clear someday. I hate it when that happens, all the calling members names that I would not want any young kids to hear at my house. They seem to be the first to say how they are GOOD members and promote the pigeon hobby & image(but not there own in this case.) I have just gotten discussed with them all.... YES it's getting old and really fast. This has consumed a few members, making the rest of us choke on there daily gloom and doom messages, trying to think of ideas to trick anyone that might listen into what they say as being the truth. Blaming anyone and everyone for problems or problems of the pigeon club... THE BLAME GAME! Why should I join something like that?? I can stay home and watch TV and see just a good almost every night.
Jim
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nicksiders
1933 posts
Jul 25, 2007
8:54 PM
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Jim,
It is the club that is important and not the individual members. The best thing the club can do is to grow in the number of memberships. The more people; the more we have to share; to give; to recieve.
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Nick
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Mongrel Lofts
304 posts
Jul 25, 2007
9:08 PM
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Cliff,
I wrote that after seeing the NBRC dragged down because our president is indicted on BOP charges on FOX news! The media is using it to drag the NBRC down on international news. Saying the NBRC says they don't support the killing of BOP but their president is indited for that very thing. He needs to step down so the NBRC can start rebuilding! So the NBRC can say what they do and do what they say! You can blame me for pointing out the facts! You can't blame me for the fact that what I'm saying is true! Jaun is the president of the NBRC, our national roller club. As long as he is pres, every time the BOP issue comes up on the news anywhere, so will the NBRC and its President being indited on BOP charges.. That's bad for the NBRC every time no matter how you look at it. Its a fact. Blame me if you like, but it won't change that FACT! KGB
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1464 posts
Jul 25, 2007
9:20 PM
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Jim, the "in-fighting" you are referring to is amongst less than one percent of the membership. Their shared opinions are not a reflection of the membership as a whole. Join the club, separate the wheat from the chaff and enjoy the good spirit that the NBRC provides in this hobby. Don't let internet comments disuade you from becoming a member.
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wafer kits
23 posts
Jul 25, 2007
9:57 PM
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Jin;
Join the NBRC buddy...it's the best game in town! Just delete foul-mouthed posts because they don't know how to express themselves. If your children see something objectionable use that as an example of how not to act among decent people. Many friendly (believe it or not) and knowledgeable persons make up the core of this club. Al
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Ballrollers
814 posts
Jul 26, 2007
5:59 AM
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Kenny,
I can't say that I disagree with you on the facts. But do you think Juan this is going to make resign, against the recommendation of his attorney, potentially damaging his own defense, when he only has a few months left? All you are doing is providing ammo for the other side to use against us. And as you read on this site, the controversy also keeps members from joining and re-newing. This is not going to help the NBRC or the hobby in any way.
Cliff
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Otis
45 posts
Jul 26, 2007
6:27 AM
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Cliff, Do you really think this string from this web-site will be admissable in a court of law? This string nor site has any connection with the NBRC. What this does, is give uninformed so-caled bird lovers with Blogs a chance to show just how juvenile, misguided and uninformed they are.Free speech is still a right in the US. I happen to think the average person that gives a hoot and reads from these strings will delve further into the site to gain a thorough understanding of just what were all about and the perils we face to continue our hobby. Now is not a time to panic - open discussion is enlightening and therapeautic! JMHO, Otis
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Ballrollers
816 posts
Jul 26, 2007
7:45 AM
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Otis,
Whether it is admissable is irrelevant. That was not my point. But if Juan resigned or was ousted by the NBRC, it may look like he is guilty and hurt his case. When comments on this site get used by our foes against us, you may be correct and people may really delve into the site and learn the real truth about the roller hobby.... in depth. I happen to believe those folks are few and far between, however. Most will read only the thread that is being used by the source to substantiate the distorted image of us that it wishes to portray. Do we need positive PR? Absolutely! Do we need to educate the public? Absolutely! Are we frustrated because neither are happening at the moment? Absolutely! I'm all for the numerous positive discussions on these lists about what is going on in our hobby and with the breeding and training of our birds. My concern is for the tone and substance of the thread Billings started on this and other internet lists, and other publicity stunts that are now being used against us. Yes free sspeech is a right. We can say all the dumb things we want....which is exactly why we are in this predicament over BOP to begin with There is no panic from me, my friend, and like many, my patience is wearing thin over the inaction. I just think we need to outsmart them and use our heads a little more, rather than our mouths. We are not very good at that, it seems.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2007 8:00 AM
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Huey
58 posts
Jul 26, 2007
7:52 AM
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Jim, if you wait till you find a perfect club, one that never has issues, then you'll probably never join.
