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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Sportsmanship and Flying Rollers
Sportsmanship and Flying Rollers
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Richard
69 posts
Aug 24, 2007
4:01 PM
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Cliff
You stated "Still others, as Kenny emntioned, believe that the best kits should get the best fly times and the best chance to represent the region, WHICH MAKES THE MOST SENSE, but may not encourage the new guy on the block. "
Sorry I don't think it makes the best sense. If they are that good they should be able to handle any time, treated as all the rest in the region. This kind of thinking hurts the Flys.
Richard M
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Santandercol
1361 posts
Aug 24, 2007
7:19 PM
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Fly Times should definately be given on a rotation basis.How could it be fair to everyone any other way?
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Kelly
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Hayseedboy
46 posts
Aug 25, 2007
7:24 PM
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Hey Ray,
I was just wondering. Where did you get the conversation you posted? Was it from another open forum or from an email?
Thanks!
lr
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"Never Moon a Werewolf!"
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crystalpalace
33 posts
Aug 26, 2007
1:37 PM
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This is another letter that I received from a friend that I thought you might find interesting.. Ray
From my understanding of the bylaws the NBRC club has little or no influence over how the individual regions are run. The regions run their own affairs for the most part. The NBRC has very little in witting to guide them on how to administer fairness at the regional level.
In looking at all the problems facing the NBRC, both at the regional and national level, the current system now in place ,is not getting the job done.
I see little chance of fixing this set up. All regions must use a fair and equitable system that is followed and adhered to. Today , we have all these regions, with no two running the same way. The NBRC must insist all regions conduct NBRC sponsored flys in a like manor.
Bobby Bradley talked to Alex about similar problems, Since nothing in the bylaws covered these issues , nothing was done and things got out of hand.
Fact is the NBRC does NOT WANT TO try to control these regions. They can't even see the forest for the trees.
All the NBRC wants to do is sell bands, distribute a bulletin every two months, sponsor the FF and take our $25. The club is too big and too complex to keep going the way we are going.
Now with high Roller bringing all our dirty laundry into the spot light, the NBRC must change the way they do business . If they do not ........ Who knows.
There are over 30 men on the EC and not one of them thinks Juan et al, have done anything wrong. You or I cannot fix that! If a few would show some backbone, some integrity, if you will, then I might have a tiny glimmer of hope , that things could get better.
These RDS enjoy the taste of power and all too soon it corrupts absolutely. If all fairness issues , all political decisions and anything having to do with fly rules ,went to the membership for a vote.....maybe things might have a chance to improve.
It will take EVERY NBRC MEMBER pulling together to form a better club. That will not happen.
The Feds have our bulletins, they know who the high profile leaders/flyers are. They will systematically try to drive those men from the hobby. They will enlist the F&G warders at a state level to check to see that all local ordinances are being followed. Without leaders /flyers, the NBRC will suffer a leadership crisis and the feds are counting on this . If we have no flying pigeons, we won't be tempted to protect our birds. And that is the bottom line.
An interesting side note. A rumor has it that the feds are offering a $350 fine if they plead guilty, no big deal? But I have heard , that along with the fine comes a kicker.... NO HUNTING ,NO GUNS, forever! That is a big deal to hunters and sportsmen. I could be wrong about that but that is what I heard.
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nicksiders
2099 posts
Aug 26, 2007
2:12 PM
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Figure out the best route saving the most miles and schedule accordingly and put the supporting things together once this has been done. The best fly times is between 0700 hours and 1900 hours. Whoever lucks out and gets scheduled within this 12 hours just lucks out.
Don't make rocket science out of the schedule. K.I.S.S. always applies in love and war to be successful.
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Nick
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2007 2:13 PM
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crystalpalace
34 posts
Aug 26, 2007
3:13 PM
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The information came from open forum and e-mail. You are living in a district that has been out of control for many years. The buddy,buddy system that our previous NBRC RD and W.C. coordinator caused has resulted in poor sportsmanship. The past and present W.C. coordinator have never taken time to listen to members in southwest Missouri. Our present NBRC RD listend to us last year and a lot was accomplished. But i believe the members should have the right to pickout judges and have voting priveledges. Yours in the sport,Ray
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Velo99
1276 posts
Aug 26, 2007
4:16 PM
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To determine the best kits a local contest would be the ticket unless a schedule is agreed upon. Another solution is to run the schedule backwards on alternate years.
Dont be afraid to reach into your pocket and cough up some cash for gas or a couple of burgers in addition to your fly fees. A ride to the next flyer is often in order too.
I heard this one a time or two. "We don`t have the money." If thats the case the RD didn`t do his homework and cover the cost with the fly fee. Ya wanna play,ya gotta pay! It isn`t about making money it is about the competetion.
I for one would like to know why the books aren`t zeroed out and the surplus spent on logistics.Wonder how much smoother the FF would run if that 31k surplus WE paid in was spent to smooth the ruts we have mentioned?
Just a thought.
