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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
RUBY'S and what to expect?
RUBY'S and what to expect?
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Oldfart
121 posts
Sep 07, 2007
4:25 PM
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Tony, First I want you to understand I have no objection if you or the moderators find these questions objectionable, then delete this post!!!
Now for the questions. I'm am asking about your RUBY's and only your RUBY's, no cross matingings at all! You have on occasion referred to one side of your family being hot, or adding control. My mind wonders about the in-betweens that have not been descussed. I am not breeding for color and never will!!! Plain enough? I do however know that color will play some factor within individual families. In your family, (from what I have read) I understand that Lavender is hot, and that the blues add control. What of the others?
What can I reasonably expect from the reds, blacks,red bars,ecc., ecc. I am very happy with all the young I have breed from the starting birds I purchased from you and am trying to plan for next years breeding season. I plan to fly hard and only keep the very best. I simply do not wish to spend years tryin to learn what you already know abour your birds and I am sure there are more clients then I wondering about these questions.
Thanks, Thom
Last Edited by on Sep 07, 2007 4:29 PM
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fhtfire
1092 posts
Sep 07, 2007
6:31 PM
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THom,
Owning Ruby's myself....I have found that the only roll downs that I have had from the Ruby's have been lavender. I have not had very many roll downs...only two this year from the Ruby side. My blue checks, Blue bar and blacks that have come from the Ruby's don't seem to be as active...but are still very good kit birds. I pulled a blue check this year to mate with a Lavender cock...and I have pulled a Black that showed it all. The Mealy bars and red checks...seem to do very well, I have been totally happy with them. I have two bald's...a mealy and a red check that are pure Ruby and those have been very good birds and would break together most of the time....they are brothers and they have both made the stock loft.
This year half my pairs have been Mort crosses with the Rubys for shits and giggles....TOny has some strong genes...most of the birds have come out looking like Ruby Rollers..LOL...I am VERY happy with the results. Both the balds are mated to Mort birds....I did pull a Mort/Ruby Cross from last years team that is one of my best birds bred to date...this is his first year in the stock loft..he is lavender in color..father was a Mealy bald Ruby and Mom was a Black Mort hen. I have the cross on a Lavender Hen that Tony let me Borrow...Next year I will put him on a Mort hen.
To be honest..I have seen good birds across the board in the Ruby's...I breed regardless of color...and I really have found no difference in the matings...but I have bred a Mealy bar to a Red check and got Lavender off spring and one of those rolled down....I have just bred best to best with some gut instinct involved....just put a new cock in stock and try him on different hens and vise versa....and see what happens.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1618 posts
Sep 07, 2007
9:04 PM
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Hey Thom, I don’t mind you asking at all.
I hope I can add some additional useful information. First off, I don’t value either the Blue Series or Ash Red series above the other. I breed for what I see in the air, on the ground and taking into consideration the relationship between birds, i.e. father to daughter, mother to son, etc…I do color balancing when I feel the offspring off the pairing of an Ash Red bird (say…hot lavender that has all the traits I like but is very hot) will benefit from the attributes of the Blue side of the family (tend to be more stable early on).
Don’t let the trends (lavender hot and blue for control) I have observed and noted from the Ruby family throw you, the red checks, red bars and the rest will perform equally as well in their own right and I would just as soon pick one of these color patterns for stock as I have done often enough.
My mentioning the lavendars and blues the way I have almost does the other “color patterns” a dis-service if it got you thinking that they don’t have the “juice”. I have seen just as good as or better rolling from the checks, splashes, strawberry’s and red bars.
I have noticed that if there has been a pattern, it is that a lavender will be more likely to have an accident, but back in the 90’s, I had more red checks bust heads until I got that under control through better breeding selections.
Even now, the lavenders are showing more stability after better selection and pairings to the blues after several years of this type of matings. Few lavenders actually roll down on me at this point in my program.
What Paul says about the blues being stiffer is why I would put them onto a juiced up lavender that I wanted to breed from. This “color balancing” gives me an “outcross” without being a true outcross. I have tended to follow this pattern over the years; it has worked out well for me.
The blues do tend to get deeper over time, sometimes 12 to 18 months (and maintain their stability). I am told this is a trait from the old Pensom stuff.
I don’t know if Paul waited that long before he pulled the trigger on his blue stuff. This year I have bred a lot more blues than I ever have, I did this on Ray’s (CrystalPalace) half suggestion and half comment when he was out here looking at the birds some time ago. He knows a thing or two about the line of birds I have and knows they go back to some of the same stuff that his do and that I would probably benefit from having a few more blues in the air and the breeding loft.
If you looked into my breeding loft, you would see more Ash Red birds carrying blue than strictly Blues or Ash Red, more a sign of color balancing within the entire family, not just a few lavenders to blues. In the past you would have seen mostly the Ash Red stock, however, I am breeding this year to try and get more deep AND stable Blue Series birds for the 2008 World Cup.
