Okay how many feel they are flying better birds than their "mentor". If not where is the progress? This is not a trick question I am curious as how many feel that they have improved on what they started with or they still trying to duplcate the original birds. ---------- Ron Borderline lofts
It depends on the day. There are days I believe my birds are better than my mentor's birds and then the next time I put them up they embarrass me and I am the only one watching them. I am sure this is what my mentor goes through, as well. I have progressed enough to be on the same level as my mentor on any given day........in the beginning I was as disorganized as you can get. My birds did not get thier s--- together until I got my s--- together. ---------- Nick
I never really had a mentor, though I have a good friend who doesn't fly a roller worth a shit anymore, but he offered more information that I digested and filtered than anyone else. The most competitive friend who helped in some ways, I've beat while he can still win too. I still consider him a better manager because he can pull a performance from out of no where.
Ron, It takes a lot of time, my friend. My mentor(s) have a dozen pairs crankin' out high percentages of high quality birds, while I have two or three producing at that rate. All the rest of mine are 10-20%. So it will take awhile to just catch up, let alone pass them! Now, along the way, I may be able to produce a better spinning bird, and I suppose that would be progress. YITS, Cliff
Cliff, how long they been in the hobby compared to you? When you reach half of their time, you will have more than a dozen excellent producers "Gold Mine Pairs."
So far, I have four gold mine pairs and hope more in the next couple of years. The problem is I don't want to produce all Rec Reds or pure whites or blue bars rollers.
the guy i got most of my stock birds from i guess i can call him my mentor, has offered me a world of advice on doing things this way and that way is yet to come to my place and see my birds in action because in my opinion i have nothing to show him yet he has had rollers for about 40 years so i think it will my take me a long time until i can honestly say im anywhere near as good as him.cheers trev
Bman ,,, The mentor was to guide your baby steps as a new flyer... as you Grow and Improve!!...Then you walk on your Own !! Being on Your Own and knowing what you know as you mature...Youll not only be a better handler but also Improve in All aspects to wanna Win the Big Flies!! Like rollers they Get deeper and Better with age...and maturity...the thing is to be the Best you can Be and that happens after you learned it ...Never discredit the person who taught you to walk....Good Luck ..
Sid,no discredit.........never had a mentor.Have picked up bits and pieces from alot of sources but mostly just trial and error on my own.But if you don't improve or at least maintain the performance of your stock is there any real progress.If you start with the best you should after a time at least be able to maintain that performance or you are going backwards. ---------- Ron Borderline lofts
I respectfully disagree. If you couldn't improve on what is already there, we wouldn't have Birmingham rollers.
Surely you think our birminghams are better than the birds used to create them?
Or do you think none of our birds are any better than wild columbia livia, from which all domestic pigeons descended?
I know you know the value of selective breeding. Of course there is refinement and concentration of the gene poo, as well as outcrossing which can all lead to better birds than one started with. It doesn't have to lead to improvement and perhaps you beleive it isn't possible.
Remember, even you have said that your percentages are way up from when you started. If that isn't improvement, what is?
Hi Firl and Scott i read your comments. I kmow what stock your breeding from. I have been breeding that stock for many years. You have selected great Birmingham competion roller stock indeed. My advice to you would be to continue breeding them inbreeding and linebreeding. Firl if you have two families you could outcross them. Then you could mate the young together and the hen to the father and the cock to the mother. This would give you the opportunity to benifit with the gene pool exclusively within your stock. After many years you should have a good idea how great your stud is progressing. If you continue selecting the rigth birds in the air and hand you will benifit from it tremendouly If you ever need guidence in the fancy dont hesitate to get in touch with me. Scott your stock from Kenny is great too. I have a family simular because some of Ken Billings birds were brsd into my same family. I have the purest 514 blue-black check family in the world that are related to the 514 stock you posess. Im breeding the very close 514 stock back into the stock you purchased fromKenny. I was fortunite to get the mealy bar family in the late sixtees that are illustrated in the Pensom book. T have bred the mealy bar color together for forty years. They are presently being bred back into the family you obtained from Ken Billing. Ive knowm Kenny since he was a child and his wife Brenda when she was very young in Modesto,California where we wew born. My mentor William Pensom and Ralph Hilton were close friends that i was lucky to study the roller breed with. Also enjoyed the company of studying the roller breed with all fanciers interested in the breed. Good luck you guys and to all roller fanciers. In the fancy. Ray Sanchez
I would love to meet you some time and chat. I too have birds by way of Scott and Kenny, and fondly remember the early days of the PRA and the Modesto boys run. Although I live very far now, it would be a pleasure to meet with you at your convienience or a fly perhaps.
camillo
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1571 posts
Aug 18, 2007
5:23 PM
I have the pleasure of knowing Ray (CrystalPalace) and am fortunate enough to be in the same club and have him come by my loft. He knows the stock I have and says "Tony, where are your blues? You don't have very many blues"?
Well, needless to say, I am breeding more blues because Ray merely asked about it. I am now flying more blues (which tend to take a little longer to come in to the roll than my Ash Reds) and now I kick myself for not doing it sooner.
Let me tell you, there are only two people I absolutely STOP and LISTEN to when they say anything regarding rollers and DO NOT "argue", one is Norm Reed, the other is Ray Sanchez.
I remember when I was in California while at Sal Estrada's house after a fly and Norm Reed was there, I had the pleasure of picking Norms brain and appreciated his no non-sense approach and answers to my questions, needless to say, I have been a "fan" of his ever since.
Once Norm came by my house several times and we kept missing each other, when we finally were able to get together we talked for sometime and look at some of my birds, after some time, he wanted one from my kit box. I said "no, sorry, nothing is leaving here, I want it all...". I was like, "here is THE Norm Reed, wanting a bird of mine"! It was hard to turn him down, but I did.
Ray, I want to come by your place in the next week or so and have you continue to school me on true Birmingham Rollers and while we are at it plan that roller seminar in my back yard. Hopefully, we can get a few there and can take advantage of your knowledge and willingness to share and have a good time.
I will be calling you soon. ---------- FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