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V99
Flippin`The Bird!
http://www.bluedotloft.50megs.com
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2007 4:25 PM
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kcfirl
184 posts
Aug 27, 2007
7:04 AM
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KGB,
why don;t you volunteer to be the RD - then you can pick.
Nothing updets me more than guys that do nothing to run the flies bitch about their fly times.
Geez - step up man.
Ken Firl
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MILO
411 posts
Aug 27, 2007
9:38 AM
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Ken.
You are way too fast too pull the trigger. I would never be able to put in time to be an RD. Is that what I have to do to get a fair shot? I get the shit end of the stick every year, but I love the competition, so I say nothing. Well here is my opinion for ya. But then hey, you were the guy that said if I didn't like dealing with the falcon trouble I should just uproot my family and career and move...LOL I most likely won't compete anymore because it's not worth the risks. Not to mention the fly days and times are just retarded for me. I am talking about the WC and FF. WC is way too soon and FF is way too late. Who cares anyway right? I am in BFE. I get over six months flying BOP free, so why do I lose over half my birds to BOP's every year? LOL Do the math. I think your exact words were "You will never win your region with your situation." I think you are right. I can't force the fit.
I am thinking about getting a club formed so I can get some competitive juices flowing. The guys in my area share the same BOP habits, so it is a thought. It's probably a silly idea, because everyone I try to get motivated just rolls their eyes at the very thought.
Yes, I do nothing to set up the flys, but I keep my mouth shut. Doesn't make it right though. When the judge showed up three hours late at 6:00 pm to my WC prelim that I waited a year for and I DQ'd cause they got blown away, I didn't say a word. Not a word. I simply thanked the judge and went to watch TV...LOL I vote too, even though my vote doesn't count...right? When are you guys gonna lighten up? Every time I get pumped up to fly comps, I am quickly reminded why it may be better to be a recluse flyer. I am not attacking you, nor do I want to put you on the spot, but you may want to aim before you fire, so you don't shoot the wrong person. LOL Take it easy, and you are welcome here any time.
c
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kcfirl
185 posts
Aug 27, 2007
10:01 AM
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Milo,
yes - you need to be the RD.
You get crappy fly times because you live far away from the concentrations of flyers in your area.
Your region has had a problem getting guys to be RD's forever.
step up or quit bitching.
Ken
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Ballrollers
859 posts
Aug 27, 2007
10:02 AM
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Ray, Milo,
The last post you shared with us is nothing more than negative opinion and rhetoric designed to cause hard feelings and spread doom and gloom in the hobby...nothing more....very little in the way of factual information. It amazes me how grown men will whine and complain to each other, or to the men on computers, yet do nothing of substance to fix their problem. The NBRC currently operates its national competitions on the basis that the situations in every region are so different, that the regions know best how to run their regional competition. If you think the NBRC should have more influence in the regional competitions, tell your RD....tell the Fly Director....tell the President. If you don't like the way your RD does something....tell HIM...whining to your roller buddy or a computer list won't get much accomplished. If you don't get action then, tell the Fly Director in the case of the NBRC; or the Continental Coordinator in the case of the World Cup. If you still get no where, contact the Presidents of the orgainization directly. And by all means, vote in a new RD if he is not conducting things fairly, like they did in Missouri (right Ray?!). He can tell you that things then changed for the positive./
On the other hand, keeping your mouth shut and then choosing not to participate accomplishes nothing either....it only deprives you of a special segemnt of the hobby; the comraderie of your friends in the hobby and the opportunity to be recognized for your efforts at breeding and training rollers.
YITS,
Cliff
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nicksiders
2101 posts
Aug 27, 2007
12:19 PM
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Why are we still trying to make this difficult? The birds actually don't give a rat's ass less what time of day they fly. As soon as you find out what time of day they fly begin training them on that schedule as best as your work schedule can allow.
Stop the whinning. If it is that important to you to be scheduled at the time you deem perfect and it doesn't happen.....don't fly. Stop dragging your negetivity into this sport and hobby. We don't want it; you keep it. Quit, just drop out. Fly homers or something; I am numb from the bullshit.
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Nick
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2007 12:20 PM
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Ballrollers
861 posts
Aug 27, 2007
1:10 PM
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I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, Nick. In certain regions at certain times of the year, under certain weather conditions, fly times CAN mean the difference in a quality fly and a DQ. I don't argue that point. But it's how the flyer deals with it that I am addressing. Nobody is saying that it's "right" when the same guys get the primo times...or the "good ole boy" system prevails. But you can do something about it, other than whine on computer lists. If the posts were reading,"We have discussed it among all the flyers, with our RD, the Fly Director, the President, and nobody is listening."......well that is a different issue....
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2007 1:24 PM
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Hayseedboy
47 posts
Aug 27, 2007
1:24 PM
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Got curious about the word sportsmanship and looked it up.
sports·man·ship
1. the character, practice, or skill of a sportsman.
2. sportsmanlike conduct, as fairness, courtesy, being a cheerful loser, etc.
sports·man·ship
1. The fact or practice of participating in sports or a sport.
2. Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially fair play, courtesy, striving spirit, and grace in losing.
