George Ruiz
349 posts
Aug 12, 2007
12:21 PM
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How many Champions in your loft ?
George
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motherlodelofts
1923 posts
Aug 12, 2007
1:08 PM
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none , but I do have a few good ones.
Scott
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SiDLoVE
34 posts
Aug 12, 2007
1:36 PM
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Only 1 Champion and Thats ME ..LOL..now i gotta put the managment and handling into them to make them Champions ..Champions make Champions ! God Bless*
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nicksiders
2048 posts
Aug 12, 2007
1:43 PM
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I have never had a champion and I have only seen one in my lifetime......at least I think it was a champion on that day, anyway.
I would like to have a 20 bird kit that contains 15 good Rollers. When I do find a champion in my loft I hope I am astute enough to stock it immediatly.
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Nick
Last Edited by on Aug 12, 2007 1:44 PM
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parlorfancier916
351 posts
Aug 12, 2007
2:40 PM
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CHAMPIONS? NO SUCH THING FOR ME... IT DOESN'T TAKE ONE BIRD TO WIN A FLY, I HAVE A TEAM OF CHAMPIONS LOL.. BUT HEY THEY MIGHT BE RUBBISH IN SOMEONE ELSES EYES SO FOR REAL IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY CHAMPIONS..
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Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/performingrollers
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1505 posts
Aug 12, 2007
3:19 PM
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Like Scott...none. Just some I think are really good.
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classicpony
307 posts
Aug 12, 2007
3:50 PM
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Champions? Not in my loft! But I do like studying them, trying to make them do there best. I have not hit the bird limits that I can start culling. I have someone that will take all my culls. So I have to be careful not to make a mistake and give that good bird away. Someday I might see one or even will enough culling have one but till then, keep looking, studying,and picking my breeds very carefully.
Jim
@thebirdhouse
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1555 posts
Aug 12, 2007
7:05 PM
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Hey George, I hereby certify all your rollers champions. LMAO!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
Last Edited by on Aug 12, 2007 7:10 PM
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MILO
393 posts
Aug 12, 2007
7:10 PM
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LOL
Has anyone ever seen a Champion? Has anyone ever seen Bigfoot? How about a flying saucer? Surely someone has a Champion in their loft.
c
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parlorfancier916
353 posts
Aug 12, 2007
7:39 PM
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well in terms of champions I'll tell you all my birds are champions, not at competitive pigeon rolling but at annoying me lol..
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Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/performingrollers
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George Ruiz
350 posts
Aug 12, 2007
7:58 PM
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Tony
I dont even know what a Champion is ,
George
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Donny James
18 posts
Aug 12, 2007
8:43 PM
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none in my loft but i had a certified hen though the nbrc does that count as a champion bird????????????donny james
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1506 posts
Aug 12, 2007
8:50 PM
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I believe we have been down this road a few times, but it is always somewhat interesting to hear different people's description or expectations for the label of a Champion.
I do have many, many Champions in my lofts, but they are in my show breeds. I have at least a dozen of the birds that are in my total of about 20 Championships. They are Champions because they were judged above the others they were competing against, and against a Standard of Perfection.
When it comes to rollers the Standard of Perfection is subjective. We each in our own way have an idea of what a Champion is, and if most were honest with themselves, will probably admit their idea of what a perfect roller is has changed over the years. I know mine certainly has.
When we start out, most haven't been exposed to hundreds upon hundreds of performances where a person begins to distinguish qualities in a bird's performance and production. Every time we see something that is better than we've seen before, that is inherently the "best" for that person.
The reason I don't prefer to ever label any of my birds as a Champion is because the title is a label of achievement which at that point...ends when given. Personally I think some people sling the word Champion around to make impressions with their peers. It isn't about the bird, but about trying to make a statement in regards to themselves and how others view them.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1556 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:11 AM
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Oh come on George, after all this time in rollers and not 1 champion?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Pali View Lofts
30 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:19 AM
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Yeah....I have a bunch! The people I purchased them from told me they were champions! Okay....let's be real here, not ALL were champions but at least 50% were true champions!! Anybody want to buy some! LOL!
Pali View Lofts
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1557 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:22 AM
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"Personally I think some people sling the word Champion around to make impressions with their peers. It isn't about the bird, but about trying to make a statement in regards to themselves and how others view them."