I have been working with this group since 1993; we are nearing 2008 so that is about 15 years with the same group of birds. This is a lot of time to get to know this family of rollers and work with them to get what I consider to be nearer the ideal Birmingham Roller.
Finally, don’t let “color” or “color balancing” throw you Thom, it is but one tool to use when considering what rollers to pair together. Like I tell everyone who gets rollers from me, call me or email me, I am ready to listen and help anyway I can to assist you in understanding the nuances of this family and in helping you reach your goals and enjoying your Ruby Roller stock.
I hope this helps some Thom.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Sep 07, 2007 9:06 PM
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DUCKS N ROLLERS
42 posts
Sep 07, 2007
10:00 PM
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Hi all,
great posts....lotts of interesting stuff and good referance material for me.
cant wait to get my rubys !
everyone have a good weekend .
mike.
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fhtfire
1093 posts
Sep 07, 2007
11:24 PM
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It is funny how Tony and I kind of follow the same path in our selection...I have been following the Blue side a little more on the Ruby Strain. Like I said in my last post...color is meaningless to me. I look more at the performance over anything.
One thing I want to clear up is when I say on the stiff side..does not mean stiff like won't roll....they are just not as "hyper" as the others...LOL...I do not stock "stiff" birds. The little Blue check hen that I pulled was a good all around bird...it just did not pull the trigger as often as some of the other birds...this somes it up...."She was as good as any and Better than Many"..When she did jerk the chain...she was clean, crisp, fast and popped out and ALWAYS kitted. NEVER bumped or had an accident....she kind of blended in because she did not make mistakes....birds with mistakes stick out. She just had the look and performance that I like. I put her on an 04 Lavender Ruby Cock....next year she will go on one of my Baldy Ruby Cocks....so far she has some nice offspring in the kit box.
I just wanted to clear up the "stiff" comment. I used it as a broad term. A true Stiff bird does not roll..lol..she was just not as active as some of the other birds. Like I said before....I have had good birds across the boards...right now I have 2 Lavender cocks, 1 Mealy Bald Cock, 1 Red Check Bald Cock, 1 Black Hen, 1 Mealy Hen and 1 Blue check hen in the kit box. I would of had a ReD check W/F hen in the stock loft too...but a hawk had dinner the day I said I was going to pull her...and a Lavender Hen on Loan from Tony. So I have a little bit of everything in the stock loft.
Like Tony said....don't worry to much or look into the color matching to much. It is not Brain Surgery....just go with what you like and what you gut tells you. You can't go wrong with a tight family anyway...I just followed the roll and Tony and I took the same fork in the road...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Electric-man
560 posts
Sep 08, 2007
12:04 AM
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Thom, these are good, honest, and respectable questions!I hope as a moderator, I havent discouraged anyone from these type of questions or comments! I'm not hear for that!
I was asked to help keep things in check with the posting policy! Be strict on the BOP issue,and to keep post focusing on the rollers and relative issues. Other than that, disrespect and intimidation to others won't be tolerated, which is also part of the posting policy!
Thom, you seem to be a great guy,with good intentions! You are well liked and respected here! Roll on, brother!
I have some new Rubies also and wondered some of these same questions!I'm glad you asked these questions and real proud of Tony for standing up and taking these questions head on! Sure looks to me that he believes in his birds and isn't trying to hide from anything! JMO
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Val
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on Sep 08, 2007 12:07 AM
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Oldfart
122 posts
Sep 08, 2007
4:20 AM
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Hey All, Tony, Paul,Val,Mike, I'm nothing but pleased
with the RUBY birds I received from Tony. He was kind enough
to provide several different patterns to me. I have only a small kit in the air due to time,money,constraints in getting my kitbox up to speed. I have six young kitting very well and starting to tail ride and single flip. There are three more on top of the kit box almost ready to take to the air. All are brightly colored and very pleasent to watch in the air. I have been absent from rollers for some time and don't remember my birds from the past being as quick to learn new things, such as trapping, and settling into the daily routine of flying 20 to 30 min. and then landing on the loft and trapping quickly. Now that I am retired(still work some)I have more time to spend with the birds and I am truly enjoying having them.
Thanks to all!
Thom
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Oldfart
123 posts
Sep 08, 2007
6:53 AM
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Val, I'm not sure I made myself clear in the last post.
So... I think the moderators are doing a great job. It's tough to try to be fair to all and yet allow the freedom of expression required if this forum is to prosper. The past moderators worked hard and diligently through some tough times and we all benifit from their efforts. I see the same quality and diligence in the new moderators. I beleive in Tony and the moderators and am sure that everyone works very hard to keep this great site alive and well! Keep up the great work!
Thom
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bman
378 posts
Sep 09, 2007
4:05 AM
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Thom (Oldfart)
Drop me a line........rbieterman-@-sbcglobal.net
Just take out the dashes.
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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