Mongrel Lofts
335 posts
Sep 02, 2007
10:36 AM
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Wow Kenny; that's a nice looking wall of paintings!...lol
Thanks for sending the picture.
Your Buddy
Clyde P.S. I seen, and talked a while with Eldon yesterday. Man, he is really pissed at you!
He said he took your name off the trophy for the 11 bird. He had a new one made, and
threw yours away. He'll be here again on the 6th to judge my kit. Anything you me to
Tell him?
Guys,
As you all know I have been fighting for over a year to get my MF flying record back from the NBRC. They have told me to my face over and over that they are fixing it right now, then they do nothing. I have went from RD's to the President several times, to the National fly director to VP.. Always get told they will make it right then they do nothing. They gave Beaver Dayton a MF award and posted his name but my fly record. I have asked and begged for them to post my name with my fly record and restore my good name and hard earned fly record. I have also asked that they post Beaver Dayton's fly Record so people know how He got his MF award. I feel both myself and Beaver deserve this! Don't you?
So today I get the above in my e-mail. Is this how this club works? You win a national title and if the guys in power decide they have a bone with you or don't like you, they can arbitrarily strip you of your National win and take 25 years of flying rollers for a MF award and say FU? I honestly have run into a brick wall trying to work with the current NBRC leadership. What would you do? I talked to Gonzalo last month. Like Jaun, Brian Middaugh, Allen Turrcotte, Cliff Ball and now Gonzalo, they say they are working on it right now.. its on the table in front of me. Then nothing! Why would they do this and what is going on? It's a 30 minute job to gather the points. I can send them my record again if need be. Have Beaver do the same and publish it,, How hard is that? What do you do, when you lied to, dodged and ignored by the NBRC leadership? You guys tell me! Tired of the crap. Ken G. Billings
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2007 10:40 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
815 posts
Sep 02, 2007
10:50 AM
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Hey Ken,
Sounds like you on the burnt end of the camp fire stick..There is always the option of ending your membership status with the NBRC, and let it be..Now dont get me wrong, I dont think that would be the right thing, just an option..
I know Mr.Cheney, and he appears to be a good guy..The beef between you and the current NBRC needs to be resolved. I understand your frustration and determination to get this resolved, but when those that are on the pedestal are not being knocked off, then that makes it tough for those that are holding them up by their base...eventually, THEY WILL FALL..... my 2 cents
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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W@yne
638 posts
Sep 02, 2007
11:11 AM
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Kenny
I cant believe something so simple cant be resolved.
Guys whats happening over there??
Why is nothing being done ???
Kenny i know where the frustration in you is coming from and i know this has been going on for a while.
If the guys in the positions at the NBRC cant do there jobs then its time for someone else to take over surely.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2007 11:25 AM
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Missouri-Flyer
816 posts
Sep 02, 2007
11:31 AM
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Ken,
Without getting to personal, what was the "original" reason for them not excepting your MF points?..There has to be an under lying issue..There are always 2 sides to any story.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Ballrollers
867 posts
Sep 02, 2007
12:04 PM
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Jerry,
It is not that his MF points were not accepted; it was an honest error in switching the points earned between the men, as I understand the problem. There was also an issue of concern over BeaverDayton's severe chronic illness and having to tell him that he did not really earn the title.
Kenny,
I understand your frustration. Now you understand the level of frustration for the past two or three years on the part of the several men who won the traveling plaque, but were unable to enjoy it for the year they earned because you refused to pass it along to those men. I'm not bustin' your chops. just speaking frankly. The irresponsibility and lack of repect that you displayed toward your fellow rollermen and the NBRC earned you some harsh judgement from veteran roller men in the NBRC.
Everyone that I know of that you have contacted about your MF record, including myself, has been told that the records are being corrected. That's all I know about it my friend. This is not about NBRC leadership in general. There is only one man responsible for making this right...Juan Navarro.....since he has retained the responsibility of getting the MF records straightened out so that Gonzalo can post them on the web site. Maybe he is giving you a taste of your own medicine, eh? Maybe it will take two years! LOL! Sorry, I know this is not a laughing matter to you. And I am by no means stating that as a fact or a reason for the delays. You have to admit that Operation High Roller has been a tremendous distraction for those involved.