Once and only once in both definitions is the word Fairness listed.
BUT other words show up several times i.e.
Character (maybe being the bigger man)
Practice
Skill
Sportsmanlike Conduct
Courtesy (talking privately maybe)
Being a cheerful loser
Participating (is everyone that is complaining Participating???)
Striving spirit
Grace in losing (maybe even when you don't want to be)
Are we all showing these other atributes of Sportsmanship?
I know... you don't agree with me.... oh well.
Go look it up yourself
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sportsmanship
lr
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"There is so much good about the worst of us and so much bad about the best of us, that it behooves none of us to talk about the rest of us."
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Mongrel Lofts
331 posts
Aug 27, 2007
2:45 PM
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Ken Firl,
This may shock you.. I helped form the CCRC and run it for many years. I put out a club bulletin for 10 years in the CCRC. I have judged for the WC and put the judge up for both the Fall Fly and WC in your region and mine. I took a year off from breeding and flying my own birds, to fly the California Classic for others in this sport. I can assure you, I have given up a lot of my time and money for this sport also. I didn't start flying rollers a couple years ago you know Ken. I'm not at a point in my life to do the job of RD at this time. I'm smart enough to know it. I guess if I'm not the RD, I have no right to offer idea's, help or opinion's. I forgot, only the RD's have the right to idea's in the NBRC. Ken, I like you but I think your self righteous, I'm the RD crap is just that.. BS!! The flyers in any region should have a voice, a say, a vote in how their fly and region is ran. All NBRC members,, RD, EC or not should have a voice and vote. I guess we don't need the NBRC members, just the NBRC RD's and EC to have a club and run the flys? Now that would be a fun club! Should we all start sacrificing our first born at the RD, EC alter? I'm getting fed up with this, your not the RD and your not doing the hard work of the RD, so you don't have a right to an opinion stuff! Nothing bothers me more, than a self righteous servant of the people! I do all the work for you for free, so you all have to do everything my way and shut up! I'm the RD! It's not how a club or fly should be ran. Fare is fare, wether you are an RD or not. Don't you think Ken? KGB
PS. Ken, I'm not bitching about my fly time. Read my post again. I was trying to give those who have been getting the short end a voice. My region runs well. Our RD has done a good job every year except one in my opinion.. That's pretty darn good, 11 to 1.. LOL
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2007 2:53 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
332 posts
Aug 27, 2007
7:19 PM
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Hi Ken,
So my region and your region run well. So lets not worry about those that are getting to fly in the heat every year and at dark. So what if some regions fly the same guy every year early morning and the same guy in 100 degree weather at 3pm. Your region runs well because you know whats best for them and your fair. No reason to worry about those who are being treated unfairly! They are probably just in the way of the guys who deserve an advantage every year anyway. I get it! I'm done.. KGB
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kcfirl
188 posts
Aug 27, 2007
7:25 PM
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Kgb,
if guys are being treated unfairly, something should be done. We agree.
If the specifics are documented and sent up through the chain of command, it seems like it should be able to be sorted out.
If an RD is unfair, he can be voted out.
Ken
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Mongrel Lofts
333 posts
Aug 27, 2007
7:48 PM
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Ken,
You would think so wouldn't you? I can tell you of three different regions that were having problems just like the ones we are talking about. Two of Them I know went up the chain of command to the national fly director. One was told there are no rules or guide lines in the by-laws to direct the RD in his region or the national fly director, so he could do nothing. The other was told, its a local problem and I can't do anything. Are there any rules or guidelines that RD's must follow, or is it each region do as you feel? What's the protocol if you have a problem.. Is it anything like going up the chain of command if you have a problem with your master flyer points? I have went up the chain of command and back to the bottom and back up to the top again! Can you as the RD tell me why I can't get anything done about that? Your an RD. I think the guys that have tried to air their complaints to the higher ups, run into the same wall Ken in a few area's. Not the ones you know, but the other guys Ken. The ones that are not so well known or heard from. Sorry Ken, I know it just sounds like bitching to you. You don't have a problem. To the guys that do have the problem, its real! Some are not flying anymore because their complaints fall on deaf ears.. Shoot, I'm not having a problem with this at all Ken. Just some of my friends are and have. I thought maybe some solutions might come from talking about it. I guess I'm wrong again! Now that's a first! LOL KGB
KGB,
if guys are being treated unfairly, something should be done. We agree.
If the specifics are documented and sent up through the chain of command, it seems like it should be able to be sorted out.
If an RD is unfair, he can be voted out.
Ken
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2007 7:56 PM
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Ballrollers
864 posts
Aug 28, 2007
11:12 AM
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I'm afraid Billings is right to some extent. The policy of the NBRC is NOT to intervene in how the regions run their flys. If a majority of flyers want to see the NBRC become more involved in the Regional Flys in order to see that there is more uniformity and fairness from region to region throughout the country, it would require a change in the By-laws. So have your RD or a group of members submit it to the next president if you really believe in the concept. But remeber, it takes a majority to change policy, not just the ideas of a small minority.
YITS,
Cliff
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