I support Juan Staying as president. I believe its the right thing to do. I don't believe it hurts the NBRC. If anything it will make us stronger.
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Otis
46 posts
Jul 26, 2007
8:29 AM
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Cliff, Used against us? I still contend that it is free speech that has no bearing on the upcoming litagation. Yes, I agree some banter may have a damaging effect on the impression those that we wish to have a positive view of our hobby will have, we will never sway thier already made up minds towards our plight no matter what is said. As for discussions of BOP, I contend all should refrain from such, as we can not win in that stacked deck situation. Billings rants won't change any views that aren't already formed. Let's cut to the chase...what do you really think we should do? Roll-up and close all roller lists, websites and disappear as if we've never existed. As for me, I think I'll just quiet down like you say and just talk about feeding, flying and medication...how's that! Your friend, Otis
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Ballrollers
818 posts
Jul 26, 2007
9:13 AM
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Otis,
I applaud your decision, my friend. By the way, I believe that there are many opinions about us that we can change, especially those that are based on distorted information. Once some of them learn that we don't breed birds with epilepsy etc., and learn what we are really all about, they will change their minds.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2007 9:17 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1484 posts
Jul 26, 2007
9:54 AM
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“When comments on this site get used by our foes against us,…”
Hey Cliff, investigations of people who were busted were allegedly done so by their own admissions on tape or to an undercover agent, nothing in our discussions is gonna convict anyone of anything, too late, they already did that themselves.
“Most will read only the thread that is being used by the source to substantiate the distorted image of us that it wishes to portray”
So what are you saying, those of us who did nothing wrong should NOT speak up to defend ourselves or voice our thoughts and opinions because we are supposed to simply trust the so-called leadership of the club to do the right thing?
Aren’t they the ones that through their silence and lack of smart club policy regarding the biggest issue that many roller fanciers face (bop) brought this on? I don’t trust their judgment anymore based on my reading of the last bulletin and what has been shared with me by my contacts.
This whole situation is an ugly mess and is going to get worse IF before it ever gets better. Sad, sad ,sad.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Velo99
1235 posts
Jul 26, 2007
6:56 PM
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Cliff,
Just what does this have to do with the best interests of the club?
"But if Juan resigned or was ousted by the NBRC, it may look like he is guilty and hurt his case."
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
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Donny James
10 posts
Jul 26, 2007
8:42 PM
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hay list,
i think everyone in the nbrc should resign and put new people in office and all the bs will stop.............donny james
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1467 posts
Jul 26, 2007
9:45 PM
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Y'all just need to chill out. Save the energy for something else. Its an election year and new officers will be voted on in due time, your voting power being the most productive means of adminstering the changes you seek. Stop badgering the current. Instead be proactive in soliciting the people you think will do the job you would like to see done.
PS-Otis, when this is done, I can show you page after page after page from this web site in the two-inch thick evidence. There is nothing free about free speech.
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Otis
47 posts
Jul 27, 2007
8:15 AM
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Hey Mac, Big brother is watching huh? For just the information you think "they" need, that's just what it'll be .....page after page after page! It's not always what you say ....it's what you do! But you know that! Been where you're heading and it sucks!
p.s. that's all-quiet as it's kept! Best of luck, Otis
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2007 8:24 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1493 posts
Jul 27, 2007
9:24 AM
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"PS-Otis, when this is done, I can show you page after page after page from this web site in the two-inch thick evidence. There is nothing free about free speech."