Since I beleive it was Eldon who conceived the traveling plaque program, you offended him, particularly, when you bogarted the plaque. As I understand it,anyone who bogarts it in the future will loose their title or the privelige of flying until it is passed on. And I think that's fair....fair is fair, right? Unfortuantely, your behavior has contributed to this mess. But nearly everyone in the NBRC leadership beleives that your MF records need to be straightened out ASAP......nearly everyone....
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2007 12:05 PM
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nicksiders
2124 posts
Sep 02, 2007
12:28 PM
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Wayne - we can't answer for the club's elected officers. We can only voice our oppositions; approvals; and the such. So, most of us don't know what is going on.
My take on it is that someone in the works screwed up and mixed Billings' and Beaver's records up; awarded Beaver the Master Flyers to him based on it; and now are hoping Beaver wins a few flys to qualify him anyway. He has failed to do this so now it has gotten to be a bigger embarassment and some member's or officer's pride is being damaged over it.
Then you add to it the effect what Billings' attitude and demeanor has on people you have a situation that just keeps getting worse and worse until something is about to blow.
I have a great deal of respect for Billings. He has helped me emmensly and when I ask him what he thinks he is truthful and accurate. We agree on most things about pigeon breeding (damn near everything). The problem he gets into (in my opinion) is when he thinks you are full of it; instead of using the word "it" he uses the term "shit" and it puts people off. He is kinda like a "shock joc". What he says maybe right, but it how he says it that pisses some people off. People without "balls" then tend to back away from him even though they may agree with what he is saying, but because of his demeanor they get angry.
I like Kenny Billings; many do not. It is a personality thing with those that do not, because they are generally spineless.
The NBRC needs to get this taken care of regardless who it may embarrass. They cannot simply continue ignoring what is of record.
Just my opinion, so it don't mean a pissing thing.
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Nick
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Donny James
31 posts
Sep 02, 2007
2:33 PM
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hay kgb,
that plan sucks but have to look at this way if you ain't good with the good old boys (NBRC) your plan out of luck so your out of luck and your wooden birds is 1/2 (half) painted my brother is putting the white trim on them today or tomorrow and i have to put the clear paint on them i should get them out some time this week.................donny james
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Richard
75 posts
Sep 02, 2007
6:14 PM
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Well Guys seem looks like there is a lot to do about nothing over an award. Are
the total number of POINTS given away so the Mr Billings is embarrassed so that
it appears he does not have enough points, but he still has the award. Are they
trying to take away his award. Don't sound like it to me. .
I was just short
about 35 points or less when Rick Mee turned the job over to someone else. I
think this was in 2000 or 2001. The next year I got enough points {not by club flys but the wc and fall fly.} Well I was told I did not have enough points. It
took me till 2005 to get the MF award. Big deal. Yes I was upset but did not
make it a national issue.
Ken you got the award and they are not trying to
take it away from you, why the big fuss. At least it did not take three or so
years to get it. Be proud that you won it ahead of me. HEE HEE There are many
out there that would just love to come close to winning it and have not had the
good fortune to make it. Feel lucky that you did.
Richard Miller
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tapp
300 posts
Sep 02, 2007
6:41 PM
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The NBRC needs to get it done now. Get Ken's record straight! He's earned it! Whether they like him or not. Two wrongs don't make a right! As Far as the travling award. Why not have the RD charge each fall flyer $1.00 extra then send the money he colected to whoever is in charge of theses things. And have an award made every year with the exra money that the winner keeps. Instead of sending ONE all over the place? Have one Plaque for 11 bird winner and one for 20 bird winner. That shoud generate enough money for the Plaques and shipping. A nice one at that! Kim Tappenden Ps, When I win the 11 bird or 20 bird fall fly I'd like to be able to keep it. Not just rub and hug it for a year, and then kiss it good bye!!!!
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2007 6:45 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
336 posts
Sep 02, 2007
6:41 PM
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Nick,
First I want to say thanks. Your comments about the problem with the MF and with my personality are both pretty accurate.
Richard,
No, I don't think you understand what they have done.. They gave the MF award to another flyer based on my fly record. They posted my intire fly record under another mans name. They awarded the MF award at the last convention, then posted the fly record they gave the award for and it was my fly record.. Like in 1996 I took Second in WC finals. things anyone could check in minutes. I don't know if the guy they gave the MF award to, has the points or not according to his own fly record. All I know is you look two years back at my MF award in the NBRC bulletin and look at last years and you will find two MF flyer awards given to two men for the same fly record. Ken Billings and Beaver Dayton got a MF award based on one fly record according to the NBRC, MINE. I have asked for over a year that the mix up be fixed. It's no big deal to anyone except the guys who have there record taken.. Can you imagine giving Richard a master flyer award based on Rick Mee's fly record.. You open the bulletin and there is your name as MF Reciepent and the reason you got it, is because of Rick Mee's fly record.. Does this make any sense? LOL Rambling Richard. I'm trying to make it clear, but I fear I'm just muddin things up.. thanks,, KGB
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Richard
76 posts
Sep 02, 2007
7:11 PM
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Ken
At least you were civil. That I like.