Don't be afraid to call a bird a "champion" for fear of being derided or called a liar. It is merely a really really good bird that an experienced fancier holds in high esteem. Why would anyone deny him that?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1558 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:33 AM
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"Yeah....I have a bunch! The people I purchased them from told me they were champions! Okay....let's be real here, not ALL were champions but at least 50% were true champions!! Anybody want to buy some! LOL!"
See, derision. You will NEVER BUY someones' champion roller, but you stand the chance of breeding one or more of your own if you start with good stock, study the breed and strive for the ideal. Over time, you will breed rollers worthy of the title.
In sports the difference between "champion" and "first loser" can be inches, micro seconds, a swing of the bat, a saving tackle or heart (Rocky Balboa).
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2007 12:38 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
125 posts
Aug 13, 2007
3:04 AM
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I agree with Tony. "You will NEVER BUY someones' champion roller, but you stand the chance of breeding one or more of your own if you start with good stock, study the breed and strive for the ideal. Over time, you will breed rollers worthy of the title."
Remember it's all in the genes! Ro-gene that is.
......well anyway
Went through my loft and after doing a 1 hour analysis of what a "Champion Performer" and a damm good roller is, I would have to say there's probably 2 Champion rollers in my loft. I'm sure we all wish to breed nothing but champion spinners.... but pigeons have so many chromosomes that it would be very hard to ever duplicate the same pigeon twice. Humans have 64 chromosomes and a pigeon no less then 120; probably twice what humans have which is why you can inbreed birds to bio-genetically build a solid family of good rolling pigeons.
NOTE: Matching body type to body type (along with specific feather patterns) is one way of linking similar traits & ro-genes together. A champion rolling pigeon can be bred in your loft, but you are definitely going to need some good stock as your foundation for breeding.
...so
You can have 3 magnificently marvelous spinning hens with the same Sire & Dam in which none would be exactly the same genetically. Always keeping in mind that all 3 hens will have slightly different characteristics that you won't know about... that is until you try them in stock on various cocks and fly out their offspring. After flying out the young from these 3 hens you'll more than likely know after 2 years or so which is the hen most likely to produce champion performing rolling pigeons.
Something to seriously think about!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2007 3:06 AM
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nicksiders
2050 posts
Aug 13, 2007
4:32 AM
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Maybe we don't use the term "Champion" loosly enough(LOL). Maybe we all are affraid to use the term to describe one of our birds. We are affraid to here somebody that is standing in our yard say "I have better birds than that one" under his breath to the other guy standing with him. So, we just automatically deny having a "Champion".
I mean, tell me the difference between an outstanding bird and a Champion? Who makes that decision?
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Nick
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1559 posts
Aug 13, 2007
4:45 AM
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Nick Says:
"I mean, tell me the difference between an outstanding bird and a Champion? Who makes that decision?"
The difference is in degrees. When enough traits are outstanding and you recognize it has that something special (performance or breeding ability) it can be considered a champion.
Performance and breeding ability are mutually exclusive and the word "champion" can apply to either one.
As for who makes the decision, its you, get out and see as many good birds as you can and over time, you will see enough to know the difference between a champ, a good roller and an average roller.
Be hard about it, but allow yourself the hard earned privilege to call one or more of your birds champions.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
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motherlodelofts
1924 posts
Aug 13, 2007
6:49 AM
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I looked again just to make sure "nope" still none, maybe the problem is I don't know what it is nor care LOL.
Scott
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nicksiders
2052 posts
Aug 13, 2007
7:01 AM
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I got three kitboxes full of potential champions.(snicker-snort)
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Nick
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2007 7:03 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1560 posts
Aug 13, 2007
7:27 AM
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C'mon guys, many of you talk about ball-bearing smoothness this and balance that, character here and motor there.
Haven't you just one bird that has all these traits or is within degrees of it? Or IS it all just talk to show your pensomlike powers of observation? LMAO
Is a champion roller and perfect roller the same thing? If you think so, then as nothing is perfect on this side of eternity, then there IS no such thing as a perfect roller OR champion in your view.
So why drag us all here George, for a pointless thread?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2007 7:27 AM
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J_Star
1125 posts
Aug 13, 2007
8:17 AM
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Well, define a champion for us and let’s see if our birds come close to your definition.
We all have some good or outstanding rollers, not a kit box full but a few, so let’s see if we can come up close to your definition.
I personally would like to have a champion team instead of just a champion roller for the simple fact that a kit of rollers we evaluate not just an individual.
Even if we have a champion in our birds, we cannot keep it in the kit box because he will be gone before you know it. If we keep him in the breeding loft, there is no guarantee that he will produce himself. So for that simple reason, he is no longer a champion.