Brian, so what? People have the freedom to say what they want. If they admit to or allude to their doing something possibly illegal on a a public forum, then that is their own responsibility.
You can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater either. Do it and see what happens. With "free speech" comes responsibility for what you say.
The policy of this site has been to not harm bop. Period. I have said it many times, and have even removed threads from time to time on your recommendation which I have appreciated.
However, I am no ones momma or attorney. If we have your momma or attorney go through every post, guess what? There would be no All Roller Talk.
No one is forced to post, if your own words led to legal problems then who's responsibility is that?
But don't think for a second that I am responsible for what you or others post, which could seem to be the underlying message in your quote above.
If you got something to show us, then show it now, otherwise, it is YOU, by saying that there are pages of info from this site in the evidence, who is trying to squelch the speech on this forum.
If a person posts responsibly and follows the Posting Policy, no one should ever have a problem.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1471 posts
Jul 27, 2007
6:52 PM
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Who pissed in your cereal Tony. The "page after page after page isn't about me Tony, its about A WHOLE LOTTA PEOPLE here. I won't name any names because that wouldn't be fair. These were from years ago when related topics would get pretty carried away as you well know. My comments in those pages is pretty worthless really, so don't go pointing fingers at me brother. I'm simply pointing out to Otis that what is said on here is watched just was it was years ago. As I said, it is free speech, but that doesn't make it free.
Since you are feeling pissy, your move.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1504 posts
Jul 27, 2007
7:02 PM
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Hey Brian, you pissed in my cereal, I count twice where you mention pages and pages of stuff from this site in the evidence.
Like I said, so what?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Otis
48 posts
Jul 27, 2007
7:25 PM
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Guys, As Gregg said in another string..."To ask anyone on this or any list to be quiet is total BS"! At first I went along with the be quiet until all cools down, then as less and less direct talk to the membership as to just why we should quiet down, like a thief in the night, of which I, am not, It has become quite evident that there seems to be a bonfide divide between the EC and the membership of the NBRC. I just received my bulletin and along with the keep quiet bantor comes what seems like individual protection being more important than club protection. Seems like the captain isn't going down with the ship. Aren't there a few others in the hull without access to the public format of the opening address in the bulletin. Brian, Tony has already instituted all the caveats needed.
And if we follow posting policy why the paranoia? I just don't have a good feeling about the course of the ship called NBRC! So free speech isn't free...what about due process? Otis
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1472 posts
Jul 27, 2007
8:22 PM
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Well it wasn't my intention Tony, but if that is they way you feel, in your words...so what. Don't blame me that the feds resourced this site.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1505 posts
Jul 27, 2007
8:37 PM
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"Well it wasn't my intention Tony, but if that is they way you feel, in your words...so what. Don't blame me that the feds resourced this site."
Hey Brian, in response to your "so what", your mentioning of these pages in the evidence of what someone posted voluntarily seems at least to me to be designed to chill the discussion by announcing you have some kind of ammo to use against others that they posted.
And don't blame me that the feds have a subpoena to get old back copies of the NBRC bulletin in an effort to determine if the club was involved in some kind of conspiracy.
And don't blame me that the feds have admissions on video from some of the accused.
Not looking good for the club at all. I wish the leadership would be more forthcoming with the facts and information so these kinds of conversations and discussions would not be needed.
Peace man.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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mkg
2 posts
Jul 27, 2007
9:38 PM
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Tony was going on with you man?Are you ok i think every one knows the facts.You are the one that is making a big stink. The Feds have used this site and there may be more people in troble than we know who knows you might be too know one knows yet dont take this the wrong way i havent read all the posts im sure the Feds have theres know one to blame but the ones who posted.
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Ballrollers
824 posts
Jul 27, 2007
10:22 PM
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Thanks for the reality check, Brian.
Cliff
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1506 posts
Jul 28, 2007
2:28 AM
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Hey Brian, thanks for the long response. You infer positions, motivations and concerns to me and perhaps others that are incorrect.