I understand and you are right but is it worth the big hassel? YOur Good name has not been tossed into the mud.Ken we all know you are a good trainer.
We as roller flyers got along back in the '70 and 80'and appeared to be one happy family. No one knocked another flyers or his birds. Along came compatition and the price of rollers went up. Every one was getting into the marked of the big buck rollers. Back stabing, name calling, saying how ugly another's flyers birds were, and you all have heard the rest. All to make money.
Yes the WC and Fall fly has very much improved the overall quality of the Roller in the States. I remember back in the '70 one could visit a lot of lofts and was hard pressed to see one or two good birds in a kit. Today most of the flyers out there can put up a quality kit of birds. Maybe not everday but we must remember birds have their good and bad days not to mention the weather.
Richard Miller
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sundance
163 posts
Sep 02, 2007
7:48 PM
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Hey Tapp. I want to wish you luck also. Maybe the roller gods will smile on us on our fly days...LOL
I think you were onto something with your post earlier. I checked with an online trophy store and found that for about 20 bucks you can get a real nice trophy. Just a dollar donation from each flyer could get at least 1 trophy for each regional qualifier or it could be pooled into one monster trophy for the overall winner.
Just a thought...
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Ballrollers
869 posts
Sep 02, 2007
8:15 PM
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Tapp...Butch....
The winners DO get their own trophy or plaque, as do all the regional qualifiers for their accomplishment in the national championship Fall Fly. The idea of the traveling plaque was to list all the previous winners, add the new winner to it, and let the new winner enjoy the plaque in his home for the year (until the next fly) seeing his name alongside all the other previous winners. Don Ouelette missed out on that opportunity due to Kenny's decision not to pass it on, and he was very upset about it, particularly when, in winning that fly, he became the first NBRC member to win both the 20-bird and the 11-bird national competitions. (He will be awarded a special plaque to commemorate that accomplishment at the NBRC Convention in September.) The EC took up the issue whether or not to delete this particular program, but decided that the actions of one man should not ruin it for everyone. So another one was made, thinking that Ken had no intention of relinquishing it (after requests by Juan, Alex Hamilton, and myself). As a result of this incident, the EC subsequently passed a fly policy that would forbid anyone in the future from flying in any further competitions if they fail to relinquish the traveling plaque, until they do so.
If you look at the NBRC website under Competition and Master Flyers, Kenny is listed as the Master Flyer reicepient and Beaver Dayton is not listed. Apparrently the records have been corrected already, so I'm not sure what Kenny is looking for other than his pound of flesh.
FYI,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2007 8:22 PM
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fhtfire
1088 posts
Sep 02, 2007
9:44 PM
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Man,
I don't care what kind of illness somebody has or does not have. That is not a reason to not change the mistake. I have been an athlete most of my life and in any competition..if a mistake happens you correct it. Period...and you do it in a timely manner. I was in a body building competition and I was told that I won and then they said they made a mistake and I took second. That is after they announced to everyone. But that is part of being human. Olympic medals have been changed because of human error or even a computer error. Just because someone has an illness should have nothing to do with it. It is not that I do not have a heart....I would not be in the job that I have if I did not have a heart. The fact is.....the mistake should have been corrected right away. Whoever had Kennys points should have been told that it was a mistake and then move on. That person should not want to except something that he did not really earn.
As for the plaque thing...who cares...buy a new plaque...you are talking about 60.00...if the person the kept the plaque wins again....then he gets no plaque..he already has one. I myself think that traveling plaques are crap anyway. Especially if they travel back and fourth all over the country...why waste time keeping track of who has it. Now I can understand if it is a club against club etc...but not individuals.
Anyway...my two cents....the NBRC needs to get on the ball and make the change and let everyone know the change...regardless of health issues.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Electric-man
551 posts
Sep 02, 2007
10:24 PM
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The idea of a traveling plaque is retarded! Cheap way out!