Jay
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dmitch
39 posts
Aug 13, 2007
8:22 AM
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I do not have any champion but i do have a number of good team players that what make a champion is the TEAM.Just my 2 cent. Nick thank for the offer but fly is the way for me hope to have the chance to see you.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1507 posts
Aug 13, 2007
10:18 AM
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"Don't be afraid to call a bird a "champion" for fear of being derided or called a liar. It is merely a really really good bird that an experienced fancier holds in high esteem. Why would anyone deny him that?"
Afraid? LOL. It has nothing to do with being afraid. The roller game around here is musky brew of the most trash talking shit you've ever heard. Its like an endless spew of opinions and crap being heralded on a basketball court. Everyone's birds are the best, everyone's birds are deeper than the next guy. Everyone raises champions...blah, blah..smack, smack, smack. Just a bunch shit talking. What point does it make to say "I have a champion roller", unless you are trying to make a statement to improve your status with peers or to market your pigeons for profit. What other possible point is there? None, at least none that aren't selfish. The worst thing Pensom ever did was use that word Champion.
I have raised some birds that do everything right. They roll with blurred speed, good depth, bearing smooth, rocket to the kit, manage like they are on auto pilot, never bump, return from overflys, etc. etc. I usually get a couple of them a year that are clearly better than any of the others, and often better than any bird in the stock pen. Does that make them a champion? I really don't care. They are what they are. I don't want other people to think I have Champion pigeons. I would much, much, much rather fly totally under the radar and do what needs to be done in the competition arena with quality pigeons that I call "just a bunch of misfits and mutts".
Anyone who seeks the praise of their peers by promoting their pigeons as elite specimens, not only opens themselves to immediate ridicule and scrutiny, but most likely also has a hidden agenda. Seen it time and time again around here. Most of the guys that use the word Champion when describing their birds, sell kit after kit of rollers.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1561 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:20 PM
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I guess I was right, "afraid". LMAO IF people don't care, why fly competition at all? What's the point? Now its getting deep! ...honey, get me my muck boots...! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2007 12:56 PM
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classicpony
311 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:28 PM
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I opened my kitbox and asked if there is just one champion among you please come forward! There was a loud coo and they all flew forward, going out the door! Leaving me an just an empty kitbox. They had went for a fly leaving the foolish owner still asking himself the same question. Do I, or don't I?? Just who is the one that sez...its a Champ! Don't we pay someone to go around saying this! Maybe we all have our own champs that everyday fly and spin making us happy. But alas we want for more. We want spin, we want someone to say "That Bird looks like it my have CHAMP potential!"
No one will ever say that here but every time I watch my birds My eyes might beg to say different. You will never here me say it.
Jim
@thebirdhouse
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2007 12:38 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1562 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:43 PM
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Okay, "champions" is a word that cannot be used in polite company anymore. The subject of what we consider to be a champion is no longer allowed. Someone might be trying to sell something! Those dang feather merchants just have to go and spoil a good word.
Shhhh...from now on, if you suspect you actually have one, don't say anything to anyone, keep it to yourself.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT AT HUMOR!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Check Out Our Pigeon Supply Store
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2007 12:57 PM
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Gregg
153 posts
Aug 13, 2007
12:44 PM
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Got a few in the breeding loft that in "my mind" might make the grade. But just got to the point that I might have a half way decent kit on the make and today they dumped bird shit all over my face, flew high, split up and stayed out of viewing range for the best part of an hour. When they did get back down the best one of the bunch rolled into a tree and sat there for at least a half hour before it decided to come down and join the rest in the kitpen. So much for "any ego." Every time you get the idea that you might know a little something about this breed, they will teach you a new lesson.
So today they got the wheat cut back and milo to replace it. We'll see how they do tomorrow after the pep talk.
Gregg.
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Hector Coya
192 posts
Aug 19, 2007
1:16 PM
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A Champion bird is a bird that was judged against other people's birds,like an individual bird comp,like the old days,if your bird didnt compete individualy and win it's not a champion.
The only Champion i know (but theres more) is SCRC-72-1570, NBRC 1972 individual Champion bred by Bob Scott
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2007 1:29 PM
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classicpony
326 posts
Aug 19, 2007
1:53 PM
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None here, just rolling cull, wanta beez dreaming of how it could be and snacking on feed. :)
Jim
@thebirdhouse
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2007 2:45 PM
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