Nick was right when he said to work within the system for change. So we start talking about doing just that, developing a reform oriented platform and discussing the things that trouble us the most so we can know what we need to do for our reform-minded candidate in the next election.
We are using the democratic process to start a reform movement to bring positive change and openness to the inner-workings of the club. Nothing wrong in that, is there?
The reason a reform-movement is needed is that some of us are concerned that the next president will give us more of the status quo.
Why anyone would now criticize our efforts to develop a new reform minded voting bloc is beyond me, well, actually it is not, they are just content with the way things are.
A grass-roots movement is starting to develop as many are tired of the mess the club is in and we don't want to see anything but success for the club as a whole.
If tomorrow, the current president resigned for the good of the club (not admitting guilt), I would "stand down" immediately and go back to the loft and totally support the new president and his efforts to address the concerns of the membership.
So Brian, are we wrong for working within the system to elect a reform-minded president or are you okay with the status quo too?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1507 posts
Jul 28, 2007
2:38 AM
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"...Tony was going on with you man?Are you ok i think every one knows the facts.You are the one that is making a big stink..."
MKG, don't insult my intelligence.
"...there may be more people in troble than we know who knows you might be too..."
MKG, I have never harmed, trapped, owned a trap or killed a bop ever. Ever. Period. Keep reading the old threads on bop so you can see I have always told guys to not harm them.
The only ones who are worried are the ones who have done something to worry about. Are you worried MKG?
Did I let this guy in?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2007 2:39 AM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1475 posts
Jul 28, 2007
8:46 AM
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Tony, it is obvious, do whatever you want. You have an agenda. Have at it. I'm done here.
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MILO
374 posts
Jul 28, 2007
11:03 AM
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As much as I don't like what Brian has posted, he is right...LOL
Lets try not to take ourselves too seriously guys. At the end of the day, raising pigeons should be the thing that makes you most happy, so if you are engulfed in political drama or gossip instead of pigeons, then you are missing the whole point.
c
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George Ruiz
339 posts
Jul 28, 2007
2:06 PM
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come on guys no more pissing in the cereal LOL
This morning at breakfast I passsed on the cereal it just didnt feel right. LOL
George
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mkg
3 posts
Jul 28, 2007
6:06 PM
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Tony all you want do is fight. I never said any thing about your intelligenc YOU DID.I never said you had or used a trap so dont try to put words in my mouth.I cant read the old posts you deleted them.Im not worried one bit i havent done any thing to be worried about.I dont have time to fight with you i have to go feed the pigeons. SO KEEP UP THE GOOD JOB YOUR DOING. MKG, don't insult my intelligenc
MKG, I have never harmed, trapped, owned a trap or killed a bop ever. Ever. Period. Keep reading the old threads on bop so you can see I have always told guys to not harm them.
The only ones who are worried are the ones who have done something to worry about. Are you worried MKG?
Did I let this guy in?
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2007 6:18 PM
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classicpony
261 posts
Jul 28, 2007
7:22 PM
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LMAO!
After reading this thread,I don't know if I could ever eat cereal again. Give me pancakes, give me eggs, but please no cheerios!
I kept this off Earls.... I found it to be very true here also.....
Guys,
I have opinions on all of this, but the most important one is: #1) Nothing can be helped by a lot of stupid in-fighting like a bunch of kids. None of us have THE answer. #2) The use of bad language and name calling are STILL considered to be in poor taste and not acceptable here on Earl's. I know passions are high right now so have looked away, but it wants to escalate and that we don't want.
Here's something maybe we all can agree with. The dim bulb who wrote on the webpage that **** posted couldn't see why the Roller pigeon would be fascinating, but does love hawks that murder song birds? HUH? I've read also somewhere, they wonder why common birds like Robins and Meadow Larks are way down in the numbers, and point to lack of habitant and of all things global warming as the reasons for this....when every Roller flier in the country could tell them that the hawks (Coopers) which are bird killers are way too numerous now and as such, ARE a problem. The webpage writer almost scoffed at the remark that we have a hawk problem, I've got news buddy, we do!