Val
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SiDLoVE
71 posts
Sep 02, 2007
11:25 PM
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Mr Cliff Ball.. You got a good point ... But Think about it ..Even with Kenny holding the plaque they still showed no interest to fix the problem . I dont blame Ken for holding the plaquet . If they would had fixed Kennys problem Don O would had the plaque. But since they moved like slow turtles to fix anything then Its the NBRC fault Don didnt get his share due to lack of slowness to fix a problem . If i was Kenny i would had just kept the plaque till the problem was fixed...all hes asking for is to fix and look back in the record book . Imagine if this is happening to him ...how many other people is it gonna happen too? If you guys thought Kenny words were not nice. You havent seen anything yet ...LOL..have a good one
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gotspin7
111 posts
Sep 03, 2007
4:59 AM
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Ken, it looks like they fixed already! look under the NBRC Competitions and you got it! Sal
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JMUrbon
291 posts
Sep 03, 2007
9:30 AM
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Cliff that sounds crazy to me. Kenny knows his MF ponts, I know mine and chances are Beaver knows his. The EC should and in my opinion must do the rite thing. Kenny is a bit rough around the edges sometimes but NOBODY can argue with his fly record. It is simply top shelf and they know it. I am amazed that this cant be fixed in just a few minutes. Shame on Eldon and the rest of the officers for allowing this to go on as long as it has. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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sundance
164 posts
Sep 03, 2007
9:39 AM
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Imagine if this is happening to him ...how many other people is it gonna happen too? If you guys thought Kenny words were not nice. You havent seen anything yet ...LOL..have a good one
OK, BUT HAS IT EVER HAPPENED BEFORE? AND WAS IT ANY MORE FAIR THAT OTHERS WHO HAD THE RIGHT TO A PLAQUE DIDNT GET IT ? KEN HAD A RIGHT TO BE AS UPSET AS HE WANTS OVER A MISTAKE MADE BY WHOMEVER. I CANT SAY I WOULD FAULT ANYONE FOR THAT. BUT HE MADE A DELIBERATE DECISION TO KEEP THE AWARD FROM OTHERS WHO WON IT JUST THE SAME AS HE DID. THAT WAS WRONG. AND HAS HE APPOLOGIZED FOR THAT TO DON? MAYBE HE HAS AND I OR WE DONT KNOW IT. HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF AS A FLYER, BREEDER AND TRAINED. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. BUT AGAIN, HE WAS THE VICTEM OF A TERRIBLE MISTAKE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN EASILY CORRECTED. WHY IT WAS`NT , I CANT SAY.
KENNY DOES HAVE A WAY WITH WORDS BUT HE HAS PRESENTED HIMSELF AS THE ROLLER POLICE FOR A LONG TIME NOW. THOSE WHO DO AS HE BELIEVES AND BELIEVE EVERYTHING HE SAYS ARE IN HIS GOOD GRACES. FOR MOST EVERYONE ELSE BEWARE THE WRATH OF KGB. BOO YA
HE HAS BEEN VERY WELL RESPECTED BY MOST IN THE SPORT BECAUSE HE EARNED IT. FAIR AND SQUARE.... BUT IN MY PERSONAL AND HUMBLE OPINION HE HAS TAINTED HIMSELF BY HIS DELIBERATE ACTIONS THAT COST OTHERS TO LOSE THEIR MOMENT IN THE LIMELIGHT. JUST MY OPINION. AFTER ALL, HE IS VERY QUICK TO POINT OUT THE FAULTS AND MISTAKES OF OTHERS EVEN IN THE MIDST OF HIS OWN WRONGFUL DOING TO OTHERS IN THE SPORT. WHY DO SO MANY BOW DOWN TO HIS WORDS? IS IT A FEAR THAT SOME DAY THEY MIGHT NOT GET SOME OF HIS TRULY PROVEN STOCK? I DONT KNOW. IS IT BECAUSE HE MIGHT COME AND ARREST SOMEONE WITH A YELLOW BIRD IN THEIR BREEDING LOFT? OOO , BE SCARED YA`LL. ARE HIS WORDS SOMETIMES NOT NICE? YES. WERE THEY ALWAYS WRONG? NO. DOES HE HAVE A RIGHT TO SLAM ,WITH OFTEN DEROGOTORY NAMECALLING, ANYONE WITH DIFFERENT VIEWS ON BREEDING ROLLERS? NO.