It always amazes me when people can't see the other side of things and at least respect the other persons point of view. I wonder how they'd feel if they had to witness 35 of their pets killed, some only to have their brains eaten, by these killers.
I'd also bet that most roller men would do very well in any test given about nature and an understanding of same. All of the ones I know are keenly aware of the natural environment and are bird loves besides their pigeons and in many cases BECAUSE they were pigeon people first.
HOW TRUE!!
Jim
@thebirdhouse
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Electric-man
448 posts
Jul 28, 2007
7:57 PM
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My major in college was wildlife conservation! It was my dream! The only reason that I didn't make it was, I became a father and couldn't support my new family and go to school both!
I do believe that some species of BOPs are becoming over populated! Nature (God) will deal with it some day in its own way! Likely, starvation or illness will take over and it will be devastating! May not be before our hobby is ruined, and many other species of their prey are severly threatened, but it will happen! Population control is the key! JMO
Val
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motherlodelofts
1892 posts
Jul 29, 2007
6:42 PM
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Bingo !!!!
"When people start to realize that it doesn't matter what non-pigeon people think about what they saw on the news, then forgot about when the next topic was Lindsey Lohan getting busted. So what if some tree huggers with blogs post comments about what happened. Does it change anything? No. Would they suddenly be like "hey, wow those NBRC guys really got their act together because they fired their president?" No. To think otherwise is folly. Face it people, we raise pigeons and pigeons have been cast as the blight of the earth. Does it matter that pigeons saved lives in wars? Does it matter that pigeons carried mail for numerous countries, being the foundation for communication for decades? Does it matter that in several countries, only royalty could own pigeons of certain types? No. I could go on, but I hope you get the point. TODAY's people don't give a rats ass about pigeons, nor the people who raise them. We wish, want and think we can will otherwise. We can create our own whirlpool of doubt and worry. But reality is reality and with such a handicap comes something you won't find in most other aspects of life. The various physical, mental and character challenges that pigeons fanciers face is what makes our passion so unique and strong. Passion is a double-edged sword...with one swing you can clear a path to progress or defeat a challenge. Yet with a careless swing you can sever your own hand."
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motherlodelofts
1894 posts
Jul 29, 2007
7:40 PM
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Cliff , I have a brother like you , he thinks that he can play on other peoples stupidity to manipulate them , the problem is, most people are smarter than you give them credit for.
Scott
"The entire thread "NBRC Needs New Leadership" started by Billings in a blatant attack on the NBRC and its president is being used publically in various mediums to discredit the NBRC and rollermen even more. Gee thanks, Ken.
Cliff
Read it and weep.'
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J_Star
1098 posts
Jul 30, 2007
6:49 AM
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For some reason, I agree with Cliff. Maybe I am one of those stupid people.
Thanks Scott.
Jay
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Ballrollers
830 posts
Jul 30, 2007
7:20 AM
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Scott,
I've wondered where you have been. Good to have you weigh in on this. I don't know what your problem is, but I bet it's hard to pronounce! LOL! That crap about assuming and playing on other people's stupidity and manipulation is YOUR creation and in YOUR head, not mine or the other readers. Don't try to fill our heads with that mush. I don't think even Kenny would disagree with the fact that his post was designed to discredit the NBRC President in an effort to get him to resign. And his personal disdain for the EC and the decisions they make is professed frequently. My post was, in reality, stating the obvious. I was merely calling attention to the fact that the thread he started was being used by an outside source to discredit the entire hobby, as well as the NBRC. Those are FACTS, my friend....nothing more; no matter how you try to twist it.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2007 7:28 AM
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Shaun
526 posts
Jul 30, 2007
7:41 AM
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Ah, it's good to see Cliff Barnes and JR at each other's throats again. I've really missed that.
Shaun
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Ballrollers
831 posts
Jul 30, 2007
10:06 AM
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Hehehehe. Good to hear from you, too, Shaun. I guess things are returning to "normal", eh? LOL!
YITS,
Cliff
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