I`VE WATCHED HIS POSTS FOR A LONG TIME AND WONDERED WHY HE CAN SAY SO MUCH THAT IS, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, USUALLY RIGHT, BUT THE WAY HE SAYS IT IS SOOOO WRONG.
OK, I GOTTA GET OFF THIS NOW . IM SURE IVE SAID MORE THAN I SHOULD. JUST HAD TO SAY IT. KENNY, I`M SURE YOU WILL READ THIS. AND I HONESTLY DONT MEAN ANY OF THIS TO P*#S YOU OFF BUT I JUST FEEL IT HAD TO BE SAID. BULLYING THOSE THAT COLOR BREED WONT CHANGE THEM. IF YOU TRULY FEEL WHAT THEY DO IS WRONG CONVINCE THEM WITH HARD PROOF AND KIND FRIENDSHIP.NAMECALLING AND MOCKERY WONT DO IT. WHEN THE CLUB MESSED UP YOUR POINTS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CORRECTED IN FAIRLY SHORT ORDER. YOUR PATIENCE WAS TESTED, TO SAY THE LEAST. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT YOUR WORDS AND THE WAY YOU PUT THEM MIGHT HAVE MADE IT WORSE. ANYWAY....
IT SOUNDS LIKE THE MF POINTS ARE CORRECTED. AS THEY SHOULD BE. SHOULD YOUR NAME GO BACK ON THE TRAVELING PLAQUE. I THINK IT SHOULD. YOU EARNED IT. SHOULD YOU GET IT AGAIN? OF COURSE, IF YOU WIN IT. SHOULD YOU APOLOGIZE TO A FEW PEOPLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS AND NOT SO KIND WORDS? DEFINATLY...
EVERYONE SCREWS UP. EVERYONE DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE. DID THE CLUB SCREW UP SOMEWHERE? SURE THEY DID, BY ACCIDENT. DID YOU SCREW UP? OF COURSE YOU DID. DO YOU BOTH DESERVE A CHANCE TO MAKE IT RIGHT>??? MOST DEFINATLY....
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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JMUrbon
292 posts
Sep 03, 2007
9:51 AM
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Butch I will speak on this on a personal level. I dont drink beers with Kenny nor do we have long conversations at nite. I dont agree with everything Kenny has to say and have no fears of disagreeing if the need be. I dont fly his birds nor do I feel the need to. I do however greatly respect what he has done with his family of birds. I know what it has taken for me to get my birds were they are today and it is for that reason I have the respect for Kenny that I do.Joe Urbon
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Missouri-Flyer
817 posts
Sep 03, 2007
10:40 AM
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Well said Joe.... Those that dont agree with what Kenny has to say, need to sit back and let his words fall on deaf ears.. I personally have never met nor talked to Kenny, tho from my readings, he appears to be a top notch competitor. I will respect that, as well as respect his tough approach to words at times.. With everything else aside, it is my belief as well as many others that the tops of the NBRC should have AND COULD HAVE fixed THEIR mistake long before Kenny ever new the problem existed.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Mongrel Lofts
337 posts
Sep 03, 2007
5:27 PM
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Hey Men,
I want to thank those of you who have tried to help in this MF thing. I also want to thank those that don't agree with me. I'm sure your intentions aren't bad. Not all of you anyway. You don't have to agree with me to be my friend. My friends know that, they tell me all the time! LOL
Now, I want to set the record straight. I do owe Don Ouellette and Joe Joyner an apology for different reason's. I was living in a tent in Calif, my stuff packed to move back in Idaho the year Don O won the 11 bird. Personal problems, no excuse just the way life happens. Sorry Don if your reading this.
The Year Joe Joyner won, I was back in Idaho. I told Juan I had the plague at the convention and He had no idea there was an 11 bird plague. He said he would fix the MF thing next bulletin and I said I would mail him the plague soon as I found it. It was packed in one of the boxes and I didn't know where. The bulletin came out and nothing. A phone call and the run around and around.. That's when I made a huge error in judgement. I told Juan I would send the plague when he straightened the MF thing out.. I hadn't dug it out anyway. That was wrong on my part. I owe Joe Joyner an apology for that. I sent him a card with the plague.
I feel I also owe all those who fly rollers in the NBRC competitions an apology for my part in the plague mess. I felt they had backed me against the wall with the MF thing and I came out swinging.. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sorry guys. I won't make that error in judgement again if I can help it. Sincerely Ken Billings {KGB